The realities of the street

[Kleanbore]

CA Raider, that is the law in Virginia. It is rooted in common law. I'm not sure how you think it may differ from California law.

Other related court rulings make it clear that fright is not a sufficient indication of a reasonable belief; that the defender may not have provoked the incident; and that deadly force may not be died to defend against punches (I'm sure there are extenuating circumstances).

 

[taliv]

"You guys do what you do best! Find something simple and complicate it!"

-Burt Gummer

 

[Old Dog]

"If you have a reasonably held, good faith belief, based on objective fact, that you or another innocent person is faced with the imminent threat of serious bodily injury, then you are authorized to use such force as is reasonably necessary, up to and including deadly force, to stop the threat."

Yep, all well and good ... BUT -- the catch is, one must be able to clearly articulate the WHY of one's belief that one is faced with the imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury.

Here is where the doctrine of the "reasonable person" comes in to play as well. While the courts have upheld this concept since the '80s, one must consider truly just how objective and reasonable the (1) responding cops are -- their reports are crucial; (2) just how accurate witness recollection is -- clue: it's never; most times witnesses can't get race correct nor whether someone was armed with a deadly weapon or what color clothes they wore; (3) just how reasonable the members of a grand jury can be -- clue: they will often rule according to their personal beliefs, political bent and experience, which is usually zero; (4) just how motivated the prosecutor is -- do you even want the process going that far?; finally (5) just how reasonable and objective a jury of one's peers can be -- if you get this far along, are you a praying person?

Let's not discount the role of the media and the self-serving sharks in the water (see Jackson, Sharpton, et al). Name of George Zimmerman ring a bell?

You can have all the great laws on the books of your state, but it's still gonna come down to what you say, how you say it, and then, after that, it's all a crap-shoot.

 

[Kleanbore]

^^^^^^^^^

Good put.

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

It looks like after 150 replies pretty much everything that can be said about this has been said and the thread has shifted being the scope of the original post.

I'm going to stick a fork in this one.

Thanks to everyone for their participation.