The quality of handgun casings

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BJung

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What is your opinion on the quality of handgun casings and what helps you assemble a more accurate load. I've read online that Star is preferred. At the range I mostly have picked up Winchester, Remington, Speer, Federal, and others. Having reloaded using Winchester and Remington 9mm and 40cal brass, do you think reloads with Winchester brass shoots a better group? From my testloads, my Remington brass testloads are not grouping as well and I'm wondering if it's the casing. If a Bullseye shooter were to choose between the two, would he or she have a preferrance?
 
I load quite a bit of Starline brass for .38 Special, 357 Magnum and .45 ACP and not to forget .38 Super. I buy the Starline stuff 1,000 at a time, I also have piles of Winchester and Remington brass in those calibers. Tell you the truth as to how it plays out for me? I see more difference in primers and bullets than I do in case manufacture. My neighbor just got his old S&W Model 60 from his brother. I loaded 100 rounds of .38 Special new Winchester brass I had. Using 3.0 grains of Bullseye under a 148 grain DEWC. This week we will shoot them in hid Model 60 and maybe my S&W Model 28. We will see how things pan out but again unless it it beat up range garbage I find for as given load the brass contributed less variation than everything else.

Just My Take....
Ron
 
BJung said:
From my testloads, my Remington brass testloads are not grouping as well and I'm wondering if it's the casing.
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How are you conducting your tests? All the details, please.
 
Talking strictly 9mm and .40S&W, the only difference I can tell is the thickness. Starline and Fiocchi seem pretty consistent while CBC and MXT are less so. Does it effect accuracy? Not sure. I’m not a good enough shot to be able to tell. The only thing I can say is that the less consistent brass feeds as well as the consistent brass and I don’t typically have problems with ejection from any brand. Sorry if that’s not much help but the differences that look really significant like wasp-waist and bulging don’t seem to make any difference in shooting.
 
I’ve never seen any brand of brass advertised as “more accurate” than its competitors. I’m pretty sure if anyone thought their brass was more accurate than their competitors, they’d tell us. I could be wrong about that, but then, it wouldn’t affect my brass choices anyway. ymmv
 
I shoot all of my testloads from a sandbag to reduce shooter error. The distance is 18 yards. I shoot different bullets per case. So, for 9mm, I shoot the Lee 122gr TC cast bullets. For the 40cal, I use the Lee 170TC bullets. For Speer, I use MP hex hp cast bullets, and for the Fed Casings I'm using the MP round hp bullets. I use Winchester SPP for the Rem and Win casings and CCI for the Federal and Speer casings.
 
BJung said:
I shoot all of my testloads from a sandbag to reduce shooter error. The distance is 18 yards. I shoot different bullets per case. So, for 9mm, I shoot the Lee 122gr TC cast bullets. For the 40cal, I use the Lee 170TC bullets. For Speer, I use MP hex hp cast bullets, and for the Fed Casings I'm using the MP round hp bullets. I use Winchester SPP for the Rem and Win casings and CCI for the Federal and Speer casings.
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My goodness. You're all over the map. You can't conclude anything from that method.

You need to use the same bullet, powder and charge, and primer for all the different cases.

Then you'll need a large round count. Probably at least 25 shots for each brand of brass.
 
Accuracy is consistency. Now in 38 and 357 remmington are a lot thinner than winchester. I've loaded a ton of 9 and the cbc and s+b are a lot harder to size and to seat bullets. I separate almost everything by case stamp and when shot in those groups my shooting doesn't show a difference in pistol. My test batch in 357 was nickle federal and In 10 loadings no failures even with solid crimp and seating large bullets like 180s. The RP has zero issues with cast or jacketed 158s but buckle with 180s.
 
I didn't mention that of my 9mm and 40cal TC cast loads, I use both Remington and Winchester brass. My testloads with Winchester seemed to be better but I haven't taken to time to take an accuracy load and compaing two sets of identical components except the brass yet, nor shot a series of testloads to see if the accuracy loads are the same. The only exception would be a set of 4-160gr MP Hollow point testloads; the hex hp using Speer brass and CCI primers and the round hp using Fed and CCI primers. The round grouped well with 6.6 AA5 and the hex grouped better at 6.2gr AA5. Only the hp pin was different in casting the bullets. The PC for the hex hp was gold and the clear for the round but that shouldn't make a difference. I recently shot testloads using Winchester brass and Remington brass with 9-122gr TC cast bullets. The Winchester would show some good group. I can't say the same with the testloads using Remington brass. I was hoping the Remington brass would be better because the case walls are thinner and create less swaging of the cast bullet but this might not be the case. Tests will have to be done. I'm puting the question out to see if anyone had any insights on this. BTW. I'm more of a rifleman. I once carefully weight separated all the 40 cal JHP bullets I had at the time, along with casings and carefully loading my cartridges. The case weights and bullets weights were all the same and the load shot well so for fun, I would shoot at clay pigeons at 100 yards for fun. I didn't hit the clay pigeon every time but atleast 2/10 times. I would sit and rest my handgun on my knee to shoot. Great fun.
 
How many shots are in your groups?

Are you shooting a single group or several groups?

What are the measured group sizes?
 
When I was younger and just getting started I only used Winchester brass (probably because that's what my mentor used)

When I got older and more experience, I realized that for my blasting ammo (9mm, .40, .38spl. I didn't really see a difference with those cartridges so I used mixed brass (tossing obvious junk like Amerc (sp) and most foreign stuff)

Other calibers like .357 and .44mag I stuck with Winchester because I always had good luck.

Now, 10mm I'm Starline all the way; strong and very consistent.
I just hate when it gets launched into low earth orbit never to be seen again...

... I really need to get a 10mm revolver.
 
Y-T71 said:
When I was younger and just getting started I only used Winchester brass (probably because that's what my mentor used)

When I got older and more experience, I realized that for my blasting ammo (9mm, .40, .38spl. I didn't really see a difference with those cartridges so I used mixed brass (tossing obvious junk like Amerc (sp) and most foreign stuff)

Other calibers like .357 and .44mag I stuck with Winchester because I always had good luck.

Now, 10mm I'm Starline all the way; strong and very consistent.
I just hate when it gets launched into low earth orbit never to be seen again...

... I really need to get a 10mm revolver.
Click to expand...

Maybe you need to construct a net to catch your brass. I saw two fellows with wood clamps attached to the bench and extensions with nets to as a makeshift bullet catcher. I need to do the same with sks brass
 
Yeah, I know I need to do something, my old brass catcher (my son) lost interest rather quickly after holding a handful of piping hot brass.

I tried showing him how to catch it in his ballcap but by then he wanted no part of it.

Kids today!
 
fxvr5 said:
How many shots are in your groups?

Are you shooting a single group or several groups?

What are the measured group sizes?
Click to expand...

Very little, between 6-10 rounds because I'm running out of primers. I shoot my handgun like a rifle, sitting, resting the handgun on a sandbag, and carefully maintaining the front sight on the 3/4" dot at 18 yards and carefully adding pressure onto the trigger. I'm not aiming for the bullseye but looking for a pattern. After I find the load with a good group, I make plans to repeat the session but test loads with different seating depths.
 
Remington brass has a reputation as having thinner necks. That may add to your problems by having less neck tension on those rounds. I personally shoot using mixed range brass and find no detectable difference on target between brands. Might be I can't shoot the difference these days. Anyway it is an interesting observation on your part.
 
Y-T71 said:
Yeah, I know I need to do something, my old brass catcher (my son) lost interest rather quickly after holding a handful of piping hot brass.

I tried showing him how to catch it in his ballcap but by then he wanted no part of it.

Kids today!
Click to expand...
Piping hot brass reminds me of a WW2 story my Dad told. He was a merchant marine sailor on Liberty ships.

In Naples they came under air attack. Each ship had a couple of AA guns manned by US Navy gunners.

As brass casings ejected out of guns the Navy guys told a young merchant sailor to toss them overboard. They didn’t warn him the cases would be super hot and would burn his hands badly.

While their fellow sailor was still screaming in pain, the merchant seaman threw the Navy gunners overboard.
 
FROGO207 said:
Remington brass has a reputation as having thinner necks. That may add to your problems by having less neck tension on those rounds. I personally shoot using mixed range brass and find no detectable difference on target between brands. Might be I can't shoot the difference these days. Anyway it is an interesting observation on your part.
Click to expand...
A future test of testloads without a crimp vs.another with a crimp is worth exploring.
 
When I work up a load I normally sort brass by headstamp. Once I'm satisfied with a load I relax my "requirements" and often go with mixed brass. Yes, Starline brass is a premium brass for reloaders, but I cannot tell if it is a lot better than the other American mfg brass. I don't count reloads on cases anymore, but I can't remember any cases that fail sooner than others...
 
I'm don't load my ammo to the upper edges of performance.

1st: I find most of "accurate" loads somewhere in the middle to slightly above middle so mixed brass isn't an issue in that regard.

2nd: I'm lucky that, if a .22 isn't big enough, I'll grab a 9mm/.38spl, still not big enough, the .40/.357/.45 .44, you get the point; I have options so I'm don't have a need to push performance under my normal circumstances so mixed brass is fine for my needs here as well.

Now, when we get to cartridges that's sole purpose can be performance like 10mm I do use one brand and it's exclusively Starline because it's a brand I trust.
 
First off, I load for accuracy and function. All I ask of my rounds is for them to hit what I aim at and cycle the gun. I don't hunt or have a power factor to meet. Also I cast my own bullets and powder coat them, size them for each gun, and load specific loads for each gun. As far as cases go, the only time I have sorted them is when I'm loading self defence loads, I use Speer nickel cases with Gold Dots. I have plenty of loads that shoot very small groups in my guns all with range pickup brass of every headstamp imaginable. I don't shoot off a rest, only freehand standing and used to be able to put a mag full into a 3/4" group at 25' consistantly with cast bullets and assorted brass.

I'd expect sorting brass might be beneficial if you were shooting at 50 yards+ or in serious competition, but I am not doing that so I haven't pursued that adventure.
 
Unless you are a match shooter , shooting for big money and prizes ... when it comes to reloading handgun ammo to be shot under 25 yards at the range ... Brass is Brass ... reload whatever brass you can get your hands on .
NRA Match shooters did testing of 38 special loads in brass of all one make/headstamp vs the same loads in mixed brass ... they did the shooting in a Ransom Rest ... the differences in groupp size / scores were only slightly better in the matched headstamp targets than in the mixed headstamp at 50 yards !!!
At 25 yards the edge went to the mixed brass loads ...
They ended the experiment with the consensus ... if matched brass makes you fell better ...do it but it's probably not a big factor in 38 special cast WC loads at 25 - 50 yards .
What did make a difference was the bullet used ... factory HBWC did better than home cast flat based WC the shooters cast , sized and lubed themselves .

My take on all this ... the bullet is more important than the brass case !
Gary
 
I like sorting even 9mm for two reasons. One is that it looks neater in the box. The other is it makes it easier to track and separate loads and separate my brass from random floor brass. I tend to use Winchester and blazer and they all work the same. I toss the R-P brass into the reserve. Not because I don’t think they work fine, but I have a bucket of them and figure they make a good reserve.
 
I have a few handgun loads that shoot better than me. :D
I separate and load by headstamp, but it is not set to one headstamp. So one time I may use Winchester, or F.C., or R-P, etc.
I don't compete, except with myself. And I only use a rest when verifying the sights, or shoot over a chrony.
 
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