The journey to making my $400 Walmart gun a precision rifle. Needing some advice

[horsey300]

I’m glad you explained what you meant by vertical dispersion and why it’s important! I’ll take that advice and return with results. I think you were on the thread with my 300blk development. You can see MY standards. 3-4holes inside each other. Hopefully I can get this the same way.

Btw 300blk is hitting on top of itself at 250 or so cross legged off the back of the tailgate of my truck.

I saw those 110's worked too! Was happy to see your success!

 

[JDeere]

I guess anything could be possible but I would leave it as it is and call it a decent hunting rifle. First off those 770 barrels are press fit so you wont be installing a LR barrel set up. The action also has some sort of plastic at the rear. These were built as economy bolt rifles but it's yours to do what you like...ymmv

 

[Mstafford88]

I guess anything could be possible but I would leave it as it is and call it a decent hunting rifle. First off those 770 barrels are press fit so you wont be installing a LR barrel set up. The action also has some sort of plastic at the rear. These were built as economy bolt rifles but it's yours to do what you like...ymmv

Glad you mentioned that. I actually had to replace the bolt with a 700 bolt because the cheap one it came with broke so now it’s a little bit of an upgrade. And what do you mean by press fit?

 

[horsey300]

Glad you mentioned that. I actually had to replace the bolt with a 700 bolt because the cheap one it came with broke so now it’s a little bit of an upgrade. And what do you mean by press fit?

The barrel is not threaded into the action, it's just pressed in.

 

[jmorris]

Well I’m looking to tighten the 1/4” groups I get down to closer to one hole at 100yds. I currently have a “fallback” load but am trying to make this an “out-west, mule deer/elk/etc long range” gun. And with reloading I know it’s possible.

Not to knock your goal but where shot #1 goes is more important to me for hunting than what size group I can make on a target. A successful hunt for me rarely requires more than one shot. I’ve got firearms that can put bullets all into the same hole but I haven’t ever hunted with them as they are not very practical For the task.

If you can’t get it done with 1/4 MOA precision, walk closer or pick a larger animal.

 

[JDeere]

And what do you mean by press fit?

What Horsey said it's not threaded into the action...

 

[JFrank]

I’m going to try to keep this as short as possible but I’m not sure how.

I bought my Remington 770 chambered in 270win back in 2009. I started reloading for it around 2010-2011 or so. Always had decent (sub MOA) groups at 100 but nothing crazy. Usually up to “my” standards for the most part.

Well I’m looking to tighten the 1/4” groups I get down to closer to one hole at 100yds. I currently have a “fallback” load but am trying to make this an “out-west, mule deer/elk/etc long range” gun. And with reloading I know it’s possible.

I purchased some 145gr Hornady ELDX projectiles and am starting the powder charge ladder using the book’s OAL of 3.210 (or so, my seating die is bottomed out)

Here’s the thing tho. I used the “blue loctite”method of attempting to find the lands. Did this with 2 modified bullets and averaged at ~3.48 OAL. That’s a pretty big jump to the lands.

So having said all that here’s the question: should I adjust a little closer to the lands before starting a true ladder test with powder? I feel like finding a powder node and adjusting the OAL THAT MUCH would make the powder charge inconsequential and I’d have to start from the beginning. But I also don’t know if my gun likes the bullet on the lands, a little off, or what.

For reference: current load is 60gr H4831 over 130gr interlock SP flat base. Doing what the book says at 3.18COAL. That’s my fallback. I’ve never messed with OAL, just followed the book. Never truly chased precision so this is new to me

We shoot 270 wsm here at the ranch and find them very close to 270 Winchester with regards to load data;
Our recipes have been shooting around a 25c piece at 200 yards, which is more than adequate for Mulies or Elk.
We’ve tried other bullet weights and powder combinations but this has proven the best.
140 gr. Accubond seated to mag length
H4831sc 58.6 gr
Remington brass
Fed match mag primers
recoil management plays a big role in testing hunting rifles, some days are just better than others.

First time re loader and a 270 WSM /140 AB

Prior to last season's hunt my son in law wanted to learn reloading for the titled rifle he had acquired, knowing this in advance I had picked up a set of Redding dies from a buddy that actually fit the chamber quite well only moving the brass a couple or maybe three thousandth total radial...

www.thehighroad.org

 

[Nature Boy]

IMHO, you’ve got a very steep uphill battle to make a cheap hunting rifle with a hunting cartridge chambering shoot one hole groups.

However, I wouldn’t dissuade you from giving it a go because it’s fun to try. Just make sure you manage expectations because trying to get even an expensive custom hunting rig to shoot “one hole groups” can be frustrating.

A few comments.

1. I think you may be at the max accuracy now but 2 shot groups won’t tell you much.

2. Achieving max accuracy is a process of eliminating causes of variation introduced by the shooter, the rifle and finally the load. There’s a reason that target rigs are designed differently than hunting rigs. They’re heavier to minimize movement, with heavy barrels that don’t change shape as they heat up, adjustable cheek risers, adjustable length of pull, ultra light triggers, etc. All things that a $400 Walmart special isn’t. Without a way to eliminate the variables introduced by the rifle, load development will have limited value.

3. Target quality .277 caliber bullets offerings are sparse and the .270 isn’t known an an inherently super accurate cartridge. That’s an 8 ball you’ll have a hard time getting out from behind of.

I have a custom hunting rig made from an FN SPR (Winchester model 70). Trued action, proof barrel, Timney trigger, McMillan stock with adjustable cheek piece and a Swarovski 3-18x50 scope

I’ve developed multiple hunting loads for it, all with attention toward the most accuracy I can wring out of it. The best I can achieve is 5 shot groups in the 0.4-0.5 MOA range.



That’s not even close to what my dedicated target rifles do on a consistent basis but they’re designed for different purposes.

My suggestion is to shoot some multiple 5 shot groups to set a baseline and see what tweeks here and there get you

 

[Mstafford88]

IMHO, you’ve got a very steep uphill battle to make a cheap hunting rifle with a hunting cartridge chambering shoot one hole groups.

However, I wouldn’t dissuade you from giving it a go because it’s fun to try. Just make sure you manage expectations because trying to get even an expensive custom hunting rig to shoot “one hole groups” can be frustrating.

A few comments.

1. I think you may be at the max accuracy now but 2 shot groups won’t tell you much.

2. Achieving max accuracy is a process of eliminating causes of variation introduced by the shooter, the rifle and finally the load. There’s a reason that target rigs are designed differently than hunting rigs. They’re heavier to minimize movement, with heavy barrels that don’t change shape as they heat up, adjustable cheek risers, adjustable length of pull, ultra light triggers, etc. All things that a $400 Walmart special isn’t. Without a way to eliminate the variables introduced by the rifle, load development will have limited value.

3. Target quality .277 caliber bullets offerings are sparse and the .270 isn’t known an an inherently super accurate cartridge. That’s an 8 ball you’ll have a hard time getting out from behind of.

I have a custom hunting rig made from an FN SPR (Winchester model 70). Trued action, proof barrel, Timney trigger, McMillan stock with adjustable cheek piece and a Swarovski 3-18x50 scope

I’ve developed multiple hunting loads for it, all with attention toward the most accuracy I can wring out of it. The best I can achieve is 5 shot groups in the 0.4-0.5 MOA range.

View attachment 1180222

That’s not even close to what my dedicated target rifles do on a consistent basis but they’re designed for different purposes.

My suggestion is to shoot some multiple 5 shot groups to set a baseline and see what tweeks here and there get you

You’re exactly right! In reference to the “me” factor, that’s where the Boyd’s stock will come in. I’ve found that I’m better ergonomically with the AR/vertical hand position. So I’m going with the AT-ONE stock. When prone, my neck was killing me from moving up. (Another me factor) so the adjustable cheek well will be great.

I’m also figuring out what I’ll do for rests while testing because I was getting some bounce even on the cheap rest I had. I think laying off the energy drinks with my prescribed Ritalin will go a long way too

Beautiful gun btw!

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

You’re exactly right! In reference to the “me” factor, that’s where the Boyd’s stock will come in. I’ve found that I’m better ergonomically with the AR/vertical hand position. So I’m going with the AT-ONE stock. When prone, my neck was killing me from moving up. (Another me factor) so the adjustable cheek well will be great.

I’m also figuring out what I’ll do for rests while testing because I was getting some bounce even on the cheap rest I had. I think laying off the energy drinks with my prescribed Ritalin will go a long way too

Beautiful gun btw!

I used to shoot club matches with a bunch of older guys (meaning me in high school a grade behind their kids) who would sit around drinking coffee and smoking cigarettes half the morning before getting out and shooting old service rifles at 300 yards. I don’t know how they did it. Must be a generational thing.

 

[Mstafford88]

Most just go to sit around and socialize. That’s fun and all, but making things go boom is more fun lol

 

[Mstafford88]

If you can’t get it done with 1/4 MOA precision, walk closer or pick a larger animal.

Not saying I can’t of course. Have been doing it for years. Part of the journey in reloading is making a gun do things it’s not designed for because, well, we can!

Also: if I miss, I’d rather it be me and not the gun

 

[Mstafford88]

Made up a rather long ladder with OAL right between the book and my lands. Should be a good compromise given the different Ogive between previous bullets and this one. We will see what this looks like with the current/factory stock

 

[Mstafford88]

Update: tested about 6 loads and nothing even close to my standards. Closest was about 1.5-2” group at 100. Perfectly stable platform and the barrel cooled between shots. Best was 57.5 gr and it widened as I went up. So that means time to go down.

I also ran into an issue with feeding. With a full mag (I practice like I play) the bolt got stuck on the next round in the mag. Sometimes it would not feed the next round also, causing deformation in the ballistic tip. This is counterproductive to what I’m going for here. Loaded at 3.300 which is .100 or so over the book. So I’ll try sinking it down and forget about the lands. If that doesn’t fix the feeding issue I’m not sure what else to do. At least with this bullet.

My gun just may not like this ogive due to a sharp loading ramp and works better with SP. which would leave either

1: my fallback, very accurate load. (130gr interlock SP) Or

2: a BT PSP (current is flat base). Also looked at the 140gr interlock BT. But only after getting another 100 of my fallback should I not find what I am looking for in this box of projectiles

 

[Thomasss]

I purchased some 145gr Hornady ELDX projectiles and am starting the powder charge ladder using the book’s OAL of 3.210 (or so, my seating die is bottomed out)

I just finished doing for my son that you said you want to do with a .270 Win.. He's got the new introduction model of the original Win Model 70 (2010) in .270 Win using a Leupold 3x9 scope. Go back 3 years and I was loading Hornady Interlock or Browning/Winchester 130 grain SPBT with 53 grains of 4350 for him. Those had overlapping bullet holes at 100 yards. But he wanted better and thinks the ELD-X is the answer. Two years with 2 lbs of powder and 200 145 grain ELD-X and I got him touching all the holes, but no over lap, and no 2 bullets in one whole.
The ELD-X is a fine bullet, but it is not magic. It still has to abide by that same laws of physics that all other bullets do. It is made for long distance shooting. Some people compare it to a Creedmoor. But a Creedmoor barrel has been developed to shoot a high B.C. bullet. Your gun barrel has not been designed that way. The ELD-X bullet main advantages are that it has a streamlined secant ogive with boat tail design with a very thin copper jacket and a heat resistant polymer tip. It's great for long distance shooting, but don't hold your breath if you think it will take over the world of hunting. By the way I also bottomed out on my seating dies and bought a new set with taper crimping. It didn't matter.
If you are interested, I load Winchester cases and Winchester LRP primers and IMR 4350 now in 51 grains and set the coal at 3.311. I believe the lands are very near 3.338. My load is just over 2700fps. I found maximum loads didn't improve anything. In fact the point of aim decayed a little at max. So I backed down and settled on dropping 1.9 grains less and point of aim improved significantly.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I just finished doing for my son that you said you want to do with a .270 Win.. He's got the new introduction model of the original Win Model 70 (2010) in .270 Win using a Leupold 3x9 scope. Go back 3 years and I was loading Hornady Interlock or Browning/Winchester 130 grain SPBT with 53 grains of 4350 for him. Those had overlapping bullet holes at 100 yards. But he wanted better and thinks the ELD-X is the answer. Two years with 2 lbs of powder and 200 145 grain ELD-X and I got him touching all the holes, but no over lap, and no 2 bullets in one whole.
The ELD-X is a fine bullet, but it is not magic. It still has to abide by that same laws of physics that all other bullets do. It is made for long distance shooting. Some people compare it to a Creedmoor. But a Creedmoor barrel has been developed to shoot a high B.C. bullet. Your gun barrel has not been designed that way. The ELD-X bullet main advantages are that it has a streamlined secant ogive with boat tail design with a very thin copper jacket and a heat resistant polymer tip. It's great for long distance shooting, but don't hold your breath if you think it will take over the world of hunting. By the way I also bottomed out on my seating dies and bought a new set with taper crimping. It didn't matter.
If you are interested, I load Winchester cases and Winchester LRP primers and IMR 4350 now in 51 grains and set the coal at 3.311. I believe the lands are very near 3.338. My load is just over 2700fps. I found maximum loads didn't improve anything. In fact the point of aim decayed a little at max. So I backed down and settled on dropping 1.9 grains less and point of aim improved significantly.

We all go down this road at some time. If I can get to the rifle safe at the back of store room I’ll dig out my iron sighted, 600yd Enfield No.4. I know it’s hard to believe but there was a time when I could actually see a target that far away.

 

[Mstafford88]

I just finished doing for my son that you said you want to do with a .270 Win.. He's got the new introduction model of the original Win Model 70 (2010) in .270 Win using a Leupold 3x9 scope. Go back 3 years and I was loading Hornady Interlock or Browning/Winchester 130 grain SPBT with 53 grains of 4350 for him. Those had overlapping bullet holes at 100 yards. But he wanted better and thinks the ELD-X is the answer. Two years with 2 lbs of powder and 200 145 grain ELD-X and I got him touching all the holes, but no over lap, and no 2 bullets in one whole.
The ELD-X is a fine bullet, but it is not magic. It still has to abide by that same laws of physics that all other bullets do. It is made for long distance shooting. Some people compare it to a Creedmoor. But a Creedmoor barrel has been developed to shoot a high B.C. bullet. Your gun barrel has not been designed that way. The ELD-X bullet main advantages are that it has a streamlined secant ogive with boat tail design with a very thin copper jacket and a heat resistant polymer tip. It's great for long distance shooting, but don't hold your breath if you think it will take over the world of hunting. By the way I also bottomed out on my seating dies and bought a new set with taper crimping. It didn't matter.
If you are interested, I load Winchester cases and Winchester LRP primers and IMR 4350 now in 51 grains and set the coal at 3.311. I believe the lands are very near 3.338. My load is just over 2700fps. I found maximum loads didn't improve anything. In fact the point of aim decayed a little at max. So I backed down and settled on dropping 1.9 grains less and point of aim improved significantly.

I’m glad I’m not the only one. With the 270 I’ve had pretty good luck with other bullets I’ve tried and found a good node pretty quickly. I think I mainly went to the 130gr SP interlocks that I have now because sierra got too expensive (at the time) and the SSTs blew such a huge hole in the exit that it damaged too much meat. The interlocks have been the best 100yd groups for me.

But I’m glad you mentioned the “magic bullet” thing. Like Geodude said: we all get that wild hair sometimes lol. But shoot even if I do find an absolutely perfect grouping it means nothing if I get deformation from recoil or the things won’t cycle. May be as simple as keeping the load I have and upgrading the stock and scope. That goes a LONG way

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

If wasn't mentioned. The 770 trigger is very easy to adjust. I have mine at 2.5 lbs.

Adjusting A Remington 770 Trigger

www.youtube.com

 

[Mstafford88]

If wasn't mentioned. The 770 trigger is very easy to adjust. I have mine at 2.5 lbs.

Adjusting A Remington 770 Trigger

www.youtube.com

Oh that I failed to mention. I have a custom trigger job done on this gun. So much so that the first time out with it after getting it done I shot over a deer’s back

Haven’t weighed it, but it’s a fuzz heavier than a slight breeze

 

[horsey300]

Update: tested about 6 loads and nothing even close to my standards. Closest was about 1.5-2” group at 100. Perfectly stable platform and the barrel cooled between shots. Best was 57.5 gr and it widened as I went up. So that means time to go down.

I also ran into an issue with feeding. With a full mag (I practice like I play) the bolt got stuck on the next round in the mag. Sometimes it would not feed the next round also, causing deformation in the ballistic tip. This is counterproductive to what I’m going for here. Loaded at 3.300 which is .100 or so over the book. So I’ll try sinking it down and forget about the lands. If that doesn’t fix the feeding issue I’m not sure what else to do. At least with this bullet.

My gun just may not like this ogive due to a sharp loading ramp and works better with SP. which would leave either

1: my fallback, very accurate load. (130gr interlock SP) Or

2: a BT PSP (current is flat base). Also looked at the 140gr interlock BT. But only after getting another 100 of my fallback should I not find what I am looking for in this box of projectiles

More likely they're too long for your twist and not stabilizing , you can run higher b.c. bullets, but the eld/vld types are trickier for barrels not running a twist made for them, honestly I'm impressed you got them to shoot THAT good!!!

 

[Mstafford88]

More likely they're too long for your twist and not stabilizing , you can run higher b.c. bullets, but the eld/vld types are trickier for barrels not running a twist made for them, honestly I'm impressed you got them to shoot THAT good!!!

Honestly I’m regretting the whole decision. I should have tried the 140gr BTSP if I wanted a more stabilized longer range bullet. Regardless of how good it shoots, doesn’t seem this particular bullet will feed. Leaving me with about 75 or so bullets just staring at me. Planning to go back to the fallback load most likely. I can get the velocity I want out of it. 60gr H4831 under a 130gr interlock is no joke.

 

[horsey300]

Honestly I’m regretting the whole decision. I should have tried the 140gr BTSP if I wanted a more stabilized longer range bullet. Regardless of how good it shoots, doesn’t seem this particular bullet will feed. Leaving me with about 75 or so bullets just staring at me. Planning to go back to the fallback load most likely. I can get the velocity I want out of it. 60gr H4831 under a 130gr interlock is no joke.

I'm not knocking the 130s, there's plenty of them for a reason, but I'll ask what you have against the 150s? Btips, accubonds (note i didn't type ablrs), ssts, btsps... leaving the station at 2650-2800 with b.c.s in the upper .4's (sgk is around .48 iirc) to lower .5s (sst .525 I believe)... none of these are a slouch, and the terminal perks of these heavier bullets? They'll still punch PLENTY hard downrange thanks to their higher b.c.s, but up close? They won't look like you were experimenting with explosives like so many 130s do when launched fast and making contact over 2900 fps. Generally we prefer either lite loaded 120s or the 150s, just something to ponder on good sir, and maybe try posting your 75 elds in the trading post if you truly don't wanna fool with them....or tuck them away for a some day younger person just getting started with his 6.8 western dies (or a some day older you?) Also check out JBM bullet length list and JBM stability calculator at some point

 

[Thomasss]

But shoot even if I do find an absolutely perfect grouping it means nothing if I get deformation from recoil or the things won’t cycle. May be as simple as keeping the load I have and upgrading the stock and scope. That goes a LONG way

When I first started playing with ELD-X, Hornady recommended going all the way out with them and my son was damaging the tips during loading. So, the slow procedure was trying to find a node that would do MOA or better and NOT damaging the darn bullet. The following year Hornady then said to load down to 3.210 and that didn't work either. Part of the problem was that my son's Model 70 has a 9.5 twist. So there is a lot to explore when testing bullet's efficiency in a particular rifle.

 

[Mstafford88]

I'm not knocking the 130s, there's plenty of them for a reason, but I'll ask what you have against the 150s? Btips, accubonds (note i didn't type ablrs), ssts, btsps... leaving the station at 2650-2800 with b.c.s in the upper .4's (sgk is around .48 iirc) to lower .5s (sst .525 I believe)... none of these are a slouch, and the terminal perks of these heavier bullets? They'll still punch PLENTY hard downrange thanks to their higher b.c.s, but up close? They won't look like you were experimenting with explosives like so many 130s do when launched fast and making contact over 2900 fps. Generally we prefer either lite loaded 120s or the 150s, just something to ponder on good sir, and maybe try posting your 75 elds in the trading post if you truly don't wanna fool with them....or tuck them away for a some day younger person just getting started with his 6.8 western dies (or a some day older you?) Also check out JBM bullet length list and JBM stability calculator at some point

I just hadn’t tried them I guess. I think way back when I first got the gun and tried box ammo the 130s shot better. Nothing against the 150s tho and I haven’t experimented much more but may try them out. At least I kinda know what my gun likes: SP style.


I think if I ever do end up getting a different gun I’ll keep with the .270. I absolutely love that caliber and it’s so underrated.

 

[horsey300]

I just hadn’t tried them I guess. I think way back when I first got the gun and tried box ammo the 130s shot better. Nothing against the 150s tho and I haven’t experimented much more but may try them out. At least I kinda know what my gun likes: SP style.


I think if I ever do end up getting a different gun I’ll keep with the .270. I absolutely love that caliber and it’s so underrated.

The original concept of the .270 was found to be too fast on most applications with the 130s, the 150s were created to slow the cartridge down, the perk that comes with them (higher s.d. for larger game, or higher b.c. for wind bucking and/or longer shots) is just a natural bonus. Fwiw not all factory 150s shot well out of my buddy's rifle either, but since we have this beautiful capability to custom load to our preferences, I'd start with a plain Jane Speer or sierra 150 sp flat base, then btsp, if you have success, I strongly recommend the sst or btip, with prejudice to the sst, I just haven't yet seen a rifle that doesn't like them. I'll send you some links to make this endeavor more affordable.