The IRONY of ammo stashes.

[Mullo98]

That kind of sums up the way I shoot these days...except I'm a LONE GUNMAN! ;-)

Here and there I'll squeeze off a few shots in the woods with no one around and thats that. Then I'm silent for weeks at a time. I'd love to shoot more but it is what it is. I buy a few boxes of 38, 9x19, 9x18, 7.62x51 and x39 when it's a relatively good deal...and I just make sure I'm not shooting more than I'm buying. Actually through the pandemic I've increased by several hundred rounds in those categories. I haven't added any new calibers since the pandemic started, although I've looked at a few.

That's the way I've carried on. Just a few shots here and there to make sure it'll still go bang and that I can still put em pretty much where I want em.

I'm kind of curious if the pandemic has or will put any calibers which were formerly fairly common into obscurity.

My main issue with that is if a caliber that relies on imports gets cutoff or a caliber suddenly becomes banned. Then you'll only have a handful of rounds to use. You don't have to dump 300 rounds a go or have a whole room just for ammo..but I'll help to have a few boxes stowed away

 

[aaaaa]

I have 1250 rounds, mostly 38 Special, a lot of 9mm and some .357 Magnum. I am thinking that my next order should include some 44 Special and 44 Magnum. I don't have a gun to shoot the 44 out of but if I get the ammo, then I will need the gun, right? Makes sense to me.

 

[jdsingleshot]

I don't like to admit it, but having lived a while, I think today's prices are not out of line. $30 for a box of .30-30 would have been a little under $5 in 1972 money. That seems to be less than we were paying then. My only problem is that in retirement, my income is more like amount I got in 1972 as well. The good thing is I have lots of .22s and plenty of centerfire components plus lead and molds. No worries here.

 

[BigBL87]

I have bought it garage sales and pawn shops. But, finds are few.
Estate sale are a better source. Plus, you can get a complete set up our, at least, several pieces.

Go to a LGS that had reloading equipment. Study it. Ask how it works. YouTube is your friend. You may decide to buy new.
A Lee turret press is about $100 new.

So, bear with me here (and if the OP wants me to get out and discuss this in another thread, please let me know)...

Would something like this get me most of what I'd need to get started?

https://www.natchezss.com/lee-classic-turret-press-kit.html

I know I'd need something to clean the cases, I'd probably go with an ultrasonic cleaner. I'm sure some stuff for each specific caliber as well. Just trying to gauge how much I'd really need to invest. The calibers I'd be looking at are pretty standard (380, 9mm, 38 Special, 357 Mag, 45 ACP, .223, .243, .308). Just kind of exploring the idea now that you all have me thinking.

 

[jmorris]

Seems the more ammo I am able to stockpile for a certain firearm the less I want to shoot it to preserve what I have.

At a recent gun show in Muncy, PA I was amazed at how much ammo prices have increased, $75 for a box of Winchester 7mm08.

It is almost as if the security and joy of having lots of ammo is surpassing the joy of shooting. Bad in my opinion.

Collecting things not for use but just the sake of amassing as large a pile of it as you can? Sounds familiar. https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/hoarding-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20356056

 

[mshootnit]

I am doing my part to sequester large amounts of lead from our environment.

 

[CoalTrain49]

I feel the same way about reloading components...

I've been postponing buying a new rifle because of a LR primer shortage. I never have used LR primers in the past and reluctant to buy any now because of the price. All of the primers I have were less than $40/1000, in some cases, a lot less. I understand that we may have hit the low price for a lot of things but that doesn't make it any easier to fork over the money.

 

[CoalTrain49]

I have 1250 rounds, mostly 38 Special, a lot of 9mm and some .357 Magnum. I am thinking that my next order should include some 44 Special and 44 Magnum. I don't have a gun to shoot the 44 out of but if I get the ammo, then I will need the gun, right? Makes sense to me.

A good plan is to buy the ammo first, or the components if you reload. You can always sell those down the road if you don't use them. Buying a firearm without knowing where the ammo will come from is a lot like buying a car without knowing if fuel is available. We're in uncharted water chief.

 

[Hartkopf]

I am doing my part to sequester large amounts of lead from our environment.

Well said. Save the environment from all that evil lead by stockpiling ammo.

I hereby identify as an environmentalist.

 

[Offhand McFlan]

My main issue with that is if a caliber that relies on imports gets cutoff or a caliber suddenly becomes banned. Then you'll only have a handful of rounds to use. You don't have to dump 300 rounds a go or have a whole room just for ammo..but I'll help to have a few boxes stowed away

A number of calibers I've wanted to add but have at least temporarily abandon the thought of are:

6.5 Carcano (extremely rare and very expensive)

7mm-08 (somewhat rare and moderately expensive... But arguably a caliber I'd like to have more than almost any other)

6.5x55 (I like it but obviously creedmoor is simply currently the better choice, as x55 somewhat rare and moderately expensive). That's a real shame because I really would prefer a pristine swedish mauser over anything modern. The only substitute for me would be a cz550 in Creedmoor. Luvvit!)

.444 Marlin (kiss it goodbye unless you reload, methinks)

.257 Roberts (probably tied with 7mm-08 for me... But again, quite rare and somewhat expensive

These are all calibers that I've been interested in and curious about for quite a few years but just never managed to grab a rifle chambered for them. At this point it would seem to be a bad idea.

7mm Mauser seems to be more common than 7mm-08 and creedmoor has far surpassed 6.5 x 55 in popularity. And .45-70 although somewhat rare and expensive is obviously far more available and easy to reload than 444 Marlin. C'est la vie.

 

[Seedy Character]

So, bear with me here (and if the OP wants me to get out and discuss this in another thread, please let me know)...

Would something like this get me most of what I'd need to get started?

https://www.natchezss.com/lee-classic-turret-press-kit.html

I know I'd need something to clean the cases, I'd probably go with an ultrasonic cleaner. I'm sure some stuff for each specific caliber as well. Just trying to gauge how much I'd really need to invest. The calibers I'd be looking at are pretty standard (380, 9mm, 38 Special, 357 Mag, 45 ACP, .223, .243, .308). Just kind of exploring the idea now that you all have me thinking.

That would get everything but the dies, to have you able to load. Dies can be obtained 1 set it a time, to spread out the cash outlay.

Start with .38/.357, something easy, to get your feets wet. Then add dies by what you shoot mostly or have trouble finding.

Many loaders never tumble, just a wipe down to clean brass. It is fine, if you are reloading your brass. Range pickup brass sometimes needs a good cleaning to inspect.

Wet tumblers and ss pins will cost more than a vibratory bowl and walnut media (I prefer).
Frankford Arsenal, Lyman, RCBS, all make them, even HF

https://www.frankfordarsenal.com/ca...s/quick-n-ez-case-tumbler/855020.html#start=1

 

[Seedy Character]

A number of calibers I've wanted to add but have at least temporarily abandon the thought of are:

6.5 Carcano (extremely rare and very expensive)

7mm-08 (somewhat rare and moderately expensive... But arguably a caliber I'd like to have more than almost any other)

6.5x55 (I like it but obviously creedmoor is simply currently the better choice, as x55 somewhat rare and moderately expensive). That's a real shame because I really would prefer a pristine swedish mauser over anything modern. The only substitute for me would be a cz550 in Creedmoor. Luvvit!)

.444 Marlin (kiss it goodbye unless you reload, methinks)

.257 Roberts (probably tied with 7mm-08 for me... But again, quite rare and somewhat expensive

These are all calibers that I've been interested in and curious about for quite a few years but just never managed to grab a rifle chambered for them. At this point it would seem to be a bad idea.

7mm Mauser seems to be more common than 7mm-08 and creedmoor has far surpassed 6.5 x 55 in popularity. And .45-70 although somewhat rare and expensive is obviously far more available and easy to reload than 444 Marlin. C'est la vie.

7-08 is easier to find than .243. I buy 7-08 brass to resize to .260 Rem.

.260 Rem better cartridge than CM. Equals the x55 and not a proprietary brass. (Same problem a Carcano.

.257R can be formed by resizing 7x57. I make 7x57 from .270 brass.

 

[Bazoo]

I use an old lee challenger I got for $40 last year off the bargain shelf at a local gun store. It replaced a Lyman Spartan I got off eBay. I say shop around for used stuff.


I also say, buy primers at whatever they go for when you see them. Price was $40/1000 but now it’s $75-$100/1000. But price of ammo went up accordingly.

I remember when Winchester 9mm was 11.99/100 at Walmart and a box of 30-30 was 12.99. Primers were $25/1000 back then. I didn’t reload then so maybe the price was lower than I recall. I remember getting 2 bricks of federal 550 22lr for 19.00 after tax at Walmart. I seen thunderbolts on the shelf for $50 the other day.

Anyways, the point I guess is, for me, reloading is the cheapest way to build a stockpile of ammo. I don’t have loaded 30-30 stockpiled. I have components for it. So I continually load it as needed or desired. The key is, if I added a caliber, like 7-08, my large rifle primers and powder will also work in that caliber. I was using it in 30-06 some but I got hard up and sold the -06.

And to add a new caliber to an existing loading setup, dies are going to be $30 that’s it unless you cast, then a mould ($30-$100) and sizer ($25).

 

[Offhand McFlan]

I realize availability may vary a lot by location. I haven't seen any of those you mentioned in my neck of the woods lately, not in abundance nor for a good price Walmart had 7 mm 08 occasionally before the pandemic but not since. 243 was one of their Staples along with 308, 3006 and 22-250, .243 etc.

I agree that both 260 Remington and 6.5x55 are better than creedmoor by a bit. Creedmoor is so bloody common now it's hard not to just give in and buy a firearm chamber for that instead. In 5 years I really have my doubts about the others making a comeback.. I sure haven't seen them much of late.

 

[BigBL87]

That would get everything but the dies, to have you able to load. Dies can be obtained 1 set it a time, to spread out the cash outlay.

Start with .38/.357, something easy, to get your feets wet. Then add dies by what you shoot mostly or have trouble finding.

Many loaders never tumble, just a wipe down to clean brass. It is fine, if you are reloading your brass. Range pickup brass sometimes needs a good cleaning to inspect.

Wet tumblers and ss pins will cost more than a vibratory bowl and walnut media (I prefer).
Frankford Arsenal, Lyman, RCBS, all make them, even HF

https://www.frankfordarsenal.com/ca...s/quick-n-ez-case-tumbler/855020.html#start=1

For better or worse, now you have me looking into it pretty hard. I'd have to add another work bench downstairs, either to be my reloading bench or to move stuff currently on the work bench and turn THAT into my reloading bench. Probably the latter, since that bench is nice and solid would be able to mount the press no problem. Already have a vise and bench grinder mounted to it. That'll be my first step in that direction.

 

[jdsingleshot]

I'm very happy with my calibers. They have a distinct family resemblance (they look similar) .30-06, 7X57, .222, and .30-30, .25-20. Also have .22LR, of course. I could get along with just the .22 and the 7X57. The latter cartridge has killed pretty much everything from squirrels to elephants (I didn't kill elephants, but Bell did). Mine killed a lot of woodchucks before I built the .222.

 

[Catpop]

The real irony of ammo stashes is cartridge deterioration. Keep it too long and you may find what you saved up and didn’t shoot has become unstable.
And not just milsurp, but the good stuff made by the big name brands.
Doesn’t hurt to pull a sample of old stocks before you shoot it.

 

[Riomouse911]

I feel the same way about reloading components...

Every time I go to my reloading shelf to crank out some rounds, I swear I look at my slowly dwindling primer shelf and feel like I’m looking into the eyes of a dying dog.

Well, it is maybe not that bad, but I do feel pretty guilty looking at the open spaces on the shelf that used to hold many boxes of primers.

Stay safe.

 

[35 Whelen]

The up front cost, if you don't shoot alot, is a pretty big barrier to entry. Just reading around online for recommendations for a basic no frills setup that's actually worth it and won't be a pain, most setups I'd be looking at $500-800 minimum. For someone who shoots less than once a month (didn't at all last year outside of my CCL requalification), it would be quite a long time before I made my money back on that if I ever did.

The safety aspect makes me a little nervous, but I felt the same way when I first started carrying so I imagine I could get over it.

Internet banter is what has made handloading dangerous. When I was about 13 years old my dad put me on the 4-H trap shooting team. He also told me if I wanted to compete, I'd need to load my own ammunition. So he bought me a used Texas single stage press and all the components, gave me one of those freebie paperback reloading pamphlets by Hercules, and turned me loose. While I was still a teenager I took up loading for rifles and handguns. Point is, if a 13 year old can do it, so can most adults. I say "most" because a person who can't reload safely will likely be the same person who can't be trusted with power tools or a book of matches and a can of gasoline.

What simple for some is complex to others. Same way quantum physics is easily understood to some and others can't wrap their head around the basic principles.
How much did cost you to buy a press and the rest of the gear needed JUST to start reloading. Then the primers, powders, bullets themselves and the brass. Combine that with the possibility of making a bench for that if not a new workspace entirely. As well as the time needed to actually make reloads.

That's a hefty price for many. Yeah, I know in the long run, you'll save more but that upfront price once again can just be spend on a crate or two of x39 or 400 rounds of 357.

For some reason, new handloaders want to buy "kits", which are usually expensive. The better choice is to buy good used equipment. My single stage press is an RCBS that my father bought in the late '60's or early '70s. It will never wear out and 50 years from now someone else will be using it. My most used press in an old Lyman turret press that was made in the '60's. I could buy a newer, prettier press, but why? This one has been cycled tens of thousands of times and shows no sign of quitting. Same with powder scales and measures.

Check garage sales, estate sale, pawn shops and buy.

My Rock Chucker is 45 years old. Not shiny and new, but works exactly the same.

Bought a Pacific press from a pawn shops for $40. It is 70 years old.

Single stage presses are simple, chunks of steel.

A set of dies can be had for $20-$40.
A small digital scale is in same price range.

No other equipment is REQUIRED.
Lots of other equipment can be slowly added to enhance your loading, but is not required.

Buying components is not different than buying ammo. Save brass, buy powder, bullets, primers.

Buying a new, progressive or massive kit can be expensive. Cost prohibitive is a cop out. Some people don't WANT to reload. Pure and simple.

Yep. My favorite excuse is "I don't have time.", which is usually posted on internet forums by dudes who spend hours sitting in their recliner thumbing a phone or watching sports on TV. We make time for the things we want to do.

Yes, again, quality used equipment and improvising. I remember as a kid in the '60's watching my dad lube cases. His lube pad was a washcloth stapled to a piece of 1x4. Even today, I don't think he owns a brass tumbler, he just wipes the lube off of the cases.

You have to remember that quality used reloading equipment, bought at good prices, will not depreciate. So if you decide not to reload, just sell your stuff. Case in point, there have been a few times I bought custom bullet molds in order to cast oddball bullets. So I cast several hundred bullets, clean up the molds then sell then for within a few dollars of the price paid new.

So, bear with me here (and if the OP wants me to get out and discuss this in another thread, please let me know)...

Would something like this get me most of what I'd need to get started?

https://www.natchezss.com/lee-classic-turret-press-kit.html

I know I'd need something to clean the cases, I'd probably go with an ultrasonic cleaner. I'm sure some stuff for each specific caliber as well. Just trying to gauge how much I'd really need to invest. The calibers I'd be looking at are pretty standard (380, 9mm, 38 Special, 357 Mag, 45 ACP, .223, .243, .308). Just kind of exploring the idea now that you all have me thinking.

If I were starting today as a new handloader, I'd first get a good used manual (The recent Lyman reloading handbooks, 48th, 49th, 50th, are my favorite and can be found for around $25, but most any brand will do) and read the front sections that explain the steps of handloading. Avoid asking watching YouTube videos and asking "What do I need" on forums, because 20 different people will give you 20 different answers, adding to the confusion. As a brand new handloader, absolutely do NOT get a progressive press. There's simply too much going on at once for a new loader to manage. A simple single stage press is a much better way to start.

35W

 

[Charlie98]

Every time I go to my reloading shelf to crank out some rounds, I swear I look at my slowly dwindling primer shelf and feel like I’m looking into the eyes of a dying dog.

Well, it is maybe not that bad, but I do feel pretty guilty looking at the open spaces on the shelf that used to hold many boxes of primers.

Stay safe.

That's really the crux, isn't it? I've got powder for days... yes, there are a few specific flavors that are running a little low, but I have plenty of substitutes, and powder does show up now and then. Same-same with brass and bullets... I've not had a problem there, either. But I started 2020 with over 40K primers, and I'm now in the low 20K's, which sounds like a lot... but it's not.

 

[Jackiesman]

There are many references to people hoarding, but how about the retailers. Since the “ammo shortages” hit us a few years back our retailer (Blacksheep) has put out just enough to keep people coming in daily to buy their one box, can, or package, that they were allowed to buy (only one a day). That went on until they moved to a new store. Then miraculously they have pallets (yes, I mean fork lift pallets) of ammo and loading supplies with no restriction on quantity that you can purchase. They bought when it was cheap, held it in storage until the prices became astronomical, then put it out for sale to make some obscene profit. Can I PROVE it? No, Do I THINK that’s what he did? YES. Kudos to the owner for knowing that the shortage was coming, and having the where-with-all to make the purchases, and the savvy to stockpile. Although I don’t agree with the practice I Guess that you could call that good business sense.

 

[Jackiesman]

I am sitting on almost 5k 22lr. Never owned one in 17yrs of gun ownership until a few years ago. They sure are fun and cheap to feed. I wont touch my good stuff in my supply (mini mag, SV, SS, etc) but thunderbolts and auto match get used up because I can replace it for cheap when I see it at Wal-Mart. I learned my lesson when I decided I wanted to reload and Obama was elected. If you find a good deal you better grab it because it will be doubled soon. Once I have a supply to last me at least a year or two I quit buying it. I have my 22lr and my girlfriend could sit at the bench for hours and shoot 22lr so I am feeding hers too. Between the two of us we have about 10k rounds of 22lr.

I ran low on high brass 20ga #5-6 shot and had an out of state rabbit hunt to go to. Guess how much I had to pay at Cabelas for shotgun shells? $23 for a box. I was in there yesterday and a month ago 9mm came down to $18-19 a box. Its $26-27 now.

They gouge the public just like everyone else in the retail business, this is especially true since they sold to Bass Pro. Can you say monopoly, they finally drove Gander Mountain out of business.

 

[Jackiesman]

When’s the last time you priced a case of 44 special ? Or seen a case, or a box for that matter? The last I seen was something like $50/50. So a case would be bout $1000. I have maybe $300 in a full reloading and casting setup, buying used and scrimping.

30-30 is what, $30 a box now. With powder and primer, and cast bullets at full power I’m at $6.40 a box at current prices.

For me, well, I’m poor, if I didn’t reload there is no way I could have a stockpile of ammo.

Hey Bazoo, you hit the nail on the head. We can build a box of 30-30 for 6 - 8 bucks. Retailers sell it for $30 so why the gouge. It’s the “We want to get rich” mentality. And retailers aren’t alone! Have you shipped anything UPS, FedEx, or USPS lately. OUCH!

 

[Bazoo]

Don’t forget we reuse the case on a reload but buy it when buying factory ammo. So that is part of the uptick in cost.

As far as time, it’s easy enough to devote time to loading. I generally don’t watch tv, nor do anything else useless except look at the gun forum. I often reload an hour a day just here and there. But it adds up.

 

[txcookie]

I agree op. I love to shoot but I'm afraid to run out. I stocked up before the shortage out of luck. Started shooting more so I just started collecting ammo. I'm gtg on everything but not enough to feel comfy