Well, there were many Jews who survived the concentration camps, and many who died trying to flee the country... so who's smarter there? Sometimes, when you are so massively out-gunned, fighting is not the best strategy. If you have ten men aiming guns at your head, and you are not armed, saying "no thanks" is not nesessarily the best option.
The Pianist - Were people really this spineless?
- Thread starter QKRTHNU
- Start date
- Status
Baba Louie
Member
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2002
- Messages
- 3,831
Sleeping Dog,
Only the west coast japanese descendents were interred I believe. Earl Warren, then CA A.G. (later supreme court justice...how's that for irony?) helped lead the way.
Q
As to the Jews in Europe... where to go?
Spain? Fascism under Franco.
France? Helped round them up.
Poland? USSR?
Czechoslovakia, Austria, Italy?
Belguim or the Netherlands?
Your family, your work and life is in one town, you speak one language (maybe two), you've spent the last 2000 years being screwed around by every Chritian, Muslim and pagan... you learn to persevere, made it part of your dogma.
Read Michner's "The Source" for a good description or Leon Uris "The Haj".
Maybe if you're an educated professional or artisian (maybe) and have lots of money and political contacts in America (Einstein and his ilk) you can get out. That's what... 5% maybe out of the total?
You're thinking like an American who was fortunate enough to have forefathers who knew about being suppressed and wrote in that guarantee about arms.
Your family probably weathered wild natives trying to kill them while they took over the old hunting grounds so you have a martial streak in you, or maybe your family emigrated over in the late 19th century. Hardy, yet poor and hated in your new country, the USofA.
Different set of background cultural and ethnic beliefs totally.
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their mocassins... I personally wouldn't want to walk in those particular mocassins during 1933 - 1945.
Only the Zionists ended up being fighters. Look what they've accomplished in Israel; what it took to get there and how they fare in todays world, especially with their loverly neighbors wanting them all DEAD AND GONE FROM THE FACE OF THE EARTH.
Tough call.
Spineless?
Maybe part of some plan.
Tragic?
For sure.
Great movie by the way.
Adios
Only the west coast japanese descendents were interred I believe. Earl Warren, then CA A.G. (later supreme court justice...how's that for irony?) helped lead the way.
Q
As to the Jews in Europe... where to go?
Spain? Fascism under Franco.
France? Helped round them up.
Poland? USSR?
Czechoslovakia, Austria, Italy?
Belguim or the Netherlands?
Your family, your work and life is in one town, you speak one language (maybe two), you've spent the last 2000 years being screwed around by every Chritian, Muslim and pagan... you learn to persevere, made it part of your dogma.
Read Michner's "The Source" for a good description or Leon Uris "The Haj".
Maybe if you're an educated professional or artisian (maybe) and have lots of money and political contacts in America (Einstein and his ilk) you can get out. That's what... 5% maybe out of the total?
You're thinking like an American who was fortunate enough to have forefathers who knew about being suppressed and wrote in that guarantee about arms.
Your family probably weathered wild natives trying to kill them while they took over the old hunting grounds so you have a martial streak in you, or maybe your family emigrated over in the late 19th century. Hardy, yet poor and hated in your new country, the USofA.
Different set of background cultural and ethnic beliefs totally.
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their mocassins... I personally wouldn't want to walk in those particular mocassins during 1933 - 1945.
Only the Zionists ended up being fighters. Look what they've accomplished in Israel; what it took to get there and how they fare in todays world, especially with their loverly neighbors wanting them all DEAD AND GONE FROM THE FACE OF THE EARTH.
Tough call.
Spineless?
Maybe part of some plan.
Tragic?
For sure.
Great movie by the way.
Adios
If you want to understand what happened to the ghetto Jews in WWII you should read an excellent book by Rich Cohen, "The Avengers". It tells the story of a few Jews from Vilna, Lithuania who fought the Nazis very successfully and went on to fight for Israel. The book is too long to summarize here, but the bottom line is that most of the victims refused to believe what was happening even in the face of convincing evidence. For a parallel look at the ridiculous beliefs of liberal Democrats in spite of the evidence of the failures of socialist programs. Man's ability to delude himself is unlimited.
spacemanspiff
Senior Member
a little over a week ago i was at a restaurant and i noticed an older lady walking by who had numbers tattooed on her arm. i didnt have to ask her about them to know she recieved it in a concentration camp. she was in her late 60's/early 70's so she was rather young while there. would you call her or her family members who likely died at the hands of the nazis 'spineless'?
QKRTHNU,
Read some books and learn more. Did you know that the U.S. government moved (interned) all Japanese people who lived on the west coast at the start of WWII? They were all moved to camps away from the coast. They were decent people and they didn't struggle. They were just lucky that they were living in the U. S. and not Germany.
The Jews had been kicked out of their homeland almost 2,000 years before Germany even existed. They disbursed all over Europe, Asia and the Arab world. In every country they were treated as second class citizens. Usually not allowed to own land or participate in any business or activity that was reserved for the real citizens. Many Jews learned basic crafts or became educated in things like medicine. You know why? So that when they got thrown out of a country they could take their means of earning a living with them . . . in their heads.
Jews had lived in Germany for many years. By the 1940's German Jews considered themselves to be GERMAN. They spoke the language and were business owners. Many had fought for Germany during the First World War. They were successful and their situation was better in Germany than it had been in many other countries.
Some Jews were able to escape. Albert Einstein was well known and was admitted to the U.S. But if you were not so well known there was no where to go. Britain? No, France? France had been anti-semetic for years and years. Spain? Spain threw out all of their Jews in 1492. Russia? Ever heard of Pogroms? Switzerland? The Swiss even refused entry to Jews who escaped Germany and forced them back to be killed in the concentration camps. Poland? There was a reason why the Germans built concentration camps in Poland. After the war some Jewish survivors tried returning to their homes in Poland and were killed by their Polish neighbors after Germany had been defeated!
Now, remember this. The Jews had no organized army. They had no arms. In a few places were they managed to get guns they put up a good reisitance such as in the Warsaw Ghetto. But what were the chances of success? The French army only lasted about 6 weeks against the Germans in 1939. The Belgians and the Poles folded in less time than that. How could the Jews of Europe hope to stand up to the Germans when they were usually untrained in weapons and didn't even own weapons?
Now, look at how the situation has changed and also how it hasn't. The Jews are back in Israel. They have had to fight more often for their survival in the last 55 years than probably any other country. They are strong and many of the weapons they have developed are prized all over the world. The Israeli army, air force and intelligence services are admired or feared all over the world. But, also look at things like how countries vote in the UN. How many countries will vote to support the Israeli position on anything? The answer is that very few countries, even democracies will ever support the Israeli position.
Bill
Read some books and learn more. Did you know that the U.S. government moved (interned) all Japanese people who lived on the west coast at the start of WWII? They were all moved to camps away from the coast. They were decent people and they didn't struggle. They were just lucky that they were living in the U. S. and not Germany.
The Jews had been kicked out of their homeland almost 2,000 years before Germany even existed. They disbursed all over Europe, Asia and the Arab world. In every country they were treated as second class citizens. Usually not allowed to own land or participate in any business or activity that was reserved for the real citizens. Many Jews learned basic crafts or became educated in things like medicine. You know why? So that when they got thrown out of a country they could take their means of earning a living with them . . . in their heads.
Jews had lived in Germany for many years. By the 1940's German Jews considered themselves to be GERMAN. They spoke the language and were business owners. Many had fought for Germany during the First World War. They were successful and their situation was better in Germany than it had been in many other countries.
Some Jews were able to escape. Albert Einstein was well known and was admitted to the U.S. But if you were not so well known there was no where to go. Britain? No, France? France had been anti-semetic for years and years. Spain? Spain threw out all of their Jews in 1492. Russia? Ever heard of Pogroms? Switzerland? The Swiss even refused entry to Jews who escaped Germany and forced them back to be killed in the concentration camps. Poland? There was a reason why the Germans built concentration camps in Poland. After the war some Jewish survivors tried returning to their homes in Poland and were killed by their Polish neighbors after Germany had been defeated!
Now, remember this. The Jews had no organized army. They had no arms. In a few places were they managed to get guns they put up a good reisitance such as in the Warsaw Ghetto. But what were the chances of success? The French army only lasted about 6 weeks against the Germans in 1939. The Belgians and the Poles folded in less time than that. How could the Jews of Europe hope to stand up to the Germans when they were usually untrained in weapons and didn't even own weapons?
Now, look at how the situation has changed and also how it hasn't. The Jews are back in Israel. They have had to fight more often for their survival in the last 55 years than probably any other country. They are strong and many of the weapons they have developed are prized all over the world. The Israeli army, air force and intelligence services are admired or feared all over the world. But, also look at things like how countries vote in the UN. How many countries will vote to support the Israeli position on anything? The answer is that very few countries, even democracies will ever support the Israeli position.
Bill
Frohickey
Member
Here is a snippet from a document long ago, even before Hitler was born. Mankind hasn't changed much since then, and it still hasn't.
Bonus question is "Who wrote this quote, and from where is it from?"
Math question is "How long between this quote, and the Jewish Holocaust?"
Bonus question is "Who wrote this quote, and from where is it from?"
Math question is "How long between this quote, and the Jewish Holocaust?"
Frohickey
Member
Um... you don't see the Desert Eagle being used by Spec Ops.
Carlos Cabeza
Member
Question, how would one be labeled "Juden" or Jew, by their surnames, eye color, stature or build. Maybe I have lived in america too long and don't see many of the subtle differences that makes us all individuals but I fail to see how they were discriminated from others. Someone please explain.
Also, I have not seen the movie.
Also, I have not seen the movie.
Gordon Fink
Member
How free are you?
You must ask permission to operate your private vehicle, to own a firearm, to marry, and to conduct business—just to name a few “freedoms.†In many cases, you are restricted in the manner with which you may dispose of your own property. You are prohibited from owning many types of weapons and from carrying any weapon, in most cases. You are, in fact, prohibited from owning real property. You are also prohibited from consuming many types of pharmaceuticals. You may be incarcerated for paperwork “violations†or any number of other victimless, non-violent offenses. Many natural behaviors are proscribed or regulated by “law,†and you can bet there is always someone ready to tell you what you can or cannot do with your own body. Finally, a significant fraction of your earnings is taken from you under the threat of force.
How strong is your desire to be free? How much more will you take before you fight back?
~G. Fink
Under Nazi rule, all German citizens were required to carry something called a "Ahnenpass" - it was like a passport, but it recorded your geneology for several generation, noting the nationality and religion of you parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents. Each page had to be stamped with a swastika. Also, if you move to a small town you will notice that everyone knows everyone else's religion, occupation, etc. - that's kind of how all of Germany was at the time. People in Europe don't really move around the way Americans do, and families usually know other families for many generations. Once it was determined that someone did not have a "clean" heritage, and were Jewish, they were forced to wear stars sewn onto their clothing. Remember too, it was not just Jews who were targeted - gypsies, homosexuals, disabled people, etc. Basically, if you did NOT fit a certain mold, you were likely to be harassed, or even killed, just for who you were.
Carlos Cabeza
Member
Thank you very much Ladybug, I needed a little clarification. I did not realize people were targeted for other differences such as you listed at the end of your post. How very horrible, I cannot believe this happened such a short time ago.
Larry C, I saw your post and realized something, not many people have "convictions" like you spoke of anymore.
And to those I say "Not meaning how many times you have been proven guilty by a judge/jury" .................
Larry C, I saw your post and realized something, not many people have "convictions" like you spoke of anymore.
And to those I say "Not meaning how many times you have been proven guilty by a judge/jury" .................
Ian Sean
Member
Mom was 17 when WW2 was over. She and her entire family lived in Frankfurt. I had an uncle sent to a Concentration camp for political re-education. He was caught listening to the radio, the BBC. He got in even more trouble for having certain banned books. Such as Jack Londons', The Call of the Wild.
My Great Uncle Ernst was released after about a year. My mom said he was always one of her favorites growing up. Someone who today would probably fit right in here, a free thinker and radical of sorts. His job is what saved his life and got his release. His employer vouched for him and apparently he was involved in an electronics firm as a technician deemed vital to the war effort.
After he was released my Mom said he was never the same. The fun-loving, outgoing man was a withdrawn burned out shell.
On to Mom, once she forgot to give her school teacher the Nazi salute as she walked by (much as a subordinate does in the military). Mom was forced to stand outside the school doors for 6 hours with her right arm raised.
These were regular people, very afraid, who didn't fight back, how were the Jews expected to?
Upon the conclusion of the war, my Grandfather, a machinist by trade and having no political affiliation. Was made a Police officer by the US Army. Going through Nazi records at the local HQ he found out who all the local rats were, and his family was deemed "politically unreliable" by the Nazi Party. They were slated to be forced out of their home and relocated. Basically the modest working class house in the Frankfurt suburb was to good for them, but better for some Nazi slob.
The socialist scourge didn't stop at the jews, the German people too were terrified of the goings on. This is why I have little patience for the gun-grabbers or any left socialist type propaganda or program, and offer them no quarter. I am only one generation removed from the hell of that regime. Mom is still pretty fiesty (75 now) and gets worked up on freedom issues from time to time.
My Great Uncle Ernst was released after about a year. My mom said he was always one of her favorites growing up. Someone who today would probably fit right in here, a free thinker and radical of sorts. His job is what saved his life and got his release. His employer vouched for him and apparently he was involved in an electronics firm as a technician deemed vital to the war effort.
After he was released my Mom said he was never the same. The fun-loving, outgoing man was a withdrawn burned out shell.
On to Mom, once she forgot to give her school teacher the Nazi salute as she walked by (much as a subordinate does in the military). Mom was forced to stand outside the school doors for 6 hours with her right arm raised.
These were regular people, very afraid, who didn't fight back, how were the Jews expected to?
Upon the conclusion of the war, my Grandfather, a machinist by trade and having no political affiliation. Was made a Police officer by the US Army. Going through Nazi records at the local HQ he found out who all the local rats were, and his family was deemed "politically unreliable" by the Nazi Party. They were slated to be forced out of their home and relocated. Basically the modest working class house in the Frankfurt suburb was to good for them, but better for some Nazi slob.
The socialist scourge didn't stop at the jews, the German people too were terrified of the goings on. This is why I have little patience for the gun-grabbers or any left socialist type propaganda or program, and offer them no quarter. I am only one generation removed from the hell of that regime. Mom is still pretty fiesty (75 now) and gets worked up on freedom issues from time to time.
Cosmoline
Member
It can get so bad...
...that taking a bullet to the back of the head is not such a bad option. It's very easy to sit here in hope and freedom, passing judgment on a people who had neither.
The lesson is, be careful about letting them take away your freedoms. It will happen bit by bit if you let it, until evenutually you have nothing left to fight for and you simply submit.
The blame for what happen should fall on the people who did the killing, not on those who were murdered. Frankly we should never have allowed a single member of the SS or the Nazi party hierarchy survive that war. We were way, way too nice to them.
...that taking a bullet to the back of the head is not such a bad option. It's very easy to sit here in hope and freedom, passing judgment on a people who had neither.
The lesson is, be careful about letting them take away your freedoms. It will happen bit by bit if you let it, until evenutually you have nothing left to fight for and you simply submit.
The blame for what happen should fall on the people who did the killing, not on those who were murdered. Frankly we should never have allowed a single member of the SS or the Nazi party hierarchy survive that war. We were way, way too nice to them.
Oleg Volk
Moderator Emeritus
Avoidance of conflict is built into most people, and lack of reliable information makes it easier to justify cooperation over desperate fighting. We know, in our minds, that cooperation with evil is always a losing strategy...but how many of us would fold facing lesser odds than a pistol against a tank. A roadblock with a couple of armored foes with M16s would do it for most here.
Having studied the WW2 events in detail, I am impressed that a few fought after all, not that most didn't. We, with the benefits of hindsight and more respources and better access to information, still can't always predict what we would do should we ever notice ominous parallels.
That said, I think that the policy of hunting down anyone who ever offered an unprovoked threat of violence while in official capacity to be beneficial for humanity as a whole. I think it was a mistake not to execute anyone who ever wore Gestapo or Stasi or NKVD uniform the moment we got our hands on their necks. On that I disagree with less impulsive friends here...
Having studied the WW2 events in detail, I am impressed that a few fought after all, not that most didn't. We, with the benefits of hindsight and more respources and better access to information, still can't always predict what we would do should we ever notice ominous parallels.
That said, I think that the policy of hunting down anyone who ever offered an unprovoked threat of violence while in official capacity to be beneficial for humanity as a whole. I think it was a mistake not to execute anyone who ever wore Gestapo or Stasi or NKVD uniform the moment we got our hands on their necks. On that I disagree with less impulsive friends here...
QKRTHNU
Member
To all the responses talking about concentration camps:
If you're in a camp it's over. WAYYYY Toooo Late to act.
I can't believe hundreds of thousands of people would go along with being moved to a ghetto in the first place (again, I'm not talking about concentration camps. I'm talking years before this.)
If they would have resisted upfront it would have saved many lives (Yes, hindsight is 20/20)
But on an individual / family level if you're being forced to live in a certain area and have a myriad of restrictions placed on you, then you are basically a prisoner. And if you aren't physically restrained in some fashion and don't leave than you are a WILLING prisoner.
But that thought was kind of secondary in my post anyway.
My main point was about that execution scene.
As has already been mentioned, it was a hard lesson to learn, but the survivors and successive generations now know better.
If you're in a camp it's over. WAYYYY Toooo Late to act.
I can't believe hundreds of thousands of people would go along with being moved to a ghetto in the first place (again, I'm not talking about concentration camps. I'm talking years before this.)
If they would have resisted upfront it would have saved many lives (Yes, hindsight is 20/20)
But on an individual / family level if you're being forced to live in a certain area and have a myriad of restrictions placed on you, then you are basically a prisoner. And if you aren't physically restrained in some fashion and don't leave than you are a WILLING prisoner.
But that thought was kind of secondary in my post anyway.
My main point was about that execution scene.
As has already been mentioned, it was a hard lesson to learn, but the survivors and successive generations now know better.
Last edited by a moderator:
Baba Louie
Member
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2002
- Messages
- 3,831
And it goes on today.
Bosnia, Iraq, Rwanda...
And here we sit, and there, they died by the thousands and thousands.
Q, you write...
"But that thought was kind of secondary in my post anyway.
My main point was about that execution scene. They must have either
1. Wanted to die
2. Feared protesting their own death for the sake of others
3. Been outright cowards"
How about....
4. Unarmed
Now, switch it to No. 1 and drop the other 3?
That sounds about right to me.
Adios
Bosnia, Iraq, Rwanda...
And here we sit, and there, they died by the thousands and thousands.
Q, you write...
"But that thought was kind of secondary in my post anyway.
My main point was about that execution scene. They must have either
1. Wanted to die
2. Feared protesting their own death for the sake of others
3. Been outright cowards"
How about....
4. Unarmed
Now, switch it to No. 1 and drop the other 3?
That sounds about right to me.
Adios
Cosmoline
Member
I get the sense that many posters simply don't have much knowledge of European history. The Jews of Europe had long been periodically rounded up. It had been happening on and off for two thousand years. Pogroms weren't uncommon in the East, and frankly just putting all the Jews in one neighborhood probably seemed mild punishment to the Jews of the period. In fact, many probably thought it was best to keep away from the madness overtaking the continent. I have no doubt they expected to weather this storm as they had weathered so many others. In fact, they DID weather the storm. So maybe they knew best after all.
While this nation hasn't seen anything on the level of the Nazi oppression, there is plenty of evidence from our own history to show that when one group seeks to exterminate another, 99% of the oppressors do nothing to stop it. But we also see that the oppressed who fight back the hardest in the end have survived longest. Native tribes are good example. Those who fought back were the least impacted by white diseases and survived in larger numbers than those who accepted white rule peacefully. Many of the peaceful tribes went extinct, in fact. Killed off through a combination of murder, disease, and absorbtion.
The one great lesson we can take from all of this is to keep a good stock pile of ammo handy in case we get to play the role of oppressed minority one day. If you're not ready for it, you might as well just turn around and take that bullet to the back of the head.
While this nation hasn't seen anything on the level of the Nazi oppression, there is plenty of evidence from our own history to show that when one group seeks to exterminate another, 99% of the oppressors do nothing to stop it. But we also see that the oppressed who fight back the hardest in the end have survived longest. Native tribes are good example. Those who fought back were the least impacted by white diseases and survived in larger numbers than those who accepted white rule peacefully. Many of the peaceful tribes went extinct, in fact. Killed off through a combination of murder, disease, and absorbtion.
The one great lesson we can take from all of this is to keep a good stock pile of ammo handy in case we get to play the role of oppressed minority one day. If you're not ready for it, you might as well just turn around and take that bullet to the back of the head.
spacemanspiff
Senior Member
no flame intended, but thats a very ignorant statement to make. consider the psychological terror the nazis used. if you didnt comply they would persecute your family. they used every method they could think of to force their subjects to be 100% under their control.
if you were faced with being tortured or killed and your noncompliance with your captors demands would result in your family suffering further, what would you do? be a hero for a minute or two? or would you be thinking about the welfare of your loved ones?
consider also their living conditions. they worked in physical labor continuously, were fed very little, were very malnourished and dehydrated. what kind of defense could they put up?
jacketch
Member
Even cowards can run away!
Do nothing vs run away?
Seems like the slimeball who directed the movie (Roman Polanski)made the choice to run, all the way to France. When he comes back to face the music I'll consider seeing the movie!
Do nothing vs run away?
Seems like the slimeball who directed the movie (Roman Polanski)made the choice to run, all the way to France. When he comes back to face the music I'll consider seeing the movie!
winstonsmith
Member
How dare you. HOW DARE YOU.
I'm sorry. I'll calm down enough to speak intelligibly.
"Where people really this spineless?"
Some people were. The people that weren't and resisted were shot. Their families along with them. If your wife and children were also in a camp, the Nazis would know who they were. They kept meticulously good records. If you resisted in any way, they would hang your family. In front of you. Then they would kill you. Be threatened with that, and still talk tough.
I think that if you take your knowledge of the holocaust from a movie, then you might want to reconsider forming any strong opinions on it. You'll probably embarass yourself and anger others. Like some of you have.
Oh yeah, and have you ever heard of the Warsaw Revolt? Oh yeah, forget about that, did you. Or maybe you didn't even know. I hope, for my sanities sake, that its the first one.
Some of you are talking about those people like they were some sort of lemmings. How about you stop talking about my people like that and saying "oh I would have done this?" I'm not angry enough those few people that are saying these things that I don't pray to g-d that they don't have to go through it.
Someone mentioned being physically restrained. I think that large amounts of well fed Nazi guards with shmeissers and german sherperds guarding the perimeters, plus electric fenses constitutes physical restraints.
We Jews are not lemmings. In fact, many of the jewish families I know are stockpiling weapons for the "Fourth Reich."
In one of the early posters defense, however, age has nothing to do with it. I'm 14.
I'm sorry. I'll calm down enough to speak intelligibly.
"Where people really this spineless?"
Some people were. The people that weren't and resisted were shot. Their families along with them. If your wife and children were also in a camp, the Nazis would know who they were. They kept meticulously good records. If you resisted in any way, they would hang your family. In front of you. Then they would kill you. Be threatened with that, and still talk tough.
I think that if you take your knowledge of the holocaust from a movie, then you might want to reconsider forming any strong opinions on it. You'll probably embarass yourself and anger others. Like some of you have.
Oh yeah, and have you ever heard of the Warsaw Revolt? Oh yeah, forget about that, did you. Or maybe you didn't even know. I hope, for my sanities sake, that its the first one.
Some of you are talking about those people like they were some sort of lemmings. How about you stop talking about my people like that and saying "oh I would have done this?" I'm not angry enough those few people that are saying these things that I don't pray to g-d that they don't have to go through it.
Someone mentioned being physically restrained. I think that large amounts of well fed Nazi guards with shmeissers and german sherperds guarding the perimeters, plus electric fenses constitutes physical restraints.
We Jews are not lemmings. In fact, many of the jewish families I know are stockpiling weapons for the "Fourth Reich."
In one of the early posters defense, however, age has nothing to do with it. I'm 14.
QKRTHNU you miss the point because you look at the world from the modern perspective and know what happened in WWII. You do not have the world view of the European Jews in the Nazi age. The Jews did not know and did not want to believe they would be executed in the Nazi concentration camps any more than the Japanese-Americans expected to be executed in the American concentration camps. Jews were second class citizens in Europe the way Blacks were second class citizens in the South after the American Civil War. Protesting would only get you beaten up or killed. Ghettos were actually safer than living elsewhere if it was even permitted. It is well known that most people entering gas chambers thought they were going into showers. If your whole life you have been treated only one small step above a slave it is pretty hard to resist and fight back. An example to consider, how often do unarmed modern American people fight back when accosted by armed robbers or kidnappers even when they know they may be killed without warning?
goalie
Member
All I know is that the Jews in Israel will fight now, and who can blame them? What pisses me off is people who act suprised when the Israelis use violence against those that hate them and try to bomb busloads of children. While I think they should quit expanding the settlements, I wholeheartedly agree with meeting the force and hatred of those attacking you with genocidal intentions with superior force. They tried pacifism and it didn't work. More power to them.
winstonsmith
Member
A punk song I had the misfortune of hearing addressed the Israel subject in a way that I agreed with
They said: "The deed is the gun in your hand."
They acted like that was a bad thing.
The Jews escaping from the holocaust took that land that was desert and made it into a mediterranean paradise through massive landscaping and irrigation projects. The Palestinians want back what was there's for no more than 2000 years, but my peoples for the approximately 4000 before it?
In 55 years Israel has done more for the world than "Palestine" had in slightly less than 2000.
Two words for the Arabs who want "their" land back.
MOLON LABE
They said: "The deed is the gun in your hand."
They acted like that was a bad thing.
The Jews escaping from the holocaust took that land that was desert and made it into a mediterranean paradise through massive landscaping and irrigation projects. The Palestinians want back what was there's for no more than 2000 years, but my peoples for the approximately 4000 before it?
In 55 years Israel has done more for the world than "Palestine" had in slightly less than 2000.
Two words for the Arabs who want "their" land back.
MOLON LABE
jmbg29
member
So far, Correia is the one making the most sense.
Figure out where you draw the line, and proactively figure out what you are going to do if/when the line gets crossed.
You all can rag on QKRTHNU because he dared to question the pathetic outcome of the holocaust. Or we all can learn from it by asking ourselves *** are we going to do to see to it that this never happens again.
Personaly, I'm going to continue to teach each and every person that wants to, to learn to defend themselves, kith and kin, hearth and home, God and country, etc... as best as I can.
Everything else is crap.
Figure out where you draw the line, and proactively figure out what you are going to do if/when the line gets crossed.
You all can rag on QKRTHNU because he dared to question the pathetic outcome of the holocaust. Or we all can learn from it by asking ourselves *** are we going to do to see to it that this never happens again.
Personaly, I'm going to continue to teach each and every person that wants to, to learn to defend themselves, kith and kin, hearth and home, God and country, etc... as best as I can.
Everything else is crap.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
