The interesting things about the 1873 Colt Peacemaker cylinder screw

[JimGnitecki]

In my Google research, and now in my own experience actually shooting my 2 Cimarron replicates of the Cold “old” (1873) design SA revolver, I have found that Colt "screwed-up" the screw arrangement for holding the reolver's cylinder in place!

The 6-shot cylinder rides on a rod that is inserted from the front(under the barrel), through the axis hole in the cylinder, and into a matching hole in the back of the frame, located under the hammer. The rod is secured in place by a screw that threads at an angle through the front bottom of the frame into a groove in the shaft. The screw in the groove secures the shaft in position.

The head on this screw not only has a screwdriver slot, but also has a knurled circumference, so that it can be inserted or removed by HAND. However, when you insert it by hand, and tighten it only by hand, it will tend to unthreadnand eventually fall out after as few as 10 to 15 rounds fired.

Also unfortunately, the slot requires a special “gun screwdriver” in a specific “gun” size and specific hollow-cut shape (NOT the same hollow-cut shape as a JIS screwdriver) to tighten it with a screwdriver. The best quality one is made by Grace, a tool manufacturer in The U.S. Any ordinary screwdriver won’t fit properly and will deform the slot. Any multi-head screwdriver set will have an unacceptable ability to “slip” out the slot and mar the firearm.

I did not have the Grace screwdriver set (I ordered a set, because no one tells you what specific gun SIZE screwdriver you need for that specific screw). So, I used the knurls. However, when the screw is tightened by hand only, it will not stay in position, and backs out. It backs out appreciably after only maybe 10 to 15 shots! I had to keep retightening it on both revolvers during my 2 range sessions so far with them! If you don’t retighten it this way, because of its angled slope, it WILL fall out completely apparently, leaving the shaft unsecured.

So, I was eagerly awaiting arrival of the Grace “Peacemaker” set of screwdrivers (no kidding - a specific 7-piece screwdriver set!). Fortunately, the U.S. source, via Amazon.ca, shipped it right away AND both Canada Customs and Canada Post moved it along at a truly incredible rate, with it now expected to arrive today, only 8 days after I found and ordered it.

I can’t imagine how delighted both Old West lawmen and gunslingers were with this feature and the requirement for the special screwdriver.

The Grace screwdriver set arrived today, but that made apparent another surprise!

The screwhead in question has a diameter of 5/16”. The slot on it runs across the full diameter of the head, so is also 5/16” long.

However, the ONLY size of Grace gun screwdriver that fits the width of the slot is the "No.3”. That size fits the slot perfectly - goes in no problem with no play at all. However, the blade of a No. 3 screwdriver is only 1/8” wide!

I figure Colt’s logic must have gone something like this:

- The knurled head of the screw must be large diameter so that someone can insert and remove it by HAND easily, as it must be removed to disassemble and clean the revolver and then reinstalled again when reassembling the revolver. So, make the screw head a wide diameter.

- However, you don’t want a ham handed owner to screw the screw in with too much torque when using a screwdriver (which the owner will do once he/she discovers the screw otherwise falls out during firing). So, make the slot in the screw long but narrow enough to force use of the tiny No. 3 screwdriver versus a larger screwdriver.

I thought life was simple in the 1870s, but maybe not.

Colt later replaced the angled screw with a horizontal spring-loaded “crosspin” that you depress with your finger (no tool needed, and no potential for the cross pin falling out!). But, Colt did this only after over 20 years after they released the first version!

The other “screw-up” in the original design was that the screw was also supposed to act as a sort of “storage safety”. The shaft actually has TWO grooves in it. One is for the regular “usable” position. The 2nd groove positions the shaft instead so that it prevents the hammer from actually striking a primer in the chamber under the hammer! You can store the revolver in this “safety on” position. But, for the revolver to become actually usable, SLOWLY, you must then, either by hand or with a reliably handy “gun” screwdriver of the correct No. 3 size and shape, unscrew the screw, move the shaft forward PRECISELY the correct amount to engage the other groove, screw in the screw, and then aim and fire the handgun. By then, the perp or the bear will almost surely have gotten you!

I have never before owned a Peacemaker replica. This is proving to be more interesting than I thought it would be.

Jim G

 

[ontarget]

I could be wrong, but I don't think Colt ever put that stupid safety feature on their guns.
I'm pretty sure that was a modern lawyer thing.
Load 5 and rest the hammer on an empty chamber and forget about that safety notch in your cylinder pin.
I also doubt that our replica SAAs use the same screws as the original.

 

[JimGnitecki]

I could be wrong, but I don't think Colt ever put that stupid safety feature on their guns.
I'm pretty sure that was a modern lawyer thing.
Load 5 and rest the hammer on an empty chamber and forget about that safety notch in your cylinder pin.
I also doubt that our replica SAAs use the same screws as the original.

If this crazy "safety" feature was a "modern" invention, do the original actual Colt SAAs have their cylinder mounting hole in the frame as a "blind" hole that stops before it goes right through the frame? On my Cimarron replicas, the hole goes right through the frame, so that when the rod comes out the rear of the frame slightly (when in the 2nd groove in the rod), it prevents the hammer from reaching the primer simply because it contacts the hammer when the hammer is still 1/8" out from the frame.

And yes, no sane person would actually try to use this "safety" except maybe to make the firearm unshootable if a child or other unauthorized person finds one in its storae location.

Jim G

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Colt never used a cylinder pin with two grooves.

That is a feature of some imported replicas of the Single Action Army, mostly those made by Uberti in Italy.

In order to get them imported into the US, Uberti had to provide some sort of a 'safety feature'. Previous to the two groove design Uberti used a small device built into the hammer which acted as a hammer block.

Yes, the two groove design is a useless safety feature. With the typical horizontal spring loaded latch it would require two hands to depress the latch and pull the cylinder pin forward so the latch engaged the front groove. Sometimes at a CAS match a shooter will forget to disengage the 'safety', and he will drop the hammer a couple of times before he realizes his mistake.

I only have one Uberti replica of the SAA these days, and it did come with a two groove cylinder pin. I discarded that pin and replaced it with a standard pin with only one groove.

Colts with the angled screw facing up to retain the cylinder pin are said to have a 'black powder' frame. I will have to look it up, but I believe the current design with the spring loaded latch first appeared around 1892 or so. The term Black Powder Frame is somewhat misleading, because the Colt Single Action Army was not factory warrantied for Smokeless powder until 1900, so those Colts with the modern style latch design made before 1900 should not be fired with Smokeless powder.

The original design of the angled screw had no knurling. Only a screw slot. The screw head was only slightly proud of the frame and could only be tightened or loosened with a small screw driver.

 

[Zygodactyl]

Back in the 80's I took a Smith and Wesson Armorer's' course. The instructor said don't waste your money on expensive custom screw drivers. Go to the local hardware store and buy an assortment of cheap screw drivers and grind and file the blades to an exact fit for the screw in question. He had us grind screw drivers in the course to fit the S&W screws.

 

[Jim Watson]

Brownells sells a grindstone the right diameter to cut their tip hollowgrind and thin a screwdriver bit to fit. Of course they would like you to buy tips to modify from them but you don't have to.

 

[DukeConnor]

Look in the box for the other screw.

 

[JimGnitecki]

Colt never used a cylinder pin with two grooves.

That is a feature of some imported replicas of the Single Action Army, mostly those made by Uberti in Italy.

In order to get them imported into the US, Uberti had to provide some sort of a 'safety feature'. Previous to the two groove design Uberti used a small device built into the hammer which acted as a hammer block.

Yes, the two groove design is a useless safety feature. With the typical horizontal spring loaded latch it would require two hands to depress the latch and pull the cylinder pin forward so the latch engaged the front groove. Sometimes at a CAS match a shooter will forget to disengage the 'safety', and he will drop the hammer a couple of times before he realizes his mistake.

I only have one Uberti replica of the SAA these days, and it did come with a two groove cylinder pin. I discarded that pin and replaced it with a standard pin with only one groove.

Colts with the angled screw facing up to retain the cylinder pin are said to have a 'black powder' frame. I will have to look it up, but I believe the current design with the spring loaded latch first appeared around 1892 or so. The term Black Powder Frame is somewhat misleading, because the Colt Single Action Army was not factory warrantied for Smokeless powder until 1900, so those Colts with the modern style latch design made before 1900 should not be fired with Smokeless powder.

The original design of the angled screw had no knurling. Only a screw slot. The screw head was only slightly proud of the frame and could only be tightened or loosened with a small screw driver.

Thanks for the clarifications! I am very new to the Colt SAA revolver, and the more I look into it, the more intriguing its individual features become.

Jim G

 

[BobWright]

Just as a matter of historical interest, that two position base pin was riginally known as the "Swiss Safe" safety. It was introduced on the Hammerli made Virginian, imported by Interarms. Since then it has been used on many Italian made copies of the Colt SAA. And, as has been pointed out, totally useless as a safety.

Bob Wright

 

[BobWright]

And.............as a side note, old timers used to place a drop or two of spar varnish (natural resin) on the screw threads to hold them in place. This held the screws tight but would easily "break free" with just sight effort. And gun dedicated screw drivers were unheard of back then except for knowing gunsmiths.

Bob Wright

 

[Mizar]

Grinding screwdriver tips to fit is an easy task that doesn't require either special tools, or skills - learn to do it and you may spare yourself some unnecessary expenses in the future. And one should really not expect a 19th century technology to follow industrial standards that were set some 50-60 years ago (screwdriver sizes)...

 

[JimGnitecki]

Would applying some BLUE (not red) Loctite to that screw be a good idea or not? I know the Loctite would help keep the screw from backing out, BUT would it then make installing and removing the screw hard enough that the 1/8" wide No. 3 screwdriver would start to chew up the slot in the screw?

Jim G

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

I had to search through my hard drive, but I found this photo.

This is the style of hammer block that Uberti was using before they started using the two position cylinder pin. I had an Uberti years ago with one of these. I forget exactly how it worked, it was a long time ago.








This is my set of hollow ground screw driver tips.I do not own a Colt with the Blackpowder style frame, but if I did I'm sure there would be a tip in this set that would fit the screw slot.






By the way, the modern spring loaded transverse cylinder pin latch is not without its problems. Originally available on some Colts in 1892, by 1896 it became a standard feature.

But unless properly fitted at the factory, the latch can fail and allow the cylinder pin to slide forward under heavy recoil.

Trust me on this.

That is why there are after market spring kits available with extra strength springs for the latch.

 

[JimGnitecki]

Grinding screwdriver tips to fit is an easy task that doesn't require either special tools, or skills - learn to do it and you may spare yourself some unnecessary expenses in the future. And one should really not expect a 19th century technology to follow industrial standards that were set some 50-60 years ago (screwdriver sizes)...

I am hesitant to grind any screwdriver tip because that screwdriver then will be too loose in a "normal" screwhead for which it was designed. I also THINK (not sure though) that screwdriver tips are hardened when manufactured, precisely to prevent them becoming chewed up with normal use. (Unless you buy a really cheap screwdriver!).

It's hard to believe that Colt, as a professional manufacturing company even back in the 1870s, would not be using "standardized " size screws and screwdrivers, even if those screws and screwdrivers were made to older standards versus modern standards. Did people really just make their own sizes??

Jim G

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Would applying some BLUE (not red) Loctite to that screw be a good idea or not? I know the Loctite would help keep the screw from backing out, BUT would it then make installing and removing the screw hard enough that the 1/8" wide No. 3 screwdriver would start to chew up the slot in the screw?

An old trick is to apply a bit of fingernail polish to the threads. First, remove all oils from the screw and threads with a solvent such as denatured alcohol. Then paint a little bit of nail polish onto the threads of the screw. This should keep it snug but easy to remove if wanted.

 

[JimGnitecki]

An old trick is to apply a bit of fingernail polish to the threads. First, remove all oils from the screw and threads with a solvent such as denatured alcohol. Then paint a little bit of nail polish onto the threads of the screw. This should keep it snug but easy to remove if wanted.

Ah, good. Neither me or my wife use nail polish, but Blue Loctite SHOULD be a good solution then.

Jim G

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

I am hesitant to grind any screwdriver tip because that screwdriver then will be too loose in a "normal" screwhead for which it was designed. I also THINK (not sure though) that screwdriver tips are hardened when manufactured, precisely to prevent them becoming chewed up with normal use. (Unless you buy a really cheap screwdriver!).

It's hard to believe that Colt, as a professional manufacturing company even back in the 1870s, would not be using "standardized " size screws and screwdrivers, even if those screws and screwdrivers were made to older standards versus modern standards. Did people really just make their own sizes??

Jim G

The screw driver tips in the Brownells set I posted are hardened. Plus, Brownells will replace any tip that bends or breaks free of charge. That is why I like them more than any other brand.

Colt and other firearm manufacturers were making their own screws long before the modern day standardized screws we are familiar with existed.

Colt made their first revolver, the Paterson model, in 1836, if memory serves.

It was not until World War One (1914-1918) that industrial nations began thinking about standardizing screws.

Before that there were many different standards for screws.

The Unified National Thread Standard was adopted in the US in the 1920s.

Put on a face mask so no one will recognize you and buy a small container of clear nail polish. One bottle will last for years.

 

[Mizar]

Any decent quality screwdriver is hardened all the way through. And by "grinding" it I don't necessary mean to press it with passion on a bench grinder until it turns red-hot - a simple medium diamond sharpening stone and a little bit of elbow grease will do. Sometimes one must grind a screwdriver/bit not only for a specific firearm, but for a specific screw - just mark it accordingly. And last - there was a standard "back then" on screw sizes and threads, just not the one you want it to be. Just fit your screwdrivers/bits to the specific screw heads and don't make it a bigger problem than it is.

 

[doubleh]

Ah, good. Neither me or my wife use nail polish, but Blue Loctite SHOULD be a good solution then.

Jim G

NO, blue loctite is made for 1/4" and up bolts, not little screws. Fingernail polish works well for these as mentioned. If you just have to use loctite get the lower strength purple stuff. I know everyone and their dog rccommends blue loctite on the forums but it is unnecessary and often a problem on small screws.

 

[JimGnitecki]

NO, blue loctite is made for 1/4" and up bolts, not little screws. Fingernail polish works well for these as mentioned. If you just have to use loctite get the lower strength purple stuff. I know everyone and their dog rccommends blue loctite on the forums but it is unnecessary and often a problem on small screws.

Good to know! Fingernail polish does have one other advantage. If you want to later get rid of it, you can do so with Acetone. I keep Acetone around anyway for pre-cleaning workpieces before TIG welding them.

Jim G

 

[.45Coltguy]

Colt never used a cylinder pin with two grooves.

That is a feature of some imported replicas of the Single Action Army, mostly those made by Uberti in Italy.

In order to get them imported into the US, Uberti had to provide some sort of a 'safety feature'. Previous to the two groove design Uberti used a small device built into the hammer which acted as a hammer block.

Yes, the two groove design is a useless safety feature. With the typical horizontal spring loaded latch it would require two hands to depress the latch and pull the cylinder pin forward so the latch engaged the front groove. Sometimes at a CAS match a shooter will forget to disengage the 'safety', and he will drop the hammer a couple of times before he realizes his mistake.

I only have one Uberti replica of the SAA these days, and it did come with a two groove cylinder pin. I discarded that pin and replaced it with a standard pin with only one groove.

Colts with the angled screw facing up to retain the cylinder pin are said to have a 'black powder' frame. I will have to look it up, but I believe the current design with the spring loaded latch first appeared around 1892 or so. The term Black Powder Frame is somewhat misleading, because the Colt Single Action Army was not factory warrantied for Smokeless powder until 1900, so those Colts with the modern style latch design made before 1900 should not be fired with Smokeless powder.

The original design of the angled screw had no knurling. Only a screw slot. The screw head was only slightly proud of the frame and could only be tightened or loosened with a small screw driver.

Where would I find a single notch cylinder pin for my Pietta? Thank you.

 

[doubleh]

Good to know! Fingernail polish does have one other advantage. If you want to later get rid of it, you can do so with Acetone. I keep Acetone around anyway for pre-cleaning workpieces before TIG welding them.

Jim G

If you are worried that the acetone could get on something close by that it might damage use acetone free fingernail polish remover. Since I am married I have access to both. I use the latter to remove oils from my plastic readers I use for close up work.

 

[1KPerDay]

Ah, good. Neither me or my wife use nail polish, but Blue Loctite SHOULD be a good solution then.

Jim G

Try purple if blue is too strong.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Where would I find a single notch cylinder pin for my Pietta? Thank you.

The easiest thing to do is to simply grind away the rear of a two groove pin, so it no longer protrudes back far enough to block the hammer. The you just keep the pin inserted all the way, in the forward groove.

Sometimes this pin is called the Cylinder Pin, sometimes the Cylinder Base Pin, if you are googling them.



This is a Belt Mountain pin that I substituted for the two groove pin in my Cattleman. Notice there is a flange near the front of the pin. There is a clearance cut in the flange for the barrel.






At the bottom of this photo is a Belt Mountain pin showing the other side of the pin. Instead of a groove running around the pin, there is a horizontal cut that engages the cylinder pin latch.This is actually a better design than the original pin because it provides more surface area for the latch to engage than a groove cut around the pin, like the Ruger pin shown at the top of the photo. The clearance cut for the barrel is necessary because a Belt Mountain pin needs to be inserted the same way every time, rather than in random orientation the way a traditional pin would be inserted. Belt Mountain offers cylinder pins with a small locking allen screw, but in my experience that is unnecessary. You need to have a tiny allen wrench with you in the field if you want to remove the cylinder. I find thre allen screw is unnecessary.




Here is a link to the Belt Mountain web page for Base Pins.Click on ORDER TODAY to see all the different styles. Again, I do not think the locking screw is necessary.

https://beltmountain.com/base-pins/


Peacemaker Specialists is another place to buy a Base Pin. They have quite a selection. If you are not sure which Generation pin to order for your Pietta, call them and ask. I'm sure they will know.

http://www.peacemakerspecialists.com/

 

[.45Coltguy]

Thank You DJ, I'll be in contact with them very soon.