The perfect gun shop (warning, rant enclosed)

[JamisJockey]

Rabbi,
I understand that the idea may not be feasable. Money, money, money. Without moving alot of merchandise its hard to clear that overhead.

I think Loose Cannon may have hit it better than I did. A typical gun shop can't clear the kind of overhead it might take to undertake such a proposition. However, a superstore could easily make it happen.
If the Sportsmans Wharehouse here had more accessories, could/would order more gear for customers, and had a coffeeshop, it would certainly be the perfect place to shop and screw around.

 

[manwithoutahome]

I must be lucky, we have that here at the Baron's Den in Eugene:

Indoor Range, prices are okay but it is well maintained.

"Round Table" (mostly for the owner and older regulars) but there are two couches and a coffee table inbetween that you can use.

Free Coffee and other goodies, like Ice Cream, some drinks other than coffee.

Very nice decorating. Old timey fans and clock. Has all types of antique guns on the wall and an old weight machine.

Very nice owners and puppies (that is what I call all dogs, old or young).

Until I fire my new Kimber, I don't know if Raye is just a good salesman or if he knows that I'm a sucker for just about anything .

Oh, and they have a cleaning room that you can use, and a walk in safe that you can store your guns for a decent price.

So, your "dream shop" is already here in Oregon .

Wayne

 

[The Rabbi]

Bass Pro Shop is the big superstore here with a lot of the gun stuff you mention. Easily 85% of the store is taken up with other things, a lot of it clothing. Clothing is generally inexpensive and has a high mark up, which is why you see so much of it. But selling clothing is different from selling guns. Do you really want clothing salesmen selling your guns or vice versa? No, I didnt think so. The other issue with a superstore is "shrinkage" aka theft. I wouldnt want to think about the implications of that, esp if you have racks of rifles and shotguns around.

 

[roo_ster]

Shopping with the wife:
I end up spending more money on clothes for my wife at Harrold's than any other place in town. Why? They understand that sometimes the customer is not really the gal trying out the latest fashions. Sometimes it is the husband who is dragged along on these expeditions. Harrold's provides plush chairs to kick back in as well as complementary sodas while the hubby (AKA, "wallet transportation device") is waiting to see what wifey will come out wearing. Harrold's understands that we don't shop till my wife drops, we shop till I drop and say, "enough!"

How might this apply to gun shops?:
Gun shops, too, are retail establishments that can use the lessons learned from other retail venues. This is NOT rocket science. Try reading/listening to Zig Ziglar for cheap hints & inspiration regarding sales. Observe how other successful retail establishments operate. Just because some gun designs date back to the 19th century, that doesn't mean retail gun shop practices have to.

I also know that some of the customers are ignorant and downright rude or unreasonable. Well, a large part of the salesman's job is to educate the customer. Be honest & give them good data. As to the fools who walk in the door and tax your patience...well this is retail and goes with any job requiring interface with the public.

I can understand why some gun shops are run like they are:
1. No money to improve establishment
2. Do not know HOW to run a better retail establishment
3. Do not care

#1 is a tough nut and understandable
#2 can be rectified with some effort
#3 is a lost cause & deserve to crater

 

[Edmond]

I would've thought that markups on firearms are quite low and that shops made money through range fees and accessories.

Many ranges have a policy that you have to buy their ammunition. That wouldn't be a problem if their ammunition was reasonably priced.

 

[The Rabbi]

1) Fast 2)Cheap 3) Good. Pick any two. This is as true of gun shops as anything else. Again, there are not that many knowledgeable *salespeople* in guns out there. I emphasize the word because anyone can chew the fat about a 1911 but actually selling the gun is different. I saw a customer come in with a mild interest ina revolver and the salesman did a great job selling him a box of Aquila .45acps. More salesmen like that and a store will go out of business for sure.
Figuring out the customer's hot buttons is important. Figuring out if he even is a customer is more important. A lot of people just browse with no intention or ability of buying anything. Thats fine but there is no point in discussing price with someone like that or spending a lot of time with him. He just wants to see the new Smith 500 or whatever it is.

I think if I were to do this I would emphasize used guns and keep a very minimal stock of new guns, especially the pricey Kimbers. There is so much variation in the models you are sure not to have what the customer really wants. I would orient the accesories, holsters, speedloaders, magazines, etc to the guns I do carry. I would have a wish list for every regular customer with a file on that person for what he has bought and what he is interested in. I would become an avid reader of the gun mags and try to have whatever they are reviewing (a tricky proposition as mags frequently review guns months ahead of actual production and delivery). I would make custom ordering easy but tie up the customer at the front end so he doesnt stumble onto a deal later. I would not have old coon dogs around the store and I might have a chair or two but no more. Nothing like a meeting of AARP to scare off any women who might come in. I would have a smith there one or two days a week and run ammo specials every week or so. I would make sure never to carry new Ruger 10/22s or Mossberg shotguns.

 

[wmenorr67]

I have a store/shop here in Tulsa that is almost perfect. The one problem with it is that it is a little high priced but the service is great plus extras. The staff is highly helpful and intelligent. They have several lanes for shooting. Just recently opened up lanes for rifles. They have a few sofas for relaxing, sell gun safes, great selection of pistols, rifles and equipment. They also have memberships and have different classes to help people become better shooters. They also have coffee and snack machines. Almost perfect. The name of the store/shop/range is Tulsa Firearms in Tulsa, Ok. Look for them on the web at www.tulsafirearms.com

 

[spartacus2002]

The perfect gunshop would have Pamela Anderson and Skunkabilly working the gun display counter.

 

[Zundfolge]

1) Fast 2)Cheap 3) Good. Pick any two.

Oh, I agree with that 100% ... however I've noticed that the people who complain most about the price are the same people who don't mind a dirty shop with ugly carpet and grumpy salespeople.

The people who are less likely to complain about price aren't going to put up with being treated like they are bothering the sales help, don't want to stand on stained carpet with cigarette burns on it and don't want to hang out with a bunch of 60+ year old bubbas sucking down free coffee and complaining about everythign.

If you go for #1 and #3 you end up weeding out the customers who's primary focus is #2. jfruser's post kind of illustrates this principal.



One target demographic the shooting industry should try to expand their presence in is golfers ... golfers are a lot like shooters in that they waste lots of money on gagets, but the difference is that golfers are used to more of a country club environment ... so they demand better service and a better atmosphere but they will spend more then the tightwad bubbas.

 

[Edmond]

I inquired about nite sites for my Glock at this shop. They only had Trijicons for $110, which I thought was overpriced. Then they wanted to charge extra for installation!

If I had a shop; I wouldn't charge for installation if you bought from me. That would include nite sites, grip extensions and any other things that I could do.

If a shop did that for me, I would be more inclined to pick up a box of ammo or some targets, etc...

 

[BluesBear]

The perfect gunshop would have Pamela Anderson and Skunkabilly working the gun display counter.

Skunk would be selling the real, quality guns.

Pamela would be pushing the cheap, plastic ones.
Just make sure she keeps her hands washed.

 

[Monkeyleg]

Reading the posts here has been a real education, and I find myself in almost 100% agreement with The Rabbi. Without going into boring detail, 17 years ago I hocked everything I owned to start my own business. Spent tens of thousands of dollars to air-condition the place when my wife and I had no air conditioning at our home. Spent thousands on furniture for the place that we would have loved to have had at home. Spent untold amounts of money to give customers every conceivable luxury that we could never justify spending for our home.

And they spat on it, dropped their food on it, crushed cigarettes out on it, broke it, or just plain didn't appreciate the sacrifice we'd made to make our shop more comfy for them.

It's been my observation that people who are not self-employed seem to assume a number of things: that every two weeks the skies open up and paychecks come tumbling down; that, no matter what kind of mess they make, somebody at 2am is going to clean it up; that, if they break something, the something will be magically replaced; that they're going to get the newest, latest and greatest at no cost to themselves.

So, how about everyone who posts on this thread from here on out state whether or not they're self-employed? We could separate the chaff from the wheat really quickly that way.

Gun shops operate on some of the thinnest profit margins of any retail industry, and have some of the least loyal customer bases. Frankly, I'm surprised that the successful shops have managed to hang on.

 

[JamisJockey]

Monkeyleg,
Sorry to hear that people don't appreciate the service you provide.
I'm not self employed. So what? I'm a consumer, and know that I absolutely don't like shopping in cesspool gunshops that I don't want to bring my young child into because they are so seedy and dumpy. That is the rule, not the exception around here.
Gunshops are crapholes.

 

[Monkeyleg]

Atc1man, it's not a matter of there being "cesspool" gun shops out there. Yeah, there are.

But this whole thread has been about the "perfect" gun shop, and we can all fantasize. There are some great shops out there, but they largely don't exist in the middle of the Utah desert, or in the middle of Kansas (see my own rant on Kansas in another thread).

Friends of mine who own fairly large shops have sat me down and run the numbers for me. Just starting up the air system on the range costs big $$$ before anybody even starts shooting. One owner has some of the most educated staff of any shop I've ever seen. Each one is a specialist. If you want to know about 1911's, they have Eduardo talk to you, because he knows just about everything; in fact, he even gives advice to Ed Brown. Knives? Talk to Pete. He can tell you, without even having to look at notes, what the blade's made from. If you want to know about rare or collectible guns, they'll steer you to John. He's a walking gun encylopedia. Hunting? Yep, they've got other salespeople who know their stuff just as well.

These kind of people don't come cheap. And, if your shop happens to be out in the middle of Nowhere, USA, you might be able to get the people, but you'll never get the traffic to be able to pay for them, much less pay yourself.

Maybe that's the reason that Tiffany's doesn't have a store in Kearney Nebraska, or my town of Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

And maybe that's why there's no gun shop like Baron's in "new yawk city."

 

[Logan5]

This thread immediately made me think of Griffin & Howe, Holland & Holland, and Beretta's locations in my general area. My wife really dosen't like me to visit them, since she'd like us to buy a house some day soon. (too late, alas... I've seen the website, and it's going to cost me $1500) As far as I can tell, they're not having any trouble staying in business, but it's... well, it's a whole different kind of business in most respects. It's not a fair comparison.
On the other hand... well, I won't work myself into a rant.

 

[Evil_Ed]

http://www.azshootersworld.com/

These guys were on one of the gun shows from the Outdoor Life Network the other night. They seem to hit alot of the points you guys are talking about. A/C, shooting range, gun rentals (including full-auto! ) and all sorts of guns and accessories for sale.

 

[fix]

When I open my shop in a few years, I plan to have a range facility and a lounge on site. Coffee and breakfast free every day for customers who have spent some money in the store in the last year. Free for all LE, regardless. LE and Veteran discounts, etc. Range facilities will be used primarily for pre-purchase sampling, but will be available for rental as well, discounted if you buy the ammo from me. Previous customers get a discount. LE and Vets shoot for free. Probably sell over the web as well. It's what I plan to do with my life. What I'm doing now is great, but it's just a means to an end. If it works out then great. If it does not, too bad. I will hit the workforce again rather than run a hole in the wall shop.

 

[The Rabbi]

May want to talk to Monkeyleg first.

One thing people have mentioned is serving food/beverages in the store. Maybe it's just me but I dont think guns and food mix too well. Guns seem to involve a lot of petroleum products and heavy metals, certainly nothing I want going into my body in any form. I always wash my hands after shooting or cleaning or handling. I cant guarantee customers will do the same. I can almost guarantee that if someone gets sick doing that he will be back to sue you.

 

[Monkeyleg]

Rather than start a new thread, this seemed like the best one to follow up on.

I started calling UT shops yesterday for my site. Right now I have Impact Arms, Patriot Arms and Totally Awesome Guns on the site. Get Some and Gallenson's have asked that I call back, but do seem to want to be on the site. Doug's Shoot N' Sports also seems interested, but I have to wait until next week. Ditto with Rangemasters and Payson Sports. Still have to talk to someone at Gunnies, Barlows Custom, and Dixie Gun & Fish.

Are there any other good shops I'm missing? It seems that just about every good shop is in the SLC area. I know the part of Utah south of I-70 better than I know Wisconsin, and recognize that it's pretty sparse down there. But what about Vernal, Logan, Hanksville, Cedar City, Hurricane, Moab, Monticello and some of the other medium to smaller towns?

One thing's for sure: you gotta love it when so many shops have full-auto rentals!

Thanks much for any replies/suggestions.

 

[Car Knocker]

Have to tell ya, I really have a problem with "good shop" and Doug's in such close proximity. At least you didn't also use the term "quality range".

 

[JohnK]

That perfect shop sounds almost like Weapons Safety Inc...before they closed. http://www.weaponssafety.com/ When they were closing, and selling off their rental guns, they said they were going to re-open in a year in another location, hopefully they'll be able to do it.

Nice place, big, bright, seating area (no coffee though) quite a few guns both for sale and rent, some reloading supplies (they could definately have had more though), magazines. All in all a nice place. If they didn't want $50 just to do a gun transfer I might have gone there more often.

 

[Akurat]

Sounds cool, a gun shop without the dreary, paranoid atmosphere... Kind of reminds me of a certain cigar house in FL

 

[Muzzleflash]

There has been a huge, huge flood of people posting about gunshops.
Sexism in gunshops. How to start a gunshop. Gunshop rants.

I think that we ought to get together and start up a gunshop CHAIN.
A series of franchises in various parts of the US, a website for ordering guns too.

Hell, I'm not old enough to be a FFL yet but I'd freakin' love to work in what you guys have described here. I'd be able to set up and administrate the network at the very least, and probably handle some of the building layout and design.

A few things:

Food. SMALL snack selection. Some coffee snacks, some pizza, stuff like that. Hot, fresh, tasty. But BETWEEN the guns and the food, there should be a restroom, and a HUGE sign:

WASH HANDS BEFORE EATING OR DRINKING AFTER HANDLING GUNS

Food will not be free to the general walkin public. They will not get free breakfasts. You can get a free breakfast etc once a week, if you maintain your buying status. Cops get free coffee and a biscotti or a cookie. Nice people get offered a nice cup of coffee.

People needed that haven't been mentioned, these are all gun types btw:

A food pro. He makes sure the food is great and good. (I could handle this easy).
Cleaning person. Sometimes people are down on their luck. I think cleaning jobs could be given to people that need a job and can keep things going well.


BATHROOMS

The bathrooms must be IMMACULATE. Also, bathroom design can be very nice. Like a vaulted ceiling with a skylight.






If anyone would be starting something like this in Eastern Tennessee or Vermont (the two places I'm most likely to be in the next two years), you can count yourself having a sysadmin / uncertified IT technican, junior instructor (I'm going for the NRA instructorship, definitely), coffeehouse style food person, cleanup guy, and charismatic, personable, sell-ice-to-an-eskimo guy behind the counter.

 

[Marko Kloos]

I wonder how many of the folks who want a gun store version of Starbucks would also expect to get new guns and ammo 10% over store cost at most, and full blue book value on their trade-in guns. Who is going to pay for the vaulted ceiling in the bathrooms, the "free" coffee and biscotti, and the crew keeping the bathrooms immaculate?

I can tell you that 90% of the people that walk into our store would not be willing to pay for the overhead of such an establishment, and no store can make a living on the remaining 10% who are.

 

[mummac]

Wouldn't there be some health code/licensing problems involved with mixing food and shooting? Also, I think Starbucks and the like make money with their coffee shops because there are droves of yuppies using up free wireless internet access and teenagers writing poetry or "working on their manuscript."