C&R License: Use it or lose it?

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DaveBeal

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There's a rumor cited in this thread on that other THR that the BATFE may refuse to renew a C&R FFL license if it has not been used to acquire any firearms. Apparently, the form that BATFE is now sending for renewal asks how many firearms you have acquired and disposed of with your current license. Any truth to the use it or lose it rumor?

"But honey, they'll take away my license if I don't buy a gun!" :D I like this hobby more all the time.
 
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AFAIK, only SOT's are required to engage in commerce with their license to maintain it, reason being that ATF doesn't allow Title II for personal collecting.

01 & 03 FFL's are not in that tax class.
 
The reason for the question concerning the number of firearms
acquired with a C&R ffl could be intended to identify "high volume"
license holders. The next step would be increased attention to such
C&R's; in the form of an audit.
 
The reason for the question concerning the number of firearms
acquired with a C&R ffl could be intended to identify "high volume"
license holders. The next step would be increased attention to such
C&R's; in the form of an audit.
Click to expand...

I expect you're right. A C&R holder disposing of large quantities is not a collector, but a dealer, and FFL 03 is not a dealer license.
 
I'm not sure, but this may be a copy of the letters referred to above. :evil:

Dear C&R holder:
In order to more cost effectively prosecute you; please fill out this "informational" form. We will be randomly selecting people who have bought and sold more than some unspecified number of guns for prosecution. It's kind of like the lottery. Our purpose is to make gun ownership so legally difficult that we do not have to actually ban it and directly violate your constitutional rights; we'll make it so inherently legally dangerous that you'll do that for us. Thanks for your cooperation. Register now, window cells are going fast.

Have a nice day,
The ATF / NKVD (Rememeber Comrad, We're from the Government and we’re here to help)
 
Shoot, I'm in the process of filling out my renewal form. Now I gotta research this angle to see which way the question is directed. Use-or-lose or dealing.

Why would the ATF not renew if you don't buy any C&R guns? Makes no sense. The dealer perspective seems to be more plausible.
 
Yep, and that's the question: How many disposals constitute "dealing"?
What if you changed what you wanted to collect and sold all the type of firearms you had collected?
 
if you are a crook and put none on your renewal,and have bought and sold 100/1000/10,000 C&R weapons ,does Mr. Computer know how to "rat you out" to the ATF ? does SOG,Empire,CAI care if you buy one 91/30 or 25 91/30's. I've seen folks at gun shows selling 91/30's,the person claimed he wasn't a dealer or collector but had sold 200+ rifles the last couple years. that should ring someone's alarm. jwr
 
I believe they want to know how many you bought/sold to keep track of people who may be abusing their license and using it for business purposes.

They don't care if you don't use the license.

Its fine to sell off C&R guns, and even make profit, but you are supposed to be doing this to enhance your collection.
 
They don't care if you don't use the license.
Click to expand...

exactly. they just want their 30$ . if you dont use it, you simply hadnt found something you wanted, or didnt have the disposable income. you can hold a 03FFL and never even own a gun, C&R or otherwise. it entitles you to collect, it doesn't obligate you to collect.
 
I just renewed my C&R, I answered 0. I see they've already billed my credit card so I don't imagine they had a problem with me not "using" it.

Brownells and Midway certainly know I "used" it. :)
 
As the others indicate, I think they are looking for a large volume, not some minimum number (and they could prosecute for lying on the application if the applicant said he bought 10 guns and they can prove he bought 100).

A C&R license holder is specifically NOT a dealer (and can't legally be one); he might not see a collectors' item he wants during the year and so what?

But the requirement to be a real business does apply to 01 FFL dealers as well as SOT holders. It also applies to any business for income tax purposes to prevent people from using paper "business losses" to avoid paying income taxes.

Jim
 
To confirm, C&R eligible guns bought without the C&R (but recorded in the book) during the past 3 years are not counted, correct? (Got a couple Garands from the CMP while my license was active.)
 
My thanks to everyone who responded. The consensus is pretty clear: the BATFE is concerned about big numbers, not small ones. Makes sense.
 
Does that form fall under the federal law which makes it a $10,000 fine or ten year prison sentence for falsely answering any of the questions?
 
I have been told the question is for audit purposes only.
This does sound like good management and check only high volume collectors. Why check a guy that only buys one or twoold guns a year, but it could be for other reasons also. Who knows.
 
HKSW,any C&R weapon received while you have a 03 FFL is required to be logged in and out. you don't "use your license" to buy weapons. you have a C&R that allows you to buy C&R weapons. jwr
 
The problem I was jokingly getting at is that there are no firm, stated numbers or guidlines. It is arbitrary! They wont tell you that 20 is okay, or maybe its 5 per year, or up to 100. Nobody knows!
 
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