model of 1905
member
Keep your 9x19 and buy the 45. I'm not selling anything that has self defense capability.
Sell My 9mm and Go All Out with .45. What do People Think?
- Thread starter 4Freedom
- Start date
- Status
christcorp
Member
There's a big difference between law enforcement/military and the civilian public when it comes to guns. Even though the military and LE has become a lot more technologically advanced, field fighting with handguns and rifles is still set up usually against multiple attackers, it's very offensive in nature, and killing the opponent is not actually the number 1 priority. Matter of fact, injuring the opponent is also very beneficial. An injured person takes another person out of the battle to assist them, where a dead person just gets a quick look at.
But a civilian in a traditional self/home defense is not going up against 5-10 bad guys. You're not running into heavy engagement. You're not going to be in a shoot-out. This is not a "Die Hard" movie. Choose the gun you like to shoot, feels good, is comfortable on recoil, quality, reliability, etc... DON'T choose the caliber and definitely don't choose based on the number of rounds the magazine carries. If you learn how to shoot, the traditional 6 round revolver or 7-8 round semi-auto will work just fine for what your objective is: "The stop a threat on you". And in the warmer months when people aren't wearing thick or layered clothing, and concealing is a little more difficult, I feel totally safe and protected carrying a 32 auto. In the colder months, where I'm wearing coats, and bad guys are wearing more layers of clothing as well as coats, I carry a SigSauer P220 45acp. Both will do what I need them to do. Reduce the threat.
So, while I don't have any need for a 9mm, 40sw, 10mm, or any other in between round, a person should pick what they want for self defense based on the gun itself and how it fits you. Caliber is 2nd choice and magazine capacity is LAST choice. If you don't shoot often to keep up practice, then for defensive purposes, you should carry a revolver. I'm not a fan of using tiny guns for large calibers. If you want a 45acp, shoot it in a Sig P220 or a 1911A1. If you want a 9mm, you can go smaller. If you want a small carry, then get a 380 or 32auto. Again, your needs are not the same as the military or law enforcement. You aren't shooting gangs of people, and if there is a societal break down, you should be avoiding populated areas. In other words, don't pull a Rodney King and be on the streets during riots. Just pick the gun you like shooting the best. They will ALL do what you need them to for self defense. Again, this isn't a Die Hard movie.
But a civilian in a traditional self/home defense is not going up against 5-10 bad guys. You're not running into heavy engagement. You're not going to be in a shoot-out. This is not a "Die Hard" movie. Choose the gun you like to shoot, feels good, is comfortable on recoil, quality, reliability, etc... DON'T choose the caliber and definitely don't choose based on the number of rounds the magazine carries. If you learn how to shoot, the traditional 6 round revolver or 7-8 round semi-auto will work just fine for what your objective is: "The stop a threat on you". And in the warmer months when people aren't wearing thick or layered clothing, and concealing is a little more difficult, I feel totally safe and protected carrying a 32 auto. In the colder months, where I'm wearing coats, and bad guys are wearing more layers of clothing as well as coats, I carry a SigSauer P220 45acp. Both will do what I need them to do. Reduce the threat.
So, while I don't have any need for a 9mm, 40sw, 10mm, or any other in between round, a person should pick what they want for self defense based on the gun itself and how it fits you. Caliber is 2nd choice and magazine capacity is LAST choice. If you don't shoot often to keep up practice, then for defensive purposes, you should carry a revolver. I'm not a fan of using tiny guns for large calibers. If you want a 45acp, shoot it in a Sig P220 or a 1911A1. If you want a 9mm, you can go smaller. If you want a small carry, then get a 380 or 32auto. Again, your needs are not the same as the military or law enforcement. You aren't shooting gangs of people, and if there is a societal break down, you should be avoiding populated areas. In other words, don't pull a Rodney King and be on the streets during riots. Just pick the gun you like shooting the best. They will ALL do what you need them to for self defense. Again, this isn't a Die Hard movie.
verdun59
Member
Wow I love the never ending .9mm vs .45acp debates, BUT I keep wondering why .380 ammo is the hardest to find these days.....maybe some people are not practicing what they preach....
christcorp
Member
380 and 9mm can be loaded using basically the same dies; changing the bullet seating and crimping. At the manufacturer level, I believe it would be even simpler in their mass production setup. I would not be surprised if manufacturers have reduced their 380 production to catch up on their 9mm requirements. Especially for military and law enforcement contracts. Just a thought/theory.
verdun59
Member
christcorp,
I think that is an interesting theory and may well be the fact; on the other hand I believe there are a whole gaggle of people who are carrying .380 around in their pockets ....
I think that is an interesting theory and may well be the fact; on the other hand I believe there are a whole gaggle of people who are carrying .380 around in their pockets ....
LightningJoe
Member
All the handgun calibers are poor stoppers when the BG is unaffected by fear and demoralization. There may be a difference between .45 Auto and 9mm, but if so it's undetectable. The greater capacity offered by 9mm vs .45 may or may not be of value, but it's a consideration.
ROBBY.1911
Member
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2007
- Messages
- 225
you can do what i did...
i went out and bought a glock 30. i slicked up the trigger, did the normal dress-up items and bought two G21 magazines. i got spacers for the G21 mags, and i now have a 13+1 round, mid-size pistol, whose accuracy is scary good and it will feed ANYTHING! it doesn't matter. i rounded up all my loose exotic personal defense rounds and it fed them all without a hiccup. i have settled on federal 185 gr match for carry, and wolf 230 gr for run and gun. why match for carry? i also use it for IDPA matches, for the moment. i used to shoot winchester white box 185 gr BEB with a recoil reducer in my G21. the G30 doesn't need a recoil reducer. it's really an amazing pistol, in all ways.
i went out and bought a glock 30. i slicked up the trigger, did the normal dress-up items and bought two G21 magazines. i got spacers for the G21 mags, and i now have a 13+1 round, mid-size pistol, whose accuracy is scary good and it will feed ANYTHING! it doesn't matter. i rounded up all my loose exotic personal defense rounds and it fed them all without a hiccup. i have settled on federal 185 gr match for carry, and wolf 230 gr for run and gun. why match for carry? i also use it for IDPA matches, for the moment. i used to shoot winchester white box 185 gr BEB with a recoil reducer in my G21. the G30 doesn't need a recoil reducer. it's really an amazing pistol, in all ways.
cyclopsshooter
Member
hankdatank1362
Member
Much like any other caliber war, there is more DISinformation here that it should be criminal.
Bullets bouncing off windshields, and 8 rounds of .40S&W to kill a deer where .45GAP did it in one?
It's true, it's true, I heard it from a guy I know who is a cop, and they have to shoot at bad guys all the time, despite the fact that the department averages less than one officer-involved shooting a year!
Bullets bouncing off windshields, and 8 rounds of .40S&W to kill a deer where .45GAP did it in one?
It's true, it's true, I heard it from a guy I know who is a cop, and they have to shoot at bad guys all the time, despite the fact that the department averages less than one officer-involved shooting a year!
inSight-NEO
Member
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2008
- Messages
- 842
Im somewhat dubious about this statement. If you have close to a 5" barrel, go with 230 grain; when closer to or less than a 4" barrel, try using 185 or 200/200+P. Out of my 4" XD, I like the Gold Dot LE 200+P JHP, but find that the Federal LE 185s "handle" better.
Now, back to the OPs dilemma...
I like the 9mm for its capacity potential (somewhat defeated however when dealing with many compact variants), relatively light recoil and the fact that 9mm rounds are relatively inexpensive compared to most. But, when comparing round to round, I prefer the .45 ACP as I truly believe it has superior "stopping" power vs. the 9mm; Notice I said "stopping" power...not "killing" power.
Now, its true that a hit with a 9mm weapon is better than a miss with a .45 ACP weapon. But, this saying applies to almost any situation really, regardless of caliber. However, assuming the necessary level of skill, a solid hit with a .45 ACP would instill a bit more confidence (for myself at least) vs. a solid hit when using a 9mm. This increases by a certain percentage when .45 ACP +P loads enter the equation.
Now, there is the .357 Magnum (full house 125 grain) round to consider as an equally effective man-stopper (not to mention the .44 Mag). But, for maximum stopping power out of a handgun, while still maintaining necessary control for rapid firing, I believe the .45 ACP to be among the best..if not the best. If all else fails, I then gravitate towards the 12 ga. shotgun. But, this weapon is not always the most "practical" choice, regardless of its effectiveness.
In terms of capacity (for HD), anything above 8-10 rounds is something I consider mute as I generally keep more than one loaded mag. Besides, if a close range, violent encounter cannot be assuaged within 10 rounds, I can most likely consider myself on the bad end of things at that point.
Also, as has been mentioned before, I think .45 ACP is simply much more fun to shoot vs. the 9mm.
With all of this in mind, to answer you "order of things" question, I would go .45 ACP, 9mm. .44 Mag. My order is only based on effectiveness combined with control, rather than focusing on a particular round or its capacity potential. I would have chosen the .44 Mag as my second choice but I feel that, while certainly powerful, the control just is not there (for me at least) when using full house loads, thus rendering its overall effectiveness (practically speaking) as less than ideal. Of course, I am merely speaking of "typical" HD ranges and thus, considering the most "effective" and "practical" weapon out of these 3 which would accommodate such a range variable.
Last edited:
Skip the .44
Several posters have mentioned the .44 magnum for stopping power. It's record does not reflect this power. A full power .44 magnum is much more likely to over penetrate and take all that energy with it.
The .357 magnum is much more effective for self defense. The 125 grain JHP bullet expands rapidly and uses all its energy inside the target. It rarely over penetrates the target. That is why it has a better stopping power history than the .44 magnum or .45ACP.
Jim
Several posters have mentioned the .44 magnum for stopping power. It's record does not reflect this power. A full power .44 magnum is much more likely to over penetrate and take all that energy with it.
The .357 magnum is much more effective for self defense. The 125 grain JHP bullet expands rapidly and uses all its energy inside the target. It rarely over penetrates the target. That is why it has a better stopping power history than the .44 magnum or .45ACP.
Jim
Howard B
Member
Proper placement is always of greater importance than the size of the projectile. High center mass with a 9 works better than a hit in the butt with a 45. Just my $.02.
ClickClickD'oh
Member
bellyup039 said:
What?
We kill wounded deer with a single shot from a Walther P22...
Do I want to know what you guys are doing to those deer?
Coltman 77
member
A Little Scientific Data on the Subject
Great discussion and opinions in this thread.
The .45acp vs. 9mm debate continues and it's always interesting.
Here is a link with some scientific research behind it that ya'll might enjoy:
http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm
Great discussion and opinions in this thread.
The .45acp vs. 9mm debate continues and it's always interesting.
Here is a link with some scientific research behind it that ya'll might enjoy:
http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm
Waibaddayu
Member
I got rid of a SIG P-228 about 3 years ago, and I'm still regretting it! I kept my Glock G-22, thinking that was all I needed. Well, as you all know, when the gun bug bites, it can get real bad! After each new purchase, I still remember that P-228, especially when I only paid $499 NIB! I've since gotten a SA XD-45 Tactical 2-tone, Glock G-19 (Austrian marked), Kimber Custom II, SIG Mosquito Sport, SIG P-6, and a Walther P-22. I am currently looking for a CPO SIG P-228 (earlier model with no rails), to fill that "void". I almost forgot my Kel-Tec P-11. I love to shoot all of my guns and I do shoot all of them regularly. I maintain a stock of at least 2000 rounds for each caliber, and yes. I am a "hoarder", but I USE my ammo, not just stock for SHTF. I vowed never to let another gun leave my collection, and I always advise friends and family to do the same. Keep what you got and just add to your collection. :banghead:
bukijin
Member
I wouldn't sell a good gun. On the other hand, I would sell guns that I regreted buying to buy a good gun instead. Calibre wars :banghead:
I did not read all the answers that you have gotten
so far, but this is my recomendation. Sorry, if someone has already said it. If you don't feel comfortable with the 9mm, don't carry it. Sell it if you like. You should have confidence in the gun that you carry. If only the 45 works for you, then that is what you should carry. What you must remember is that a poorly placed 45 will do no better than a 9mm. There are no magic bullets. On a personal note, up until recently I have not had good luck with factory 1911's. If you choose a 1911, wring it out thoroughly. A gun that doesn't feed reliably is no more than a hammer.
I just went back and read a few more of the responces as well as your original post. After having shot in several different types of competition over the last 20 years, I have made and seen just about all the mistakes you can imagine, and some you never even thought of. Without detailing all of those mistakes, one of the most common occured when people switched from one platform to another. If you ever have to use your weapon in self defense, you want it to be second nature. For this reason, I long ago decided that all of my SD guns must operate the same way. My point is that if you buy another 45 it should at least operate the same way as the one you already have. It would be even better if it were the same model. I will give you one quick example. At one point I was shooting only cowboy action and I was shooting a lot. One day I decided to go to the range and pratice with my Glocks. I drew my gun as I normally would, then realized my left hand thumb was trying to cock the hammer that wasn't there. Fortunately my brain caught up with my body before I pulled the trigger.
so far, but this is my recomendation. Sorry, if someone has already said it. If you don't feel comfortable with the 9mm, don't carry it. Sell it if you like. You should have confidence in the gun that you carry. If only the 45 works for you, then that is what you should carry. What you must remember is that a poorly placed 45 will do no better than a 9mm. There are no magic bullets. On a personal note, up until recently I have not had good luck with factory 1911's. If you choose a 1911, wring it out thoroughly. A gun that doesn't feed reliably is no more than a hammer.
I just went back and read a few more of the responces as well as your original post. After having shot in several different types of competition over the last 20 years, I have made and seen just about all the mistakes you can imagine, and some you never even thought of. Without detailing all of those mistakes, one of the most common occured when people switched from one platform to another. If you ever have to use your weapon in self defense, you want it to be second nature. For this reason, I long ago decided that all of my SD guns must operate the same way. My point is that if you buy another 45 it should at least operate the same way as the one you already have. It would be even better if it were the same model. I will give you one quick example. At one point I was shooting only cowboy action and I was shooting a lot. One day I decided to go to the range and pratice with my Glocks. I drew my gun as I normally would, then realized my left hand thumb was trying to cock the hammer that wasn't there. Fortunately my brain caught up with my body before I pulled the trigger.
Last edited:
I spoke with a Ranger currently on small leave from Iraq at my class reunion yesterday. He said that 45, 9mm - it didn't matter. you could lay down cover fire with either. However, he's shooting his rifle unless he's out of ammo. The only thing i could pin him down to was "you don't want to be out of bullets".
Sold my 9mm's a few years ago and have not looked back. I stuck with the 38/357 revolvers and could not be happier. Leave them load with 38 in the house and switch to the 357 when out in the concrete jungle. This has given me one platform to learn with, easier to stock up with the same caliber, etc. Even though variety is the spice of life I prefer one platform and stick to it.
- Status
Similar threads
