New Glock Handgun Sights

[D.R. Middlebrooks]

Thanks David, I REALLY DO appreciate input from a shooter like yourself and newbies as well...

It's on my "TO DO" list trust me...

 

[D.R. Middlebrooks]

I agree that an Allen head would suck for the reasons listed. I've stripped out plenty of Phillips head screws.

Me too...with DRILL DRIVERS!!

But I have rolled over a heck of a lot of small Allen Head Sockets over the years...on gun sights!!!

I agree, Torx would be better. But just not practical in all applications...

 

[Jim Watson]

Evolution from the ring sight to the V notch back to the square notch, I see.

 

[Sapper771]

Is there a warranty and/or customer satisfaction guarantee with these sights?

 

[tnglock19]

Look nice now just make them for the sr9...lol.... no really make them for the sr9

 

[W.E.G.]

The silver color on the rear sight screw is just wrong.

Otherwise, looks like a very impressive product.
The cinderblock test was awesome.

I have no problem with the Phillips slot-type.
Not like that screw is ever going to be touched once the sight is zeroed.

 

[D.R. Middlebrooks]

History of Pro-Sights...

Evolution from the ring sight to the V notch back to the square notch, I see.

Well, not really...

For those of you who don’t know what Jim’s talking about, I’ve been building my own gun sights for 15 years now.

The first fiber optic sight ever developed for handguns was my Ghost Ring sight called the Pro-Sight® “Circle Dot”. Critics said it wouldn't shoot, but Chad Dietrich used it to win the 1998 NRA Bianchi Cup with the Highest Score ever fired with a stock gun.

They immediately outlawed the sight, but the record stood for about five years. Personally, I found it was just too tall and the thin blade was too fragile for tactical/carry use. IDPA outlawed Ghost Ring sights because of it, so I moved on.

The next generation model was the Pro-Sight® V-DOT. It was similar to the XS sights but correctly sized to shoot well. Critics won said that sight wouldn't shoot either, but we won a bunch of major titles with it. I find it great for older eyes, and still one of my favorite sight pictures.

This new Combat Carry Pro-Sight® with the Round Dot and Square Notch sight picture is not new at all. Ken Tapp used it to win the 1998 National Police Combat Championships setting new records for speed and lowest aggregate times which still stand. Daniel Horner used it to win the Winchester World Challenge Stock gun title and set a new record and I won the IDPA title with it as well.

Speaking of which, Pro-Sights have always had interchangeable rear blades that automatically re-zero (that's the beauty of the Total Lock Down System). So, I’m going to come out with a V-Dot version for this Combat Carry Model as well. I just need to find the time to get back on the Auto Cad...

www.TacticalShooting.com

 

[Mainsail]

Once you get the screw color fixed, I'm in for a set for my G29.

 

[bergmen]

I agree that an Allen head would suck for the reasons listed. I've stripped out plenty of Phillips head screws. That's why I suggested a Torx head in the email.

I bought some wood screws yesterday for $3.99 that were Torx head. I was tired of stripping out the phillips head screws. They thoughtfully included a Torx bit in the package. I don't envision needing to constantly change or adjust the sight once zeroed and secured, so not carrying a Torx bit in my pocket shouldn't cause a problem.

The white screw, to my mind, makes it look cheap. Like you ran out of the correct screw, so used this one instead to get the sight out the door.

Why not put a black finish on a stainless screw?

Regardless, I would buy this sight as is.

I can comment regarding machine screw drive recesses and available finishes for stainless steel fasteners.

On the drive recesses: With flat head screws, recesses with vertical drive recess features (hex-socket head or "Allen", six-lobe or "Torx") are at a distinct disadvantage because the minimum required depth of these recesses limits the size. One must use a small size recess since going larger will weaken the fastener at the head/shank junction, or limit the depth of the recess. The obvious advantages of these types of recesses is the lack of need for an axial force to minimize the chances of "cam-out". The small recess size, however, greatly increases the risk of stripping the recess. Take a look at various flat head screws with the above mentioned recesses and you can see that the size of the recess is disproportionally smaller than the shank size.

There are exceptions to this limitation that have been successfully used in various construction type fasteners. I commonly use a flat head drill screw for wood fastening that has an excellent six-lobe recess for this application. The screws are made of a hardened steel alloy and they are used in wood which has much less tortional force requirements for seating than in metal.

Enter the Phillips-type recess. The angular shape of the Phillips recess lends itself to the tapered shape of the flat head. The outside edges of the Phillips driver has a much better mechanical advantage than the outside edges of the recesses mentioned above. Physically, it is a better match. The downside to this is the tendency for a "cam-out" action that will quickly (and very effectively) destroy the recess. This is especially true with metal fasteners used to assemble metal parts.

Phillips-type recesses can be very effectively used if three very important rules are followed:

1) Match the driver to the recess. If a particular screw has a Phillips #1 recess, use ONLY a #1 Phillips driver. And this driver MUST be in good condition. Generally, if the driver is damaged such that it does not make a clean, full depth contact with the screw recess, it has been abused in the past, or is worn out, and should be discarded. Properly used Philips screwdrivers will last many, many years before needing to be replaced, but they must be replaced if worn or damaged.

2) Apply sufficient AXIAL force when tightening or loosening Phillips-type screws. Axial force is applying force along the axis of the fastener. My rule of thumb is to push with more force than I use in turning the driver. Preventing cam-out is key here and applying significant axial force (along with rule #1 above) will minimize the tendency to have this happen. Pushing strongly on the fastener is conducive to relieving forces that can prevent easily loosening and can aid in tightening.

3) Driver/fastener alignment. It is also imperative (as are rules #1 & #2 above) to have the shank of the driver be coaxial (in alignment) with the shank of the fastener. The better the alignment, the more effective rule #2 is.

So, matched Phillips driver to fastener recess, strong axial force, proper coaxial alignment.

If you are still awake, there are finishes that can be applied to stainless steel screws to make them black in color. They add cost and complexity to the fasteners in question and care must be taken to be sure of proper thread fit once they are colored. One is black nickel plating, the other is black nitride with a trade name of DuraBlack. I don't know enough about these methods to comment on them, but they are available. To me, it wouldn't be worth the hassle since when I am aligning the sights, I couldn't see the screw anyway.

Gun bluing using standard carbon steel screws is another way. These may be available commercially but since the screw in question is a custom length, this would have to be dealt with as a custom defined fastener.

Just my $0.02.

Dan

 

[D.R. Middlebrooks]

WOW!

I don't know about anyone else but I got a lot out of that (maybe because it's my sight, my baby and I've always been Mechanical/Machine Designer kinda of a guy). Thanks Dan!

Personally, I don't see a problem with the screw. You can't see it from the rear, so there's no glare looking through the notch. One guy I know blacked his out with a Sharpie and one guy put a drop of flat black paint on his. And then one guy polished his shinny bright to match the other chrome high lights on his Glock. To each his own I guess. That's what makes personalizing your guns so much fun. Speaking of which, check out these grip mods on Polymer framed guns (scroll down when you get there):

http://www.tacticalshooting.com/glock-customizing

 

[D.R. Middlebrooks]

A sight for sore eyes...

Here’s the New Pro-Sight® V-Notch rear blade.

It interchanges with the Square Notch rear blade and automatically re-zeros every time.

I’m 58 and this is the one that works best for me.

You can shot with in "in-the-notch" for ACCURACY or "out-of-the-notch" for SPEED. Just line up the top of the dot with the top of the protective wings. Works on the old Buck Horn sight principle like on the old Winchester rifles.

 

[hentown]

I was pretty interested, until I saw the method of adjustment. In my meager mind, shimming or drifting isn't adjusting. Turning a screw or two is my idea of "adjustable"...

 

[D.R. Middlebrooks]

I was pretty interested, until I saw the method of adjustment. In my meager mind, shimming or drifting isn't adjusting. Turning a screw or two is my idea of "adjustable"...

Yeah, me too…

Except for the fact that I could NOT find an adjustable sight that would hold up under our rigorous shooting and training requirements.

Frankly, I got tired of sights that would not hold zero, blades that break off, screws that strip out, pins that break, etc., etc.

FWIW: Sgt. Daniel Horner of the Army Marksmanship Unit (AMU) told me recently that he figures we have well over ¼ MILLION ROUNDS SENT DOWN RANGE using this BULLET PROOF method of adjusting sights with ZERO FAILURES.

He approves of this design. And I’ve been using it for a over a decade now on our Tactical Shooting Academy Team Guns (with over 80 major match wins to our credit).

I dunno about you, but the weak link in Glocks has always been the sights. And the weak link in adjustable sights has ALWAYS been the adjustability and the height of the sights. But we fixed all that.

Besides, how often do you REALLY need to adjust your sights?? Once, or maybe twice if the load affects POI?

 

[hentown]

I agree with everybody else that they seem to be really good, durable sights, but I just don't see them as "adjustable" sights. To me, they're fixed sights that one shims. And to your point...yep, I always go with steel sights for my Glocks, and I don't see the need to ever adjust them, after they're initially sighted-in. Seems pretty simple to me to just install steel sights of a proper height for the p.o.i./p.o.a. that one desires, and leaving them alone.

I do own some Meprolight adjustables for a Glock that I only shoot at the range. The front sight is just shy of the same height as the Empire State Bulding.

Good luck with your enterprise. Hope it goes well!!

 

[D.R. Middlebrooks]

Adjusting the Pro-Sight® is as easy as 1-2-3.

Step 1: Remove the Hold Down screw & blade.

Step 2: Loosen the two set screws for windage adjustment then add or delete the nylon inserts for elevation. Each insert equals 1/2" at 12 yds. or 1" at 25 yds.

Step 3: Lock it back down. When you are happy with your zero, apply a drop of Loctite to the hold down screw ONLY.

 

[gym]

I use night sites on all my front sites, I find that if I can see the front site I can hit just about any moving target. My guns are not target guns, they are all made fo one thing, bad people. Otherwise they look pretty nice. It's funny how methodical you are, "a good thing", I remember putting ghost ring sites on my glock 30, at work, I couldn't wait to get home, that was in 96, they are still on, never moved. Used a hammer and a punch, cut a 2x4 to hold the slide, it took about 30 minutes. They are dead on to this day. I asked a guy who advertises on most sites, "has a store in Melbourne" does a big web business, why he didn't have more glocks with Night sites. He said that the gun was priced perfect at around $500, out the door, and at $600+, they just don't sell. It's a 20% increase in the cost of the gun. I never looked at it that way, but he has a point, every hundred you go up the more competition you have.
I'm not one to talk though I put grips and sights, holsters and do dads, on just about every gun I ever owned.Just did the same to my EMP, changed a perfectly good Night sight to a different brand.

 

[hentown]

I understood how the sights are adjusted; however, drifting for windage and shimming for elevation just, in my opinion, doesn't qualify these sights as "adjustable". I'm sure there's a market for them, particularly among the tactical guys, and especially those who bust concrete blocks with their sights/slides!! Those really are some tough sights. Again, good luck with the marketing.

 

[ku4hx]

Stainless steel screw brightness problem? Naaaaaw, clean the head with a little Acetone and dab on a bit of Kyrlon flat black (or whatever) using a Q-Tip. You'll likely never think about it again and I'm way past worring about did it meet the perfection standard right out of the box.

As to shims, my 1,000 pound gun safe is leveled with shims, a couple of high end scopes are shimmed ... I have shims that have been in place for 30-40 years in static applications. Maybe not adjustable in the traditional sense, but shims do the job and the same can be said for drifting the whole setup. Personally I prefer sights that have few, if any, moving parts. Springs do weaken, threads do get stripped and so does any kind of screw head. Some heads just take a little greater application by King Kong to make it happen.

I like the looks of the sight.

 

[hentown]

Stainless steel screw brightness problem? Naaaaaw, clean the head with a little Acetone and dab on a bit of Kyrlon flat black (or whatever) using a Q-Tip. You'll likely never think about it again and I'm way past worring about did it meet the perfection standard right out of the box.

As to shims, my 1,000 pound gun safe is leveled with shims, a couple of high end scopes are shimmed ... I have shims that have been in place for 30-40 years in static applications. Maybe not adjustable in the traditional sense, but shims do the job and the same can be said for drifting the whole setup. Personally I prefer sights that have few, if any, moving parts. Springs do weaken, threads do get stripped and so does any kind of screw head. Some heads just take a little greater application by King Kong to make it happen.

I didn't intend to impugn the quality of shims...just expressing my opinion that these appear to be very durable, well-made, fixed sights with a provision for shimming. All Glock sights are adjustable by drifting. My point is, I suppose, "what's the point?" If you buy good steel fixed sights of the proper height for your desired point of aim, then why screw around with shims??

 

[D.R. Middlebrooks]

My point is, I suppose, "what's the point?"

The point is that ALL guns DO NOT shoot to the same point of aim. Obviously, you haven’t installed as many Glock sights as I have. So, I'll share this data with you:

I just went over my notes, and it seems I have installed 53 Pro-Sights on model G19’s alone. This is what I found:

29 needed NO elevation inserts to zero at 12 yards (stock barrel)

12 needed (1) elevation insert (stock barrel)

5 needed (2) elevation inserts (stock barrel)

4 needed (3) elevation inserts (stock barrel)

2 needed (4) elevation inserts (aftermarket drop-in barrel)

1 needed (5) elevation inserts (match barrel)

If you buy good steel fixed sights of the proper height for your desired point of aim, then why screw around with shims??

Why screw around with having to change front sights until you figure it out?

With Pro-Sights Point of Aim = Point of Impact, period. I've yet to have a Glock that would not sight in with this system.

 

[D.R. Middlebrooks]

Interchangeable Rear Blades

The rear blades automatically re-zero. Takes about a minute to change one out. Here's the line up:

V-Notch, Two Dot or Plain Match Blade

 

[Shawn Dodson]

I just might have to try out that V-notch sight!