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The RUGER OLD ARMY Club

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by ClemBert, Aug 11, 2010.

  1. Onty

    Onty Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2003
    Messages:
    187
    Hi Clembert,

    I would like also to join ˝officially˝ Ruger Old Army club. They are not common on the market over here as they use to be several years ago. It took me almost year and half to locate a nice ones. Actually, I was looking for one, but deal was to take both or nothing, so I jumped opportunity and purchased them. One is just ˝test fired˝ and it's for sale. Another is unfired, NIB, and it's a keeper, here is the picture:

    old_army-20100723-221530.jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2012
  2. ClemBert

    ClemBert Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2009
    Messages:
    1,168
    Location:
    Orlando
    ROA Club Members:

    01. ClemBert 02. Eights 03. kanook 04. kwhi43@kc.rr.com 05. mykeal
    06. adaptandovercome 07. 461 08. junkman_01 09. lonewolf5347 10. rcflint
    11. MCgunner 12.madcratebuilder 13. AbitNutz 14. eastbank 15. robert garner
    16. philuk44 17. HUnter58 18. arcticap 19. BullRunBear 20. theotherwaldo
    21. SC Slowhand 22. Prairie Dawg 23. wittzo 24. Tallbald 25. Smokin_Gun
    26. OB One 27. jungle 28. plumbernater 29. daveinvegas 30. JanZ
    31. George Mabry 32. Benmathes 33. Loosenock 34. higene 35. Rock Island
    36. Erich 37. robhof 38. J-Bar 39. Nomad, 2nd 40. TAURUSBOB
    41. martindl99 42. Vermonter 43. wasatch 44. fogg64 45. BConklin
    46. Howdy Doody 47. bushrod2 48. rdstrain49 49. FirinFlatTop 50. rem1858
    51. straight-shooter 52. edorfox 53. KevininPa 54. Ringo1234 55. pohill
    56. The Don 57. jeepcoma 58. Dave Markowitz 59. Chazz 60. andrewstorm
    61. Steel Wheels 62. Legionnaire 63. NineMilePete 64. 94RUGER 65. Acorn Mush
    66. R.Ganister 67. Boom-stick 68. Buddy 69. Ghost Dog 70. BML
    71. Cult of 1858 72. Jaymo 73. bigbore442001 74. Engineer Bill 75. azyogi
    76. Dr. Leaky 77. Clermont 78. Indy4570 79. ozarkguy 80. Plastikosmd
    81. mrdo1 82. bax504 83. Constrictor 84. BC Mosaic 85. clepidus
    86. did 87. gunboat57 88. Malachi Leviticus Blue 89. Blue Hill 90. Power Keg
    91. SUMIKITO 92. ChasMack 93. Larry Flett 94. RugerShawn 95. tdperry
    96. Rettech 97. renoman 98. tk1971 99. Curator 100. Dan Carey
    101. Old No7 102. Muddydogs 103. Oldnamvet 104. 6.5x55swedish 105. crazysccrmd
    106. Jim, West PA 107. rodwha 108. Varmiter 109. Indian Outlaw 110. Patocazador
    111. Fingers McGee 112. h0use 113. Huntingsaddles 114. GregP42 115. esims
    116. Doak 117. BubbaGoose 118. FreddyKruger 119. Calvados 120. ruger357
    121. wap41 122. DurangoKid 123. Yamavira 124. Onty

    Welcome DurangoKid, Yamavira and Onty! :):):) :cool::cool::cool:
     
  3. Patocazador

    Patocazador Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2012
    Messages:
    2,781
    Location:
    Central Florida
    Update on Doak's Capsule Set:

    I received my Christmas present a week early. Yesterday I got the capsule set to replace the nipples in the Ruger Old Army.

    I disassembled the package and sorted everything out.

    ROAcomponentsweb.gif

    I read the instruction pages and found a suitable case for them.

    ROAkitweb.gif

    I assembled the capsules, primed them and inserted into the cylinder.

    ROAcapsulesreplacingnipples-web.gif

    Then I put the cylinder in the gun.

    ROAcapsulesinstalled-web.gif

    Today I attempted to shoot a test shot or two with round balls and BlackHorn 209 powder. This wonderful black powder substitute has one drawback, it is difficult to ignite - hence the name with 209 at the end.

    The 1st attempt was with a Remington 5 1/2 small pistol primer and resulted in a fizzzz shot. The ball exited the barrel but with little recoil and a soft report. There was still unburned powder in the cylinder chamber.

    The second shot used a thicker card with the same load, 21 gr. of Blackhorn by weight and a Remington 7 1/2 small rifle primer. BOOM! Success - Man, was I happy!

    I had to interrupt the process at that time to disassemble and examine the components. I'll report back when I have more conclusive results. I want to try the small pistol primers after firing the current ones without a charge to eliminate the possibility of oil contamination. Then I'll load 3 balls with pistol primers and 3 with small rifle primers and compare results.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2012
  4. BADUNAME30

    BADUNAME30 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2009
    Messages:
    1,876
    Location:
    Neshannock, Pa.
    Great idea on the storage case Bob. I have a similar one for a small digital camera that i'll use.
    I haven't tried my capsules yet with rb & bp. Still havin way to much fun shootin indoors with rubber boolits. :D
     
  5. AbitNutz

    AbitNutz Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    946
    Oh man...I wish Santa would have brought mine.
     
  6. Doak

    Doak Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2012
    Messages:
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    Location:
    Northern California
    Santa

    Santa's elves are all on strike. He's gotta do ever'thang by 'imself.
    Say's here you' been a good boy...so Santa's tryin' t' catch up!
     
  7. bothenook

    bothenook Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2012
    Messages:
    71
    Location:
    northern democratic people's republic of *********
    hello the camp....
    being a newbie, i made the classic newbie mistake of tearing down my new to me ROA, cleaning and lubing, reassembling, and then loading, wait for it, wait for it, without locking down the pin latch. d'oh! bottom line, i now have a two piece base pin.
    Went out looking for replacement base pins, and found here and other places mentioning Belt Mountain replacements as being the bomb.
    Midway has discontinued carrying them
    Most other websites that have active content regarding these are cached versions at least a year or more old
    The website is still up, and I'm wondering if they are still in business, or if this is now an orphan site? No answer on the telephone, but being it's only a day away from the end of the world, they may be out getting their last few hours in cavorting and raising havoc before the end hits.
    Anyone know if they are still up and in business? If not, is there another manufacturer/supplier that can provide similar?
    I know the pieces from ruger are made of pure unobtanium, as noted on many different forums, so a decent aftermarket supplier would be much appreciated.
    I'll post pics when it gets put back together, one way or another. so until then, i'm requesting associate status rather than full status as a member of the club.
    if you'll have someone as ham handed as i apparently am, that is.
     
  8. BADUNAME30

    BADUNAME30 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2009
    Messages:
    1,876
    Location:
    Neshannock, Pa.
    Welcome to the forum bothenook.
    And, welcome to the ROA bent base pin club.
    Most of us have been there done that. Tho, i must say, yer first i've seen to have actualy broken one.
    When i bent mine i was able to whoop it back into submission on an anvil with a hank o' brass rod.
     
  9. SUMIKITO

    SUMIKITO Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2012
    Messages:
    196
    Location:
    Los Angeles County CA
    Waiting for the shaking or whatever it is....

    It is the 21st of December right now as I write this hunkered down 25 feet below ground in my steel reinforced hard concrete bunker, errr, shelter, waiting for the shaking to begin. Pretty quite down here. Got all my supplies and stuff wall to wall including lots of holy black, balls,caps,whiskey and tobacco to last me a long while. Got all my ROAs all lubed and wrapped in tar paper awaiting their descent when all the smoke clears above ground.Have not gotten to pop out my periscope yet, too early, and I dont want to alarm my neighbors or their dogs. Gotta stay low, you know. Will have to go look for lunch and dinner when out there, no telling whats to find.Will try to revive the ROA club again and I am sure there will be some fellows I'll meet with an ROA or two while roaming the countryside. The Ruger Old Army will live on fellows! Yes the Ruger Old Army forever!!!
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2012
  10. FreddyKruger

    FreddyKruger Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2011
    Messages:
    214
    Location:
    Australia
    A mate at the range broke his. right where the pin sits to hold it place when you assemble it all back together. he ended up just getting it welded back together.
     
  11. Patocazador

    Patocazador Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2012
    Messages:
    2,781
    Location:
    Central Florida
    Quick Update on Doak's Capsule Test

    My 20 yr. old Pact scale decided to take itself out of production yesterday and I don't remember where I stored my balance-beam scale so I had to approximate 30 gr. of BlackHorn 209 by volume with some Lee powder dippers. (I have a degree in Chemistry and it chaps me to do things that I can't replicate each time.)
    I loaded all 6 chambers with ~30 gr.(by volume) of BH209, a 1/16" card and cast round balls. I primed 3 with Remington 5 1/2 (small pistol magnum) primers and 3 chambers with Remington 7 1/2 (small rifle bench rest) primers. I was concerned that I wasn't able to compress the charge enough because of the small volume of powder and the short round ball but all my worries were for naught. All 6 rounds fired as I hoped for and 5 of the 6 shots were in a 3" group with one flyer that felt like an undercharged load when fired. Even with the 6th shot going low, it still made a 6" group at 15 yards fired offhand.

    I believe that the first fizzz load that I shot as a test was due to oil contaminating the primer. I suggest that anyone who is fortunate enough to receive these capsules assemble them with an anti-seize lubricant (available at auto parts stores) rather than using oil. This should cut down on contamination of primers.

    One thing that I discovered is that it is somewhat difficult to start the threads of the firing-pin-containing (male) "plug" into the cup that holds the primer. Perhaps flaring, chamfering, rounding the first thread on both pieces could be done without weakening the strength of the capsule enough to matter. This operation would save lots of time in the reloading process.


    ADDENDUM: I had a poster on the THR reloading forum send this link. It completely answers my question of which primer to use to ignite BH 209.
    http://www.6mmbr.com/PrimerPix.html

    When I get my scale repaired/replaced, I'll work up some hunting loads for the ROA using cast flat-nose 255 gr. bullets and BlackHorn 209.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2012
  12. Doak

    Doak Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2012
    Messages:
    263
    Location:
    Northern California
    Outstanding! Glad to hear the dern things work w/BH209.
    Great foto record of primer flashes. Very helpful.
    Yeah, I know. That's one of the problems w/threads.
    I'll see if I can get the design engineer to do something about this problem. Sometimes he has trouble communicating w/the machinist.:-D
    Thanks for the excellent post Patocazador!
     
  13. Patocazador

    Patocazador Member

    Joined:
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    2,781
    Location:
    Central Florida
    Doak, the same problem applies to the bolt ends that wing nuts attach to on my climbing stands. Just a little bit of unthreaded shaft to allow the two parts to line up so starting the initial thread is all that's needed.
    Because of the space restriction on the length dimensions of the capsule, it may be pushing the limit on strength of the assembled capsule to contain the primer explosion. However, when I think of the relatively open end of a cartridge case containing a primer that is only limited by the back plate of the gun's frame with a pronounced gap between the two, I get the impression that it may not be that important.
     
  14. Doak

    Doak Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2012
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    263
    Location:
    Northern California
    After the primer pops, the pressure from the main charge goes back up the flash hole and tries to blow the firing pin plug out the back. One of the old case-hardened bodies cracked, from a driver slot corner, halfway down one side, but the plug didn't blow out. So the capsule bodies wanna balloon out too. And there's nothin' backin' the capsule up. Integrity is entirely dependent on all the threads, in the cylinder and the capsule.
    The new material, S7, seems to have put an end to these problems.

    I just now experimented w/a 90' countersink, fed ~ .010'' into the top opening of a capsule body, before the body gets milled to finished length. Doesn't remove enuff material for concern. It does generate burrs and makes chasing the threads necessary. The threads are cut while the capsule body is still too long, so that when the body is trimmed to length, the threads there are cleaner and tighter than where the tap originally started. I don't like messin' w/the threads after they're "done". Just one more thing to worry about.

    I question the value of this particular alteration. It mite make using the priming tool a bit easier, can't say yet. Doesn't mean it's not a good idea. Also, don't know what the unintended consequences might be.

    I don't experience any difficulty screwing the firing pin plugs into the unaltered capsules. Always use the driver, never my fingers. But I been doin' it a long time. The plug was a bit easier for me to start into the altered capsule, but not enuff for me to wanna do it to my own set.

    So, I can do the alteration, so long as everyone knows it hasn't been tested yet. I don't think there will be a problem w/it. The solution to this would be to make an altered set and send it out to one of you's guys to hammer it. But, then, everyone else will have to wait even longer for their stuff.

    How 'bout I keep makin' 'em the same ol' way unless each of you's tells me otherwise?
    Or somebody come up w/another idea?

    Kindest Regards,
    Doak
     
  15. Patocazador

    Patocazador Member

    Joined:
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    2,781
    Location:
    Central Florida
    Convenience isn't everything. Strength and safety are definitely more important. However, the hammer does offer some backing to the plug as it remains in place after it has impacted the firing pin.

    I'm not trying to be critical; I'm attempting to approach this as I would if someone gave me a prototype and said, "Check it out and give me feedback." Some things would be observations and some things would be thinking out loud about possible modifications that might be made. Not being a machinist nor an engineer, I'm not in a position to know whether possible modifications would be within the limits of proper functioning and safety. All of my statements should be treated as qualitative and not quantitative.
     
  16. Doak

    Doak Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2012
    Messages:
    263
    Location:
    Northern California
    I think you're right. The hammer does provide some back-up. And should the plug rupture, and push the hammer back, the plug would be stopped by the recoil shield around the striker window.

    Don't think that's gonna happen, unless someone loads smokeless.

    I do relieve the edge of the top thin thread at the capsule opening. Do it by hand w/a Ferrier 10 strate chisel dental instrument. I can carve away more, and that helps, and doesn't cause any retrograde production problems. That may be the path, for the time being, until we get some time to make some altered capsules for testing.

    Understand your position Patocazador. Greatly appreciate your feedback! You're work w/BH209 is pure R&D. And I'm quite sure your engineering skills are well developed.

    You show up around here 'n' I'll put ya to work!:-D
     
  17. Jaymo

    Jaymo Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2010
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    3,530
    If I lived in Northern CA, I'd let you put me to work in the R&D lab/prototyping shop.
    Alas, I live on the opposite coast.
    With deer season closing soon, I plan on testing mine out a lot when the set arrives.

    I'm not quite so concerned about convenience of loading, since cap/ball revolvers aren't very convenient to load, anyway.
    I'm not discounting anyone else's observations, just stating my own rationale.
    If I find anything that may be helped by design modifications (doubt it), I'll let you know by PM, so we can discuss it without taking up forum space for something that may or may not be useful.
    Bear in mind, I always have lots of good ideas. Not necessarily good ideas, but ideas nonetheless.

    Also bear in mind, that your primer capsule set looks to be everything I could possibly want for my ROA (with the exception of a forged 4140/4340 cylinder), so I may have a hard time saying anything critical about it. I don't believe in looking a gift horse in the mouth.

    That said, I will do everything I can to give you a helpful, honest review. I won't bash it or you, but I will give you honest opinions, via PM.

    BTW, I'd like to send you one of my Howdah pistol nipples or the measurements of one, to see if you could make a primer capsule for it.
    They use a 1/4"-28 thread, just like Thompson/Center nipples.
    Primer capsules with rifle primers would allow me to use 777, Pyrodex, and BH209 in my Howdah Pistol (is there a happy dance smiley?).
    That would give me centerfire ignition reliability with muzzle loading fun.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2012
  18. SUMIKITO

    SUMIKITO Member

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Los Angeles County CA
    A very Merry Christmas to all! You're all a great bunch! All the very best to you too up there, Bill Ruger, you have brought happiness and joy to all of us down here in the form of the very venerable Old Army. A joy to have forever!
     
  19. woodnbow

    woodnbow Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
    Messages:
    116
    bothenook, there's a base pin on gunbroker right now... good luck!
     
  20. 4speed

    4speed Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2012
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    Location:
    Bartow County Georgia
    Old Army Club

    Just got mine today NIB. Can I join too?

    RugerOA2_zps79b5e6d3.jpg
     
  21. Surculus

    Surculus Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2010
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    Location:
    Lo-cal So.Cal. where the money is plastic & the pe
    I think you already did!

    Nice shot, btw. Is it just me, or does this shot illustrate just how small the XR3RED grip really is? Anyone replace the original grip frame on their OA w/ something they like better? Love the old beasts otherwise, but they do seem a little ungainly to me w/ those little grips...
     
  22. arcticap

    arcticap Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2005
    Messages:
    6,185
    Location:
    Central Connecticut
    The brass grip frames having a square trigger guard
    that were available from 1973 - 1975 appear be larger
    in size but are expensive and hard to find.
    The Pachmayr Presentation grips are quite comfortable,
    more supportive and feel larger than the standard wood
    grips because they surround the entire grip frame.

    [​IMG]
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Dec 31, 2012
  23. Jaymo

    Jaymo Member

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    Aug 21, 2010
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    3,530
    Thicker aftermarket grips make a huge difference.
     
  24. Patocazador

    Patocazador Member

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    Location:
    Central Florida
    I have small hands and shoot heavy loads in Blackhawks. I personally prefer the stock grips on Ruger SA revolvers since they allow the gun to roll upward upon firing thus disseminating some of the recoil. This is what a single-action revolver is designed to do. The rubber oversize grips actually defeat this purpose and deliver more recoil to your hand similar to a DA revolver.
     
  25. Jaymo

    Jaymo Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2010
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    I don't like how thin the factory grips are, so I replaced mine with a set from CLC Custom Grips.
    I put a pair of Private Schulz's grips on my NMBH .44 Special.
    I chose them because they allow the gun to roll up under recoil.
    I never did warm up to rubber grips on a single action revolver.
     

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