The Gun Control Debate is over. We won.

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We did not win yet.

You ever see that trick where the bad guys pretend to retreat and the good guys half-heartedly chase them over the hill to find themselves suddenly within cannon range?

If we are gaining ground, we need to work that much harder. Never let your guard down, never rest.

When we see the repeal of the NFA, we can rest.
 
Forgot to reply to this:
What....you want to arm Arab Terrorists...cuz they are people just like you and me...born equal and free?? Plllleeeze!
Make me king for a day, and I'll roll restrictions back so that anyone can order damn-near any firearm through the mail, or make a purchase at a store with nothing more than cash on the table.

So, yeah. I don't want terrorists to be armed, but I'm not at all convinced that restrictions on legal possession/sale of arms help that cause. They've already got all the explosives, RPGs, AK47's (wit' da switch) etc they need, and they've already proven then can do immeasurable harm with modified razors.

So, I like no restrictions on what anyone can purchase, own, or carry.

Don't worry though -- there's only a slight chance I'll be made king-for-a-day in this decade. ;)
 
I was going to say that gun control means using both hands, but that would be frivilous. On Monday it would have taken one individual, with the proper tool, to put an end to the whole proceeding. I own firearms, have a CPL that was just renewed, and practice regularly. I pray that I never have to take another's life with my tools.

I'm reminded of the old saying 'It's easier to get forgiveness than permission'. I think that would have applied in this situation.
 
Never, ever, give up the fight. Even if we were to get to a point where all able-bodied people were mandated to carry weapons, we couldn't slack off. There will always be anti-gunners out there and we must be vigilent to protect against them.
 
Gun control is NOT over. It's going on since the year of our Lord 1560! The U.S. are the sole single country where gun ownership is not restricted to the rich and powerful. Keep it that way!
 
"So, in 1776 every man had the right to carry a gun, as per the Declaration. Then as of December 15, 1791 (the day the bill of rights was ratified) non-citizens no longer had those rights." ????

What the Heck are you talking about? What, " right to carry a gun...as per our Declaration." There is nothing in the Declaration of Independence that refers to carrying firearms. :confused: I am talking about the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. This, I argued, was written by and for Citizens of the United States. You, for some anal reason, keeping spouting off about the Declaration of Independence. I guess you are unable to address my point. Since you want to speak to this topic...tell me, Whom do you think, "We the People" in the Declaration refer to? Humanity as a whole? Were the authors talking about their present day indentured servents? Their slaves? Peoples from China? Brazil? Don't hold back comrade...tell me what you really think.
 
Ya know Dawg, we're having a hard time communicating.
tell me, Whom do you think, "We the People" in the Declaration refer to? Humanity as a whole?
Let's revisit the text in question, ok?

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed..."

I'm going to rephrase most of the above for you: The fact that all men are created by God (or that they exist at all, should you deny God) means they have a number of innate rights, and protection of these rights is the job of just governments.

Were the authors talking about their present day indentured servents? Their slaves? Peoples from China? Brazil? Don't hold back comrade...tell me what you really think.
Well, if you're going to argue that God made Americans, but someone else made the Chinese, or South Americans, or something, then we can argue that, according to our founding document, they don't have rights.

Since the dominant meme seems to be one of either monotheism or secularism though, I think you'll find most people believe "they" have the same origin as "we" do. Which means that the Declaration of Independence recognizes them as "men."

Are we in agreement so far -- that "men," whatever their origin, are created by that same being/process that created these "American Citizens" you're so concerned with?

If so, then reference that passage again -- "all men are created equal, and are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights..."

All men.

It was radical at the time, but I'll be more radical: I'll include women too.

I'd reference the Federalist and Anti-federalist debates, but this would turn into an even bigger sidetracking of this thread. The bill of rights was added on because the anti-federalists believed that someday our government would refuse to recognize our rights, and it was hoped that explicitly listing those that are most important would help prevent this (it didn't).

I'd expect, though, that most historians of the Federalist Period would suggest that the rights covered in the Bill of Rights (and most other rights, actually) were what the framers were speaking about when they mentioned "inalienable rights."

Still, I expect you'll argue something else, and try even harder to be offensive because you think it helps your presentation (first liberal Democrat, now Communist; I'm not quite sure what comes next...)
 
I am talking about the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. This, I argued, was written by and for Citizens of the United States.

Actually the Constitution was written for our govnerment. Our right to keep and bear arms (or speak, or worship or whatever) does not come FROM the Constitution and exists for ALL HUMANS EVERYWHERE regardless of whether the US Constitution existed or continues to exist.

The Constitution was originally intended to be restraints on the power of government.

Amendment IX said:
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Amendment X said:
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.
 
As stated above we can never "win" this fight. No more than we can maintain our liberty by sticking our head in the sand. Our side must stay ever vigilant as we are eternally on "defense" against the anti-gun insurgency.

I am slightly relieved since I overestimated the response to this incident. Thankfully there is a strong 2A voice out there and it isn't just on the internet.
 
Could some historian help he out. Didn't citizens own advanced military weapons at the time of the Decoration of Independence and the Constitution? I'm thinking of that guy in NewOrlines, he practically had a standing army.... what was his name?

If that be the case..., well, I'm preaching to the quire .
 
Didn't citizens own advanced military weapons at the time of the Decoration of Independence and the Constitution?

Andrew Jackson? Actually some citizens owned weapons superior to those carried by the military, German master gunsmiths that settled in Kentucky created arguably the finest rifle of the time, private merchants routinely had cannons aboard their ships, and many southern plantations located on rivers had cannons to protect their land. Many early circulations included instructions on making french grenades, casting bullets and military tactics. Americans often had bayonets distributed by their local sepratists and blacksmiths, this combined with the effective, but "unchivalrous" guerilla tactics helped to win the war.
 
The NRA will never send out a letter saying "things are OK and we can relax for a while" because that won't generate donations. They will always tell you that radical gun control is just around the corner and only being stopped by their efforts.
Too true.

My copy of American Rifleman arrived yesterday, with an article that mentioned the Parker decision in DC. My recollection is that the case was brought and ENTIRELY funded by a private attorney at the Cato Institute, and that the NRA was opposed to seeing the suit go forward.

Now that the decision was favourable, their spin would have you believe that they were single-handedly responsible for the win. Just goes to prove what my old boss used to say: "Everything you see in print is true ... unless you have first-hand knowledge of the facts."
 
... Politicians are recognizing that "Gun Control Debates" are costing the parties Swing Sates on a National Level. Therefore Gun Control is losing ground in the National Platform of either party.
Sadly, that only means they aren't talking to us about it. Don't think for a nanosecond that they aren't still plotting about it behind closed doors.
 
I think more people are learning that your school, workplace, city, county/parish, state, and federal government cannot protect you all of the time. While it's a bad situation that we have to worry about personal safety, it is reality.

Only you can prevent you from becoming a victim. We have to continue to work for protection of the second amendment.
 
There's a pretty incredible memo circulating in Washington from top Democratic strategists (yes, everything, EVERYTHING, leaks!) that says, essentially, SHUT UP...any move for gun control right now jeaprodizes the 2008 Presidential election.

We haven't won...yet...but there is a fear among our enemies that if we fully mobilize, a la 1994 or 2008, we can stop the Dems.

Amen!

Michael B
 
Guys. Keep one thing in mind.

The constitution does not matter to Joe Sixpack. Or Mary Soccermom. Every time we get into a lengthy argument nitpicking through 200+ year old verbiage, that's effort that we could use on our congresscritters and news media.

That said, I think that their lack of reaction REALLY says something. We haven't won. Far from it. But I think we've got a few of the islands in the Pacific, Africa, Italy, and now we're gonna be faced with the hard part.
 
I think the general media consensus about gun control after the VT incident is: "A few people want stronger gun control after the shooting, but most people and most members of Congress aren't interested in pursuing it right now."

I see the same tone on many liberal discussion sites. After a high-profile shooting, boards like Kos would usually have a few pro-RKBA members fighting an avalanche of antis. That's how it was, for instance, after the Amish school shooting. Now the two sides are both out in force and seem evenly matched, and the antis are making concessions to the pro-gun side.

One thing the pro-RKBA side did right after this incident was to come right out and say that CCW in the classroom would have prevented the tragedy. Promoting more gun rights instead of just saying "no more restrictions!" really caught the anti side off guard.
 
Interestingly, the most of founding fathers were not religous in the sense we would use today (they sorta had their own beliefs and shyed away from organized religion, hence the seperation between church and state). For example the "In God we Trust" was added to the dollar bill in the 50s. I'm not sure if I someone was trying to say something against those who hold different viewpoints on religion. If not I apologize, I wasn't sure if someone was saying atheists/agnostics deny mans existence? or just that they deny/aren't sure about God's existence

That said, regardless of their beliefs, I will agree we were all created by the same being/process (well I def. believe in evolution, but am not sure weither there is a God that put that process in place.) And I do feel that all mankind should have the inable rights to free speach, religion (or none if they so choose), to bear arms, and have a fair trial if accussed, etc. So I feel as long as an alien is here legally, and is not a convicted felon (we should have some way of looking into this, most countries would share this info; if not maybe we need some other evaluation but we have to be careful not too make it too imposing and therefore step on the 2nd ammendment) they too should be able to bear arms. And terrorists don't need guns if that is what people feel, as I stated in a previous post, when someone is on the offense there are many other weapons that can be just as deadly if not dealier than firearms (explosives, etc.). It is on the defensive or in a military setting they are truly needed.
 
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