The official Army word about using custom firearm parts

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Jdude

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This comes up here from time to time, so I am going to dissiminate the official word that just came out.

The short answer is no custom parts - upper, hand grips, lasers for the M9 pistol, buttstocks, m4 uppers on a m16 lower, modifying to full auto, spraypainting, or anything else that changes any part of the gun is authorized. The unit may be required to pay to return the equipment to original form.

If you want to read it in offeeshul form, here you go. I have edited out contact information from the document.

Subject: Unauthorized Modifications, Items Affected: M16A2 Rifle, M16A4 Rifle, M4 Carbine, M4A1 Carbine, M240 Machine Gun (MG), M240B Machine Gun, M9 Pistol,

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
X "ATTENTION" X
X THIS MESSAGE CONTAINS INFORMATION THAT IS VITAL X
X TO THE SAFETY OF ARMY PERSONNEL AND THE OPERATION X
X OR MAINTENANCE OF ARMY EQUIPMENT. X
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

References:

a. AR 750-10, Army Modification Program, 8 August 2000.

b. Interim Policy on Capabilities Request Submissions to HQDA, 7 April 2005.

c. Unauthorized Modifications, Items Affected:
M16A2 Rifle, M16A4 Rifle, M4 Carbine, M4A1 Carbine, M240 Machine Gun (MG), M240B Machine Gun, M9 Pistol.

1. Distribution: [removed]

2. Problem:

a. Summary of Problem: Commanders are allowing various unauthorized modifications of M16A2/M16A4 Rifles, M4/M4A1 Carbines, M240/M240B Machine Guns, and M9 Pistols.

b. Background Information: During recent months, there have been an increasing number of reports of unauthorized modifications to rifles, carbines, M240 Machine Guns, and M9 Pistols. Some of these modifications increase the potential injury to personnel.

c. The language set forth in AR 750-10, chapter 3, paragraph 3-1.e, states:

"No Modification Work Order (MWO) is authorized for application unless it has an approved MWO number that is the product of the MWO process in paragraph 4-2. Commanders will not allow their equipment to be modified unless there is an official MWO."

d. These are examples of some but not all unauthorized modifications:

(1) One of the most common examples is unauthorized unit conversion from M16A2 Rifle to M4 Carbine. Action such as installing an M4 Carbine butt stock on an M16A2 Rifle or converting from burst to fully automatic is unauthorized and will cause increased stoppages, malfunctions, or possible safety incidents.

(2) Another example is the use of ergonomic pistol grips or silencers.
These are not authorized since testing / evaluation to identify acceptable alternative pistol grips or silencers for Army approval has not been done.

(3) Another example is the unauthorized modification of the basic M240 MG (coaxial variant) to the M240B (Dismounted Infantry) configuration by adding and removing components.

(4) Also, of note, is the modification of M9 Pistols by installing various off-the-shelf aiming lasers. The use of such lasers may involve the replacement of standard weapon components with non-standard components, resulting in an unauthorized modification of the pistol.

(5) A modification frequently reported is the painting of various small arms weapons, including those discussed above. Painting a weapon increases the risk of malfunctions caused by paint interfering with the moving parts of the weapon. Painting also increases the potential for infrared identification of the user. Removal of paint to return a weapon to -10 -20 standards often results in the protective surface finish being ruined, possibly resulting in a weapon that needs to be coded out for turn in.

(6) There is no approved Modification Work Order (MWO) for converting M16s to M4s nor is there one to convert the M240 to the M240B. No MWO has been issued authorizing the use of off-the-shelf aiming lasers with the M9 pistol. Similarly, there are no MWOs authorizing the painting of weapons.

e. Expected results of unauthorized modification:

WARNING
Unauthorized modifications to small arms weapons may cause damage to the weapon and/or death/injury to the operator. Combat readiness and reliability may be reduced, causing the weapon to become unavailable in critical situations because of stoppages, malfunctions, or the weapon becoming non-operational. To avoid these issues, weapons should not be modified.

3. User Actions:

a. Inspection Procedures: Weapons shall be inspected as per the applicable technical manual to ensure the weapon is fully mission capable.

b. Corrective Procedures: Any rifle, carbine, machine gun, or pistol that has an unauthorized modification applied shall be converted back to the original configuration with the appropriate original or replacement/repair parts as listed in applicable technical manuals. Painted weapons shall have the paint removed to the extent possible short of ruining the protective surface finish.

4. [removed]

5. Supply Status: Any requisitioned items needed to configure weapons back to standard/original configurations shall be done so at the unit's expense.

If any clarification is necessary, post here and I'll get official word.


Cross posted at .us and wethearmed.com
 
A friend in a Special Forces unit told me a couple years ago that he got back to the combat zone and discovered a garrison........It's nice to see the Army is still the Army.....:rolleyes:
 
These weapons were likely modified because the big green supply chain couldn't provide, so they did what needed done.

I see a lot of modified weapons being left behind and written off as combat losses. Better yet, 5 pounds of C4, one of those mobile arms lockers and a dead Haji and

KABOOM!

Suicide attack, got the arms trailer, all weapons lost.
 
Hell, that's a common joke now. "I went to war and garrison broke out." I got a traffic ticket for driving without a license - At FOB Anaconda, Baghdad, Iraq.

When explaining to the Airforce SP why I didn't have my state issued drivers license, I told him "Hell I thought there was a war going on around here somewhere. I am under the assumption that my rifle is a license."
 
I support the Army's position in this matter. The Army's supply chain is not equipped, nor should it be, to support unauthorized modifications, nor is command equipped to modify tactical doctrine to accommodate the use of unauthorized modifications. I wouldn't want soldiers under my command to depend on laser pointers. Save 'em for the Board Room.
 
there are several pros and cons to this. the most horrifying is what we call the "Geardo", where one puts so many accessories onto his M4 that it end up weighing about as much as a M2 50 cal, ans the joker never leaves the wire. its suprisingly more common than you would think.... heres an example....
geardo_lrg.jpg
in all honesty, if the 'operator' knows that adding a component will enchance his combat effectiveness, then why stop it?
 
Theres one thing modifying or buying a piece of kit because it helps you achieve the mission then. Theres taking the *****

"borrowed" binos better boots ok
katanana no :eek:
messing with the internal parts of a weapon big no no a Good OC needs to keep control or it can get out of control but .
don't wear an issued softie suit because its unslodierly
"oh you going to come an inspect us a 3am then sir?:evil:
 
that's mothing; whilst on active duty (74-78-1st Cav), on our last FTX before shipping the battalion overseas for 6 months, the battalion commander had the armorers wedge a spent-deprimered .223 case in the birdcage flash hider of all our M16', cause it would work as a blank firing adapter & not look nerdy like the square red ones issued.

Well, lo & behold, the unit armorers could not remove these & only support maintainence was allowed to remove & reinstall the flash hiders.

guess whoz ass was in a sling for that? Guy still made General, although last time I saw him the OP he was leading in Columbia was failing miserbaly.
 
I see this from time to time but the facts are that many of these "unauthorized" modifications are made with parts from within the Army supply system. Examples are CTC handgrips for M9s and laser pointer style lasers for rifles all easily ordered with NSNs. All the parts to convert an M16 to M4 are readily available as well.

No one ever asked me about my handgrip on my rifle or cared that I had a laser on my pistol. Of course we did not live on a FOB either and didn't even go on a US base for most of the tour. The bases we did go to were larger than many US bases at home. They have pizza hut, PXs, working traffic lights and 24 hour power and water generation. Toby Keith comes and plays I hear. Many soldiers never leave the FOB, never fire their weapon and never even see an Iraqi. So yep they will get speeding tickets on base.

We went to Bucca once. Bucca is probably the worst for rules since it is run by MPs. There is little red line in front of the clearing barrel where you have to stand in front of to clear your weapon. There is even a guy there to make sure you do it. Got yelled at for wearing a combat T-shirt. We did not bring any other tops and apparently they had nothing better to do than harrass guys coming in.

I guess what I am saying is these type restrictions don't exist where the war is still going on. But the war is happily over in most of the country so this type thing will increase until we have little America for every deployed soldier.
 
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I dont get it, If you ever humped the boonies, you want only what you need. That whiz bang stuff can get aweful heavy. My priorities were ammo, water, food, socks. Add that to my medic bag, I had enough to carry. Never understood the REMF mentality, 365 and a wake up was all that mattered, do your job, do it well, and go home.
 
Maybe Owen but if I order something off the Fedlog and it shows up then how are you going to tell me it is "not" in the supply system? That is how we got our CTC grips and many other things.

Biker Doc- If you saw the amount of crap that is carried these days you would have a hernia. I find it hilarious when the old vets talk about how out of shape and coddled the current force is.
 
Honestly I never saw anyone using any magazines except what was available through the supply system. We would get HK mags from time to time but I don't think there was a way to order them specifically.
 
Titan6,
Didnt say nothing about out of shape or coddled, Really Sorry if thats the way you took it, not my intent. Got a son in law in sandbox - marine third tour. Most of the the young soldiers and marines I meet today are squared away, and meet a higher standard of fitness and motivation than we did. And your right 40 years ago (1968) was along time past. Different war, different. time. As a wise man once said "would not do it again for a million dollars, Would not sell the experience for 10 million.
Stay safe and welcome home.
 
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Notice that the emphasis in the memo was about modding from burst to auto, and "field expedient" paint jobs. Both of these are things that the army is correct to discourage, since there will always be a guy who will tear into his rifle with a screwdriver and a couple of cans of Krylon. The result is a broken rifle.

This war has been much better than others about cutting through red tape and getting soldiers what they need, when they need it. That doesn't mean the system is going to be perfect.
 
These weapons were likely modified because the big green supply chain couldn't provide, so they did what needed done.

Thats BS and you know it. Have you ever been in the military? I am a great believer in the old saying: If you don't know what you are talking about it is best to keep your mouth shut. There is no shortage of weapons or parts per the GAO
 
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I worked for some real tough customers in Iraq and one day they let us play with their firearms. Fun city!
Picture017-1.jpg
 
Does this include slings and rail-mounted stuff for the M4? I can understand banning actual modifications to weapons, but simply adding things like a Surefire to the rail on an M4 is pretty much what the rail is for in the first place. Or using a single point sling because the standard issue 2 point sucks for offhand transitions during room clearing.
 
I guess what I am saying is these type restrictions don't exist where the war is still going on.
And then again, it depends on what modifications are made or what equipment is used. I dont know first hand, as I've never served, but I've heard of guys getting chewed out for mounting a BSA red dot on an M249, or a $40 laser sight on the triggerguard of their M9, however personally owned Aimpoints or EOTechs, and CT grips were okay.
 
the officer with the jammed spent cases as BFA's would have been told to oscar foxtrot by any armourer in the UK :eek:
mind you we have spent a fortune on a bfa that can take 3 live rounds before failing and a blank only magazine system.

nothing like finding live rounds and blanks mixed together to ruin an evenings exercise:(

NSN is nato stock number there is some weird and wonderful stuff you can order
on another forum there is a list of all the useful NSN's.
Once while doing extras in stores ordered the whole company fabian sykes fighting knives and they turned up :D unfortunatly the mp5s de lisle carbines did'nt though:(
 
NSN = National Stock Number in DOD. Nothing NATO about it.

The Benchmade AFO switchblade has an NSN - for the Coast Guard. Unless your Commander has a real need to blow budgeted coin on bling, he instructs the Supply Sergeant to keep requisitions limited to his officially limited priorities as defined by TOE and TDA. Not what the OP posted.

The subject is "unauthorized modifications" by soldiers - including parts provided out of their pocket. And like the geardo illustration, a lot of it is bling that is eventually pared down to reduce weight - if the soldier has any real fighting job.

Unfortunately, soldiers are prone to bulk up on bling, and like to mod their weapons. That they have no clue what they are doing is usually addressed at the unit level. It seems it wasn't done effectively, and now has risen to the level of a maintenace problem.

If there's something to learn here, casual civilian firearms owners should reconsider a lot of the same mods constantly posted here - parts not proven reliable or even compatible, paint jobs, major reconfigurations, etc. Since a lot of us have never taken engineering, gunsmithing, or even technical instruction to the level of fixing their own cars, it's a bit lame to think they could just add a bunch of mods that will actually work together effectively. It's hard enough for the factory to get it right, and they have certified pro's on the payroll.
 
The Marines are allowing soldiers issued M9 pistols to provide personal Beretta magazines. The problems with the issue replacement mags was a real one. They are NOT happy with other "personal" modifications to weapons. I have a son-in-law who just returned, and a daughter in the logistics group.:)
 
Don't Army and Marine snipers use customized rifles for shooting competition at Fort Benning?
 
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