THe reason i like the .40 SW

[easyg]

The 40 is better for people who aren't comfortable hitting their target with 6-8 rounds. If you are comfortable shooting a revolver and 6 rounds, or a semi-auto with 7-8 rounds, then the 357 magnum and 45acp are better calibers. If you aren't comfortable hitting your target, need a lot more rounds to compensate, or want to audition for lethal weapon pt6, then the 40sw is a much better caliber.

There are other factors to consider.
For example: handgun size.
If one wants to carry a sub-compact, but also wants a more powerful round than the 9mm, the .40 is a great choice.

Sure, you can get a .45 sub-compact but you get less bullets and the handgun will typically be larger and heavier and than a .40 sub-compact.


And sure, you can carry a .357 magnum snubbie, but they are not the easiest or most pleasant of handguns to shoot....most folks struggle to control them in rapid fire and many folks actually find them painful to shoot.

So again, the .40 sub-compact makes sense.

 

[figment]

guess it depends on who is swinging it?

+ aluminum or wood.

 

[Blakenzy]

+ aluminum or wood.

+ steroid-era MLB or post-scandal (homeruns have dropped since, you know)

 

[LeontheProfessional]

Contradiction

the 45acp is a better caliber because it's a larger hole, thus causing more blood loss and the increased possibility of hitting a vital spot

The 40 has a slight diameter advantage over the 357

There is the same difference in diameter between 40 and 45 as there is between 357 and 40. Therefore with that argument 40 would be better than 357 because of a bigger hole.

Also the 40 has a decent amount more energy than the 45 and since you already said that 5/100 inch does not matter the 40 is clearly better.

basically the only advantage the 45 has over the 40 is that heavier bullets can be had and the only advantage that 357 has over the 40 is that it can travel faster. However, since you already negated that size does not matter when comparing 40 to 357 and that speed does not matter when comparing 40 to 45 I guess all three rounds are equal or you have no base for comparison. And I would tend to go with the latter.

The 40 is better for people who aren't comfortable hitting their target with 6-8 rounds.

So I am guessing you are in favor of the AWB because according to you larger capacity has no place. What about multiple attackers?

 

[saturno_v]

LeontheProfessional


Do not worry about 45 aficionados comments...the 40 and 45 are pretty much equivalents on every count, no matter what the fortyfivers say....I do not even engage in that kind of discussion anymore...

I heard that the 40 S&W is actually superior to the 45 when it comes to light barriers penetration between you and the target but I never read any definitive technical article about it.

In terms of pure power (assuming full house loads) the rank is the following:

1) 10mm Auto

2) 357 Mag (slightly less powerful)

3) 40 S&W and 45 ACP (tie)

 

[Deltaboy1984]

I got a Sigma 40VE and I love it. It is on my hip as I type.

 

[Hokkmike]

Most of the state and local police I know have adopted the .40.

There must be a reason.

Of course the US Army uses the 9 - so there you go!

I AM a .40 man!!!

 

[Strahley]

If I want knock down power, I'll grab a sledgehammer

9mm, .357SIG, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, whatever. They are all weak handgun cartridges. Arguing over which is the best is pointless. Any of them will get the job done if you get your job done, and all of them are a poor compromise because you can't take a long gun with you. Pick whichever one you shoot the best and your budget can afford

This "knockdown power" idea is silly

 

[hankdatank1362]

That test was the biggest farce masquerading as anything even remotely scientific as I have ever seen. My jaw was agape the entire time with shcok and disbelief.

"Now you know how it stacks up in knock-down power (which is as imaginary of a term as pixie dust), how quick it is to grab (really? REALLY? Are you freaking serious, passing this off as research?) and how well it can be shot one-handed (Yeah, like no one ever shoots with a proper two-handed grip, or that everyone has the same skill level with one hand)... three very important aspects of choosing a concealed carry pistol." - Larry Potterfield

Wow. I guess things like size, weight, capacity... you know, actual QUANTIFIABLE statistics are gobbledeygook.

That said, I love SIGS, and my CCW is a 226 in .40S&W... but that video was crap.

 

[Fishman777]

Disagree

1. .357 magnum
2. 10 mm


Buffalo Bore's Heavy hard cast .357 magnum will produce over 1500 fps out of a 6" barrel. If you do the math, that is over 900 ft/lbs of energy.

900 ft\lbs of energy is sick!!

Then factor in the flat nose bullet design, the hard cast lead, and the superior section density of 180 grain .357 over 180 grain .40 S&W.

It is my opinion that this loading of .357 is more devasting than any 10 mm I've ever seen.

This .357 magnum is more devasting than some factory .44 magnum ammo.

 

[saturno_v]

Fishman777

The only Buffalo Bore advertised load that reach 1500 fps+ in a 5" or 6" revolver is the 125 gr. HP (1543 fps for the 5" S&W Mod. 27 and 1707 fps in the 6" Ruger GP.100)

If you do the math, that equals to 660 ft/lb for the S&W revolver and 808 ft/lb for the Ruger.....significantly lower than your 900 ft/lb claim (and with a very light bullet)

Nothing prevent you to put an aftermarket 6" barrel on a Glock 20 or S&W 1006...or using an EAA Witness Hunter in 6"

Double Tap has a 135 gr. 10mm load (Nosler JHP) that can put out that kind of numbers (1600 fps, 767 ft/lb) out of a 4.5" barrel....

 

[Fishman777]

Check out this link:

http://www.gunblast.com/MilesFortis-AKChurch_BuffaloBore.htm

With a 6" inch single action revolver, the average velocity generated with the Buffalo Bore Heavy .357 magnum is 1508 fps with the 180 grain, hard cast ammo. This was an average of five measurements.

Plug those numbers into the energy calculator at the following link:

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/rescources/calculators/php/energy.htm?bw=180&bv=1508

The energy is calculated as 909 ft/lbs.

I don't mean to crap on the 10mm, but I've never seen these kind of numbers with a 10 mm round.
This same ammo will produce about 1375 fps out of a 4" barrel (according to Buffalo Bore's website).

The energy for these numbers is 756 ft/lbs with a 180 grain bullet. This is with a 4" barrel, not a 4.5" barrel. It would be almost 800 ft/lbs with a 4.5" barrel.

Also, the sectional density of a 180 grain .357 magnum round is 0.202. This is pretty amazing for a handgun round. This will lead to very good penetration, especially with hard cast, flat nose bullets.

I don't mean to crap on the 10mm, but I've never seen numbers like these with any 10mm load.

 

[okespe04]

By golly if you like the .40 s&w I think you should love it all day long and all through the night too

 

[LeontheProfessional]

Fishman,

Those number are impressive but the 10mm does have another advantage. It has a larger diameter thus making for a larger hole.

 

[saturno_v]

Fishman777

There is a THR member that got very impressive numbers out of its Glock 20 with a 6" aftermarket barrel using Double Tap loads (in the 900 ft/lb neighbourhood)..I do not remember his name, I hope he will show up and give us some details.

The numbers that gunblast did get from that particular revolver are very impressive, however the published numbers on the Buffalo Bore website are more sedate

They claim that their 180 gr. Hard Cast Gas Checked got 1302 fps out of a 3" S&W J frame, 1375 fps out of a 4" S&W L Frame Mountain Gun and 1398 fps out of a 5" S&W Mod. 27 revolver

So it comes to a maximum of 783 ft/lb out of the 5" revolver.

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=100

Buffalo Bore own 10mm 180 gr. load claim 782 ft/lb out of a Glock 20 (4.5" barrel)

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=114

So I guess that revolver tested by gunblast is particularly performant with that load...


However, I agree that the claim that some of the 10mm fans make that the 10mm "is somewhat between a 357 Mag and a 41 Mag in performance" is an exaggeration...at their full potential 357 Mag and 10mm Auto are pretty much equivalent.

 

[agtman]

Fishman777 Check out this link:

http://www.gunblast.com/MilesFortis-...uffaloBore.htm

With a 6" inch single action revolver, the average velocity generated with the Buffalo Bore Heavy .357 magnum is 1508 fps with the 180 grain, hard cast ammo. This was an average of five measurements.

Plug those numbers into the energy calculator at the following link:

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/resc...bw=180&bv=1508

The energy is calculated as 909 ft/lbs.

I don't mean to crap on the 10mm, but I've never seen these kind of numbers with a 10 mm round.
This same ammo will produce about 1375 fps out of a 4" barrel (according to Buffalo Bore's website).

The energy for these numbers is 756 ft/lbs with a 180 grain bullet. This is with a 4" barrel, not a 4.5" barrel. It would be almost 800 ft/lbs with a 4.5" barrel.

Also, the sectional density of a 180 grain .357 magnum round is 0.202. This is pretty amazing for a handgun round. This will lead to very good penetration, especially with hard cast, flat nose bullets.

I don't mean to crap on the 10mm, but I've never seen numbers like these with any 10mm load.

Comparisons like this (fps/fpe stats) are always invalid unless you factor for barrel-length, and to be valid the tubes have to be of equal or nearly equal length.

A Glock 20's 4.6" tube against a 6" or 8" .357 revolver barrel isn't a fair comparison of anything.

It becomes more invalid when you understand that a revolver has 6" or 8" of actual rifled barrel, whereas a 4.6" semi-auto barrel INCLUDES in that measurement the chamber in which the cartridge sits. So a "4.6" barrel" is more like 3.9" or 4" of actual barrel length within which the bullet must build up velocity - hence the disparity in the resulting fps/fpe stats

The fps/fpe stats of DT's high-performance 10mm loads are generally chronographed using a stock Glock 20 (4.6" tube).

What would these same DT loads do from a 6" or 8" 10mm 610 revolver, as against a 6" or 8" .357 using BB's loads?

C'mon, guys, think it through ...

 

[saturno_v]

Agtman


The revolver has a cylinder-barrel gap to consider though where an autoloader doesn't......


Again, I think that at their full spec, 357 Mag and 10mm Auto are equivalent..and it makes sense if you think about it...the 357 Magnum is loaded at 35.000 psi max SAAMI spec while the 10mm Auto is loaded at 37.500 psi but the 357 has probably a slight case capacity advantage.

 

[agtman]

The revolver has a cylinder-barrel gap to consider though where an autoloader doesn't

Yes, I get that.

But how is a wheelie's "gas leakage" from its cylinder-gap measured against, or offset by, the autoloader "chamber" disadvantage? Any data showing the effect of one versus the other on what fps/fpe are lost?

Again, I think that at their full spec, 357 Mag and 10mm Auto are equivalent..and it makes sense if you think about it...the 357 Magnum is loaded at 37.500 psi max SAAMI spec while the 10mm Auto is loaded at 35.000 psi but the 357 has probably a slight case capacity advantage.

That's probably true.

OTOH, the projectiles for 10mm loads offer a wider frontal area for impact and penetration (larger caliber). And, at least in its "heavy & fast" manifestations, 10mm loads can run with 210gn, 220gn and 230gn slugs, some of them hard-cast.

In factory loads, what's the .357 topping out with for hunting or woods carry? Heaviest I've seen is 180gns (?).

 

[saturno_v]

In factory loads, what's the .357 topping out with for hunting or woods carry? Heaviest I've seen is 180gns (?).

Double Tap produce a 200 gr. 357 Mag load

What I do not really understand is the S&W 610 chambered in 10mm Auto...you have already the 357 Mag and 41 Mag for revolvers....it seems overlapping to me...

 

[Fishman777]

Excuse me??

I understand the barrel length issue and addressed that in my post. Did you actually read it?

I mentioned the performance of Buffalo Bore's Heavy .357 out a 6" barrel and a 4" barrel. Out of the 4" barrel, the 180 grain .357 magnum round achieves at velocity of 1375 fps and 756 muzzle energy.

The 180 grain 10 mm ammo that you mentioned is cited as achieving 1350 fps out of a 4.6" barrel. Muzzle Energy calculations factor in two things: grains of the bullet and velocity. The correct calculation given those two factors should be 729, not 782 foot/pounds of energy. Enter those numbers in any ballistic calculator and you'll see that I'm correct. With the 4" barrel, the .357 magnum is more powerful, but not by much. You add another 0.6 inches of barrel and the Buffalo Bore .357 is probably over 800 ft/lbs.

I couldn't care less about the differences between autoloaders and revolvers. I've owned both and understand how they work. I only care about what comes out of the business end. That is what these ballistic calculations are based on. The way that gun companies classify autoloader and revolver barrel lengths is irrelavent here. The barrel length, as measured on a revolver, only includes the barrel, not the cylinder. I'm not trying to marginalize the 10 mm, or autoloaders. I simply disagreed that the 10 mm was more powerful. The ammunition is similiar, but I give the edge to the .357 magnum.

 

[agtman]

Double Tap produce a 200 gr. 357 Mag load

Hadn't seen that one, thanks. I'm only familiar with DT's 10mm stuff.

What I do not really understand is the S&W 610 chambered in 10mm Auto...you have already the 357 Mag and 41 Mag for revolvers....it seems overlapping to me...

There's some overlap with the .357 and .41mags, true.

But S&W's adding a 10mm wheelie in among all the semi-automatic options means you can now long-load the cartridge in the 610 beyond its max COAL (1.260") to which it's otherwise restricted due to chambering.

You can rev it up a bit more, especially with the heavier bullets, like the 230gn WFNGC hard-casts, with less pressure. I've loaded some jacketed bullets out to 1.400", and I'm still experimenting with loads that I wouldn't even think of trying in one of my 10mm semis.

A few years ago, out of my 6.5" 610 wheelie (a 1st Gen "no dash"), I chrono-ed a no-longer-made DT 10mm 220gn poly FP load at 1257fps for 772fpe.

The official "box-flap" velocity for that load was 1125fps, as derived from a stock G20's 4.6" barrel. McNett does his load development in Utah, at higher elevation, whereas I shot this in the flat midwest on a hot summer day. This sort of illustrates how all the different factors have to be considered when making velocity comparisons.

Still, a 220gn 10mm slug @ 1257fps is right up there with some .41mag loads.

'Course, the deer it's intended for wouldn't notice the difference, or care ...