The Religion of the .45, 9mm is the Devil!

[kaiserspal47]

Don't be afraid of the 9!LOL get a sig P229 in 9 then if you want a 45 you could go to P220. Same manual of arms. Same with Glock 19 9mm They make a 45 as well. Good weapons. You can also buy 1911s in 9 as well. We can get better ammo than is issued to the troops which performs better than 9mm ball does in the combat zone. Shot placement is critical in whatever caliber you use. cheap practice=more practice and better shooting.

 

[joshuarwright]

off topic kind of but if you are thinking of stopping power but your concern is price pick up one of the old Tokarev TTCs (TT-33). The gun itself is a steal at just about $220.

http://www.centerfiresystems.com/romaniantokarevtt-33pistolparttok-tt33.aspx

nothing beats that bulk ammo in tins of 1260 rounds for just $120.

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/1260-rds-762x25-mm-tokarev-ammo.aspx?a=170601

Once I am of age to buy a pistol I know that is the one for me, at least for range time. This as a carry gun may be just a bit heavy XD though here in Illinois sadly that is not an option anyway.

 

[ArmedBear]

Hmmm... I wonder if a TT-33 would fit in a 1911 holster. It looks like it might.

 

[joshuarwright]

Our russian friends did admire Browning's contribution enough to basically steal the whole gun design haha though a 1903 holster would probably be perfect, I'm sure a 1911 would do the job just fine.

 

[meef]

Whoa!

Shades of deja vu!

I could swear I've seen this thread somewhere before.......

 

[Dr.Mall Ninja]

What would your father think dont do it

 

[lions]

But dad, all the cool kids are doing it!

You'll be glad you did.

 

[cornman]

If the .45 was used as the NATO round today there would be countless stories of how it had failed. It is just the nature of people to report and spread the news of failures. We are talking about a bullet here, nothing more. Give me a .22 that I am confident with and I could care less if the bad guy has a .44 Mag. It is just childish to have strong oppinions on something so meaningless. BTW I hope you know that Ford is better than a Chevy!

 

[MikePGS]

You say you remember the Miami Shootout? Then surely you recall that the round that finished it was the super potent... .38 special Arguing pistol calibers (above a certain range) is really just a matter of what each individual "thinks" is right. For the most part they will all do their job if the shooter does theirs.

EDIT:
And don't forget that the round that the FBI chose after the Miami Shootout wasn't the .45. It was the 10mm.

 

[joshuarwright]

Cornman makes a point... Ford is better.

but in all seriousness he did make the point of placement previously made, You can take down a person with well aimed .22 just as easily as someone could take you down with a knife if you missed with your big ol' .45

what matters is that you're armed so for price consideration I would say you have to go with the 9mm... Or 7.62x25 haha

 

[18DAI]

Shot placement trumps all. TJ

 

[Mikhail Weiss]

But now I want a pistol to do a lot of shooting/practice, and be the occasional carry piece... I am on a budget, so the lower priced ammo of the 9mm is looking mighty tempting... But, I cant pull the trigger. Cant bring myself to get a 9mm.

Okay. Possible solution: Buy a gun in .40 caliber, get an aftermarket 9mm barrel, some 9mm magazines, shoot the cheaper 9mm stuff for range practice most of the time, then switch to the .40 caliber barrel and magazines for carry. (This is cheaper than buying two guns. Lone Wolf conversion barrels, for instance, run in the ballpark of $99 to $115.)

Another possible solution: read this link http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1165386 and go buy a 9mm.

I wonder, has anyone else had this irrational (maybe) phobia of the 9mm?

Yes. But after looking at lots of reports, studies, data, autopsy photos, game animals, I reached my own conclusion.

 

[camsdaddy]

Lets see would you rather have a capable pistol that you cant afford to practice or would you rather have a capable pistol you can afford to practice and become proficent with. With the advancement in 9mm hp ammo I think you will be just fine. Also you can have faster follow up shots and probably more on tap (not saying spray and pray its just a fact you have more bullets). Our military is restricted to FMJ bullets due to our deal with the devil. As a civilian you are able take advantage of better equipment. I figure if Blackwater can use a 9mm Glock to protect after Katrina and our military uses it, my local PD has changed to it as well as a friend who has many high end pistols and could carry anything he carries a Glock 19 while his 45 HK's and 1911's sit at home. I like 45's but there is nothing wrong with 9mm.
Also you say that you have your LCP on you as you type. Does that mean your 45 is put away and you feel safe with a 380 but unsure of a 9mm in a service size pistol?

 

[ArmedBear]

Cornman makes a point... Ford is better.

Well, Ford is profiting from sales to consumers making free purchase decisions, whereas GM required government money to keep going.

Same with .45 ACP vs. 9mm.

And cornman, what makes you think the .45ACP isn't in use today?

WRT stories of failure, it's true, those are not indicative of much. However, ballistics are real. They're not make-believe.

I don't think the 9mm is "the devil", or that it doesn't work at all. I do, however, think an equivalent bullet in .45 hits harder and stops attacks more often, statistically, than a 9mm. Numbers don't lie. The 9mm does fit in a much smaller gun, and/or allows greater capacity. Those are good things. You pays your money, and you takes your chances.

 

[Slamfire]

The legendary stopping power of the 45 is Orthodoxy. Blasphemers beware: if you poke a fork in a sacred cow, expect to be gored

I have always believed that bigger is better. However when you throw into the equation expanding bullets, the advantage is not so clear cut.

If I was only restricted to FMJ, I would want the better bigger bullet.

I recall reading “Tales from the Morgue” on the S&W forum. The Atlanta County coroner's gave his opinions based on what he saw on the slab. One point that I recall was that lighter bullets were more often deflected by ribs, bones, than bigger heavier bullets. Of course everyone on the table was dead, but it did give you the idea that if your aim is correct, the bigger bullet will plow its way to the target.

He was positive about the effectiveness of the 357.

I would prefer a 40 caliber to a 9mm, but I would not feel helpless with a 9mm.

Heck I feel safe with an Airweight J frame in 38 Special.

Our military is restricted to FMJ bullets due to our deal with the devil. As a civilian you are able take advantage of better equipment.

Insurgents and guerrillas apparently don’t count. A bud of mine has been to deployed to CONUS Military Bases to rebuild Army weapons. He informed me that US troops in Iraq were being issued +P (maybe +P+) Federal Hydroshocks. These were used in M92 pistols to improve the stopping characteristics of the round. Apparently the unit’s pistols were all beat up, he thinks it was due to the higher pressure round.

 

[ArmedBear]

I have always believed that bigger is better. However when you throw into the equation expanding bullets, the advantage is not so clear cut.

A 230 grain expanding bullet will still work better than a 115 grain expanding bullet. The advantage is clear-cut. The NEED for the advantage may not be.

Like I said, I don't think 9mm is useless, just that .45 hits harder while still being comfortable to shoot, at least for me.

Heck I feel safe with an Airweight J frame in 38 Special.

Me, too.

 

[Lonestar49]

Something is better than nothing..

...

Fear not, as the only fear is your ability to put lead "on target.."

Having all 3 calibers mentioned, 45, 40, and 9mm, each has a "purpose" for which it is intended to serve.

Like others have mentioned, I agree with bigger is better (width and weight of JHP's) and in 45 JHP, 230gr is my choice. In 40cal JHP 180gr is my choice and in 9mm, depending on which gun: 3" EMP, 124gr JHP is my choice and in, and with, my Sig P229/9mm, 147gr JHP is choice..

Knowing "each weapon" along with what (ammo) size/weight/velocity, JHP's, that each "works" best for you, the shooter, with what particular weapon, of choice, for the day, or occasion, is all one needs to demonstrate (thru practice).

The bottom line will always be "in the shooters hand/aim".. and SA


Ls

 

[camsdaddy]

I think our +P+ should be standard issue. I find it silly (sad) we send our men in women into battle yet restrict them to substandard equipment. Give them hollowpoint expanding ammo or whatverWe need to untie our hands and fight a war take the gloves off per say. I mean Geneva or who or whatever should tell us about fighting fair. Let them do what they need to do with whatever it takes. Sorry off topic

 

[ArmedBear]

camsdaddy, I'm with you. It seems ironic that it's okay to blow the living crap out of the enemy with shoulder-fired guided anti-tank missiles, smash their faces in with rifle butts after jamming bayonets into them, and spray them with machine-gun fire, but it's not okay for our troops to have the most effective handguns for last-ditch defense -- which is, BTW, the situation where the enemy could actually surrender if they wanted to.

 

[Boats]

I must be an agnostic. I rely upon 147 grain 9mm JHPs at home for the nightstand pistol and 230 grain .45ACP on the street and I am equally comfortable with either.

Home: 20+1 147 grain Gold Dot JHPs.



Away: 8+1 230 grain Golden Saber JHPs.

For me, it's about math. On the street, multiple assailants who stick around for a gun fight are pretty rare, so double tapping one or two crooks should send the rest running for their lives. Plus the spare mags are easier to conceal than are double stacks.

At home, an invasion robbery is dynamic and means a more determined criminal set is at work to discount or ignore the possibility of getting killed breaking into an inhabited dwelling.

With the 1911, four double taps means I am down to my last round on the way to the shotgun. With the Beretta, four double taps means the barrel is just warming up. Since I don't carry a spare mag in my jammies, the capacity bonus trumps the theoretical fall-off in terminal performance.

I must admit I have toyed with getting a FNH FNP-45 USG so as to have 15+1 of .45ACP on tap, but the weapon is enormous compared even to the service sized Beretta PX-4, and the grip a little too blocky for me.

 

[MICHAEL T]

One .45 in a limb or center of mass and it's over.

Another spreader of that old myth I have carried a 45 nearly 40 yrs and like the 9mm 380 or little 22 It shot placement . Shoot till threat is over. It may take several .
230 ball or HP its still has to be put in the right place not just a hit and its over

 

[DeepSouth]

I once shot a wild hog 150 yards away with a 45 and when it exited him it went through a medium sized red oak tree which made it ricochet slightly to the left at which point it hit a Elk in the tail and killed him grave yard dead.

I like to catch 9mm rounds with my baseball mitt just to impress people.


Seriously, Your Father is a wise man, but a 9mm is fine....................for plinking.

I personally don't/wouldn't use one for defense, but I wouldn't use a 380 either.

 

[Strahley]

The ONLY time I would feel undergunned with a 9mm instead of a .45 is if I were FORCED to use FMJ only. Modern JHP 9mm will get the job done, so long as you get your job done

That FBI shootout, imo, is a pretty null argument. If you are outgunned because you brought a pistol to a long gun fight, you don't respond by trying to make a stronger pistol. You respond with long guns of your own

As for .45 ACP being some magic one shot wonder, I don't buy that either. In fact, seeing how much humans have been known to withstand, I wouldn't trust ANYTHING to provide a magic one shot stop. Always stay on target until the threat is neutralized

People put way too much thought into pistol caliber selection. In the grand scheme of things, it just doesn't really matter

 

[RP88]

All I can say is: if you feel undergunned with a high-cap 9mm, then you must have picked a fight with more than one gunman or a guy with a rifle or shotgun.

Short of anything with .357 ballistics, you aren't gonna find that mythical manstopper that people think .45ACP is.

 

[verdun59]

Geez, I think I saw the answer in the second paragraph. Get a CZ PCR (or a 75B) stoke it with 9mm ammo and live happily thereafter.