The "Rifleman's Rifle" is back -- Winchester M70 slated for production

[Richard.Howe]

Great news for the M70 lovers among us.

Looks like the one going to be built in the FN factory in South Carolina...the finest M70 I own is an FN. Should be interesting.

http://www.howardcommunications.com/winchester_firearms_news/Winchester Model 70.html

Quote:

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FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
DATE: October 2007

FOR MORE INFORMATION:
Contact: Scott Grange or Paul Thompson
(801) 876-2711 ext. 306 or ext. 229

The Model 70 Is Back!

Morgan, Utah – The Winchester Model 70 is one of the most respected bolt-action rifle designs in the world. Winchester Repeating Arms is excited to announce the return of the Model 70 for 2008. The All-American Model 70s will be built by American craftsmen in Columbia, South Carolina, at the same state-of-the-art factory (FN Manufacturing) as the rifles and machine guns used by America’s Armed Forces. They are made to the exact ISO 9001 standard of quality that the U.S. Government insists upon for military firearms.

For 2008 the new Model 70 has the all new M.O.A.™ Trigger System, improved fit and finish and enhanced accuracy to go along with its classic Pre-64 Controlled Round Feeding, Three-Position safety and solid, sure handling.

M.O.A. ™ Trigger System: The new Model 70 M.O.A. Trigger System is the most precise three-lever trigger system ever offered to sportsmen. Operating on a simple pivoting lever principle the trigger mechanism has been completely redesigned to exhibit zero take up, zero creep and zero overtravel. The pull weight ranges from 3 to 5 pounds and is factory-set at 3 ¾ pounds. Because of the enhanced ergonomics, wide smooth triggerpiece and 2:1 mechanical advantage created by the unique design geometry, it actually feels like half that weight.

Three-Position Safety: The improved three-position safety on the new Model 70 has proven effective and highly popular with hunters and shooters for decades. Convenient to operate with the thumb of the firing hand, the Model 70 safety lifts the firing pin away from the sear. When the safety selector is in the middle position, the action can still be operated, allowing unfired cartridges to be cycled with the safety on.

Hammer-Forged Barrel: Model 70 barrels are cold hammer-forged from a solid billet of steel for accuracy and long life. Massive rotary hammers shape the barrel steel around a mandrel to create the rifling. The barrel is threaded, target crowned and installed on the receiver. The chamber is then reamed and the bolt is headspaced. This results in 1 MOA accuracy for three-shot groups using properly managed barrel, quality match ammo and superior optics under ideal weather and range conditions.

Blade-Type Ejector: The Model 70’s blade-type ejector allows full control when ejecting a fired case. When pulling the bolt back slowly the empty case pops out gently; which is perfect for target shooters and varminters. Pulling the bolt back smartly allows the empty case to clear the port with greater force. The blade-type ejector helps to eliminate short-stroking malfunctions.|

The new Winchester Model 70 will be offered in a Super Grade, Featherweight™ Deluxe, Sporter Deluxe and Extreme Weather SS models for 2008. All will feature a thick black Pachmayr® Decelerator® pad that will help take the bite out of recoil.

The Super Grade will be offered in 30-06 Sprg. And 300 Win. Mag and will feature a fancy grade walnut stock with contrasting black fore-end tip and pistol grip cap and a sculpted shadowline cheekpiece. Suggested retail is $1,149.00.
The Featherweight Deluxe has an angled comb walnut stock with Schnabel fore-end and satin finish with elegant cut checkering. It will be offered in popular long and short action calibers, including WSM chambering. Suggested retail is $999.00 to $1,049.00.

The Sporter Deluxe features a satin finished walnut stock with cut checkering on trim fore-end and pistol grip, along with a sculpted cheekpiece. It will be available in popular long action and short action WSM calibers. Suggested retail is $999.00 to $1,049.00.

The Extreme Weather SS‘s premium Bell and Carlson composite stock features a trim, light feel with textured matte surface that gives a sure grip in any conditions. The Extreme Weather SS has a free floating, fluted stainless barrel to help minimize weight. It will be available in popular long action and short action WSM calibers. Suggested retail is $1,149.00 to $1,199.00.

Delivery on all models will begin in June of 2008.
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[dakotasin]

Suggested retail is $1,149.00.

Suggested retail is $999.00 to $1,049.00.

Suggested retail is $1,149.00 to $1,199.00.

good luck w/ that - that still puts realistic street price very close to $850 and up. for that kind of money, i'm building my own. and for the new, unproven winchester to come out and go directly head-to-head w/ the refined sako and super-accurate cooper...? hmmm... could be a short life for the m70.

good to see winchester back, though.

 

[BlkHawk73]

The Model 70 couldn't sustain it's manufacturing beofre or it would've stayed around. With the prices they're expecting this time..good luck! Too much competiton and high expectaions for a rifle in that price range now. many want either an inexpensive working rifle in the $400-$500 ange or they'll spend the new model 70 price and get a better made model.

Funny though..i see everyone jumping for joy becasue it's to be US made. However, it's still foreign owned kinda like foreign brand/US manufactured vehicles ppl dislike so much. Hypocrites?

 

[Outlaws]

good luck w/ that - that still puts realistic street price very close to $850 and up. for that kind of money, i'm building my own. and for the new, unproven winchester to come out and go directly head-to-head w/ the refined sako and super-accurate cooper...? hmmm... could be a short life for the m70.

American style center fire hunting rifles from Cooper start closer to $1500, and that MSRP is generally the selling price sans one or two shops. (Classic model).

But yes, FN/Browning/whoever is asking a lot of money compared to what other companies are offering.

 

[ArmedBear]

There's more competition in the marketplace than there was a while ago.

Kimber and Thompson/Center make American rifles that interest me more than a reintroduced Model 70 for a high price. The more I see of what Kimber can do in an under-5-lb. rifle with a 22" barrel, the less interested I am in a "featherweight" M70, and Howa can sell a damn nice full-sized hunting rifle for 500 bucks with a scope on it. This isn't the 1950s; the M70 is not exactly the only option out there.

And I've seen at least a couple of gorgeous rifles, with incredible wood and ridiculous accuracy that have been put together for those prices. You just have to be willing to figure out what you want piece by piece rather than just buying off the shelf.

The rifle market is a catch-22 sometimes. I wonder if people who lament the pre-64 Winchesters will really line up to pay relatively high-end prices for new ones -- they're still just production rifles. Time will tell.

 

[dakotasin]

outlaws - the scheels nearest me has a couple coopers in stock that can be had for ~1150 - 1200, which puts it in the same price ballpark as the supergrade winchester. that was all that i was saying. but, yes, a well-optioned cooper can easily run into dakota arms territory for price...

i have winchester classics, pre-64, and super shadows, but i'm not real excited about the latest rendition of winchester at those prices. we'll see how they do, and maybe i'm wrong because possibly the barrels will be top quality, or wood quality will be much higher than what has been... but, i still don't forsee myself jumping at the chance to buy a new winchester.

i think armed bear has this one nailed...

 

[USSR]

Remember, nobody pays MSRP. They will be competitively priced, and with the Winchester name they will sell.

Don

 

[aspade]

But yes, FN/Browning/whoever is asking a lot of money compared to what other companies are offering.

Are they?

A Remington 700 BDL lists $900 now. The used to be bargains like CZ, Savage, Tikka, Vanguard, Howa, etc. are listing $700.

And these are 2007 prices that will probably hike another 10 or 15% for 2008.

 

[Outlaws]

outlaws - the scheels nearest me has a couple coopers in stock that can be had for ~1150 - 1200

Yes, but $1150 is for Varminter model which only lists for $1300, and is a single shot with a bull barrel...completely different market, even though I don't doubt there will be a varmint model 70 which I would agree will be out classed if its sells for $800+/-. If they have the "Classic" one for that price (1150-1200), it is way below market value. The Model 52 in Classic lists for $1600, I wouldn't expect to see that for much under $1500 in a store. Remington and Winchesters at $700-800 are half that price, and not even close to the same price range.

Also Coopers bolt stop is utter crap for a deer rifle, and if their repeater has the same one as the single shots, I would not want it with for a deer hunt anyways. Cycling the action to hard in the heat of the moment could lead to a bolt that is out of the action while a deer is running away on you eliminating any chance for a follow up shot. Don't get me wrong, I love my Cooper, but the extra accuracy is only really beneficial in a varmint rig, not a medium to big game rifle. If they would improve that flimsy bolt stop I would have a different opinion.

 

[Richard.Howe]

The Model 70 couldn't sustain it's manufacturing beofre or it would've stayed around.

Do some research into the spiraling demands of the union at the (now closed) New Haven, Conecticut Winchester plant. That, and poor management, is what caused Winny to close down the line. They faced exactly the same problem the Big Three in Detroit now face: declining labor quality, increasing labor cost, and cheaper + higher quality competitor products.

Funny though..i see everyone jumping for joy becasue it's to be US made. However, it's still foreign owned kinda like foreign brand/US manufactured vehicles ppl dislike so much.

These days it seems like you have to choose between US-owned, foreign made (a-la Chevy made in Canada & Mexico) or foreign-owned, US-made (a-la Toyota Tundras made in San Antonio, TX). Pick your poison, it's here to stay.

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Having said that, I'm skittish of new the advertised price point too. Hopefully they'll be able to adapt to the marketplace and remain competitive.

But...bear in mind...this time, Fabrique Nationale is building the rifle. Not too many folks have actually held, much less shot a real FN M70 pattern, hence they're not going to be able to comment on the relative quality of this manufacturer compared to the Winchester of 3 years ago. Not that this will hinder the commentators...

Further, FNs retail business can be underpinned by the hundreds of millions of dollars business they have with the US and foreign governments. Finally, they don't have to deal with the union issues that finally put Winchester under.

As an owner of an FN PBR, let me tell you it's the best example of M70 workmanship I've seen short of the pre-64. That includes both my Kimber SuperAmerica and Montana. Just my opinion, but as owner of 11 Winchester M70s, it's an informed one.

Dang...FN needs to hire me. Hope they don't screw this up.

Rich

 

[Outlaws]

Further, FNs retail business can be underpinned by the hundreds of millions of dollars business they have with the US and foreign governments. Finally, they don't have to deal with the union issues that finally put Winchester under.

Unions are still a major player in many industries and many industries still make lots of profit while providing excellent service. Maybe Winchester went under because they refused to adapt to the modern market with new products, and instead chose to act almost like Ford did when they offered the Model T for years after it was outdated and surpassed in every possible way, but price...which might be a Union issue for Winchester to an extent, but that doesn't change the fact the product was stale.

 

[kentucky_smith]

Winchester didn't particularly "go under". They may or may not have been making money (probably were). FN and USRAC went their separate ways when a contract was up, FN still has rights to use Winchester name from Olin and has a better control of how the M70 will be produced.

I've always considered Winchester to be a notch above Remington, 2 above Ruger, Savage, and Howa in fit, finish and the wonderful 3 position safety. Probably always will.

Cooper is not a good hunting rifle, only a single shot, not great for carrying around. GOOD shooters though.

 

[kentucky_smith]

whoops, double tap

 

[USSR]

...as owner of 11 Winchester M70s, it's an informed one.

D@mn, Richard, and here I am with only 4.

Not too many folks have actually held, much less shot a real FN M70 pattern, hence they're not going to be able to comment on the relative quality of this manufacturer compared to the Winchester of 3 years ago.

FN does indeed build some fine rifles. Here's my tricked out FN SPR.

Don

 

[zinj]

Winchester didn't particularly "go under". They may or may not have been making money (probably were). FN and USRAC went their separate ways when a contract was up, FN still has rights to use Winchester name from Olin and has a better control of how the M70 will be produced.

FN owns USRAC. That's how they got the rights to the Winchester name in the first place.

 

[JHansenAK47]

I think the FN made rifles are going to be better. FN makes good quality products and I think that the new rifles will have better qc. I think it will ultimately help winchester in the long run.

 

[Richard.Howe]

FN does indeed build some fine rifles. Here's my tricked out FN SPR.

Sweet rifle USSR -- not every day you see a full tactical rig with the external claw extractor.

I imagine it's a shooter.

 

[ArmedBear]

The used to be bargains like CZ, Savage, Tikka, Vanguard, Howa, etc.

The thing is, years of blah guns with M70 stamped on them have robbed them of a lot of their cachet.

Few shooters under age 60 could give two ****s about the words "Model 70."

FN will have to prove itself against other guns in the price range, as if this were a new gun, but without the excitement of a new design to get attention. Objectively, how will the new gun compare to, say, the Kimber bolties?

Winchester survived off its old reputation for far too long. The value of the name "Winchester" is probably a lot lower than people think, and "Model 70" even more so.

If you ask me, they should just call it an FN.

 

[GunTech]

I was very happy with both fit and finish and performance of my PBR XP. The extra $$ yoiu are going to be paying for will be for polish and wood work, and as already mentioned, shouldn't be to far above other comparable guns. If you can live with 308 or 300 WSM, you can always buy a PBR XP for about $800.

 

[cracked butt]

Win m70s made in New Haven- never was interested in one.
Win M70s made by FN? Might be my next hunting rifle.
My 'next' hunting rifle was going to be a CZ, but that could change.

Few shooters under age 60 could give two ****s about the words "Model 70."

Me included, considering what I've seen of Win model 70s of the later day.

FN will have to prove itself against other guns in the price range, as if this were a new gun, but without the excitement of a new design to get attention. Objectively, how will the new gun compare to, say, the Kimber bolties?

I've always had a negative view of Kimber, though maybe unjustifiably so.

 

[ArmedBear]

I've always had a negative view of Kimber, though maybe unjustifiably so.

Hard to say. Ditto for Winchester, lately, though.

 

[ducktail]

Finally something to come out of a local manufacturer that I can use. I had heard there was something in the pipes at FN but no one could talk about it. I figured it was military and didn't think much more. Great news. The ISO 9000 will make a difference.

 

[SeoulMan]

Old vs. New

I'd like to share my 2 cents on this issue..
1) I own 3 pre-64 Mod 70's, and all are 1950/51 production. I agree with the previous post saying pre-mid 50's guns are the best of the "old" type. I think they are truly the Rifleman's rifle, and are made for serious shooting, hunting, and are from a time when isolated hunters might have to depend on their rifle for their life.
2) The posts about weight are valid. M70's are NOT lightweight, which is why they are so shootable (need some weight out there for stability), and are all steel, which soaks up recoil when doing a lot of shooting. My pre-64 guns have steel buttplates, by the way. Basically, if you want to tote a light little shooting stick around, the Rifleman's rifle is probably not for you...and good luck getting a stable hold on a long shot.
3) USRAC guns... I purchased a featherweight stainless about a year before production ended in 6.5x55 -- a really nice caliber -- and I was kind of horrified after shooting it. MIM parts all over, barrel was free floated, so if you didn't wait 60 secs between shots it grouped like a Modified Choke pattern, and the overall fit & finish wasn't there. The only thing I really liked about that rifle was the barrel... very easy to clean with nice recessed crown.
4) On the new FN-made M70, I really hope they introduce a rifle worthy of the M70's legacy. I'd like to have a Featherweight, but they have a lot to prove, I think... I'm originally from Missouri, so I have to be shown

 

[George Hill]

For my money, I'd rather buy a Kimber 8400 Classic. Same thing, but less money, less pretension. And they are available right now.

 

[wraco]

I have 10 pre-64 Model 70's. Not 60 years old yet, but I'm creeping up there. They span from pre-war to 1960. My favorites are the low comb stock of the early 50's. All have steel buttplates except the 375 H&H and the F/W has aluminum. They are just so nice to shoot, the trigger, wide butt, stock design; hell I don't even feel any kick. The 375 I enjoy shooting. The only one that I make damn sure my cheek is down tight is the 338. My favorite is the 300 H&H.

Some say they are heavy, but with the right sling I can carry one all day long. I did own some post 64 Model 70's and never liked them. The skinny stock design and narrow butt, lousy trigger made from cast steel, push feed. They were no doubt made on the cheap. Some of the last ones with CRF seemed to be not too bad.

I've shot and used other rifles; Remington, Ruger, even Sako; but I very much prefer the pre-64 Model 70. Because the pre-64 Model 70 has been touted as the end all in rifles, it seems that some folks go out of their way to bad mouth them and try to bring them down a peg or two. That's fine and all, but I'll just enjoy mine nevertheless. I do hope the new ones are successful as I can always use another "Good Rifle".

Regards:
Rod