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LAR-15

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Gun control backers thwarted in Senate debate
Wed Jul 27, 2005 7:23 PM ET
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WASHINGTON, July 27 (Reuters) - Gun control advocates in the U.S. Senate, unable to halt a bill that would shield the firearms industry from some lawsuits, tried unsuccessfully on Wednesday to put some gun safety measures in the measure.

With a clear majority of the Senate backing it, the "Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act" appears set to pass the Senate within the next few days. It is a top priority of the National Rifle Association, the influential gun lobby, and the White House has strongly endorsed it.

Critics acknowledged that they were not likely to be able to defeat the bill, but they had hoped through amendments to try to create an opportunity to vote on other firearms-related measures such as requiring background checks at gun shows or limiting sales of .50 caliber military sniper rifles.

Some lawmakers said closing gun sale loopholes had become even more imperative during the U.S. "war on terror."

But Senate Republican leaders used procedural moves to swiftly block amendments for most of Wednesday. In the evening, they agreed to a vote on one measure involving child safety locks, but it remained unlikely that the Senate would vote on any of the more controversial initiatives.

"That's the reality we face," said Sen. Jack Reed, a Rhode Island Democrat who considers the liability bill "a travesty."

Last year backers of the bill ended up unexpectedly killing it after amendments extending the assault weapons ban and requiring gun show background checks were added. This year the advocates of the legislation said they would try to get rid of any unpalatable amendments during negotiations with the House -- but that their preference was to not allow any amendments.

The two sides also fought over the breadth of the bill. Backers argued that it is a narrowly crafted bill, designed to stop politically-motivated "junk lawsuits" aimed at forcing law-abiding gun manufacturers and dealers into bankruptcy by holding them responsible if someone uses a gun in a crime.

"This bill is a cultural moment in American history," said Sen. Lindsey Graham, a South Carolina Republican. The "frivolous" lawsuits are based on "a dangerous concept that would change America for the worst," he added.

Majority Leader Bill Frist, a Tennessee Republican who fondly recalled hunting trips with his sons, said Congress needed to stop junk lawsuits in order to save jobs in an industry that also provided weapons for national defense.

But critics said that the bill goes much further and would prevent action even against distributors who supply guns to criminals. They said it would halt lawsuits by policemen shot on the job or families who lost loved ones to the 2002 Washington-area snipers.

"The real effect of this bill would be to prevent victims of gun violence from pursuing even obviously valid claims in state or federal courts," said Sen. Edward Kennedy, a Massachusetts Democrat.

Sen. Mark Dayton, a Minnesota Democrat, said the bill provided the industry "almost complete immunity from lawsuits" for negligence.



© Reuters 2005. All Rights Reserved.
 
"The real effect of this bill would be to prevent victims of gun violence from pursuing even obviously valid claims in state or federal courts," said Sen. Edward Kennedy, a Massachusetts Democrat.
And the hero of Chappaquidick should know about valid claims, once having been the victim of a defective bridge.
 
I am opposed to moving to this bill ahead of the Patriot Act and other important legislation. And if the Senate does move to this bill, I intend to offer at least one amendment, which would put dangerous and destructive .50 caliber military sniper rifles in the same category as weapons such as machine guns and sawed-off shotguns.

These extremely powerful sniper rifles are powerful enough to bring down airplanes and can fire a bullet a mile and penetrate a brick wall. They are for sale virtually anywhere, even at gun shows with no background checks. If this bill passes, these potential terrorist weapons would continue to be for sale with virtual blanket liability protection.”

-Senator Feinstein


(Larry Craig says no)
 
But, but, there's no difference between the republicans and Democrats, and the republicans never do anything good for gun owners, right? Right?
 
They have to do more than just slow down the gun grabbing steamroller, Rebar. They're in the majority and need to act like it; they need to introduce and pass legislation rolling back restrictions, not just block new ones.
 
They have to do more than just slow down the gun grabbing steamroller, Rebar. They're in the majority and need to act like it; they need to introduce and pass legislation rolling back restrictions, not just block new ones.
True enough, but they have to be careful about it, so as to maintain their majority. We are all impatient to get back to true RKBA, but slow and steady wins the race.
 
Bush is a lifeline into the judiciary for the Federalist Society. A few more supremes of the right stripe and the 2nd amendment is as good as ours. Remember how quickly abortion got turned around with a single court decision?
 
A few more supremes of the right stripe and the 2nd amendment is as good as ours. Remember how quickly abortion got turned around with a single court decision?
I agree. But even then we still got to be careful, we want to put judges on next term too.
 
You need 60 plus votes to overcome fillibuster in the senate.

When we get 60 consistently pro gun seats, then we will be able to attack gun laws.

The only reason FOPA 1986 passed the senate of the US with no poison pills was because REPUBLICANS controlled it.

As they do now but not with enough pro gun senators to really rock and roll.

In 2006 we need more pro gun seats and if we get them then we should expect some good rollbacks.

Frist is certainly on OUR side.

Now do you want him in charge or Dick Durbin?

At the very least with Republicans in charge you will not see the 'assault weapons ban' enacted again.

Just give Dianne Feinstein the Judiciary chairmanship and well........ :uhoh:


Just dealing in political realities.
 
These people still don't seem to get it. It isn't a question of right and wrong. These are subjecive. My view of right and wrong will certainly differ slightly from everyone else's on the planet. It will differ from some greatly.

Their job is to do the will of the people. Period. Whether or not they agree with it personally is irrelevant.
 
Maybe, just maybe we can get the import parts ban overturned and handgun ownership back in DC.

But that will be it for this congress- at least for awhile.

Don't forget about other issues like John Roberts and John Bolton.

Just two years ago who would have thought the AWB would sunset?
 
We more than likely have one more this term, maybe two?
Rehnquist is looking really bad health-wise. REALLY bad. He's stubborn though, they might have to carry his corpse out of the court.

Also it seems Stevens and Ginsburg are getting on in age, and aren't in the best of health. If I had to bet, it would be Stevens who would resign this term. Ginsburg, she'll most likely try to last out until the next term, so she can possibly be replaced by a Democrat.
In 2006 we need more pro gun seats and if we get them then we should expect some good rollbacks.
I agree, although some folks here think that electing "pro-gun" Democrats is a good idea, which would hold us back.
 
I had doubts about Frist before about a year ago. Now that he has come through for us repeatedly, I have to ask, why isnt he running for president in 08? Surely it would be a kick upstairs and he could nominate his own replacement until they have elections again.

I really dont want McCain.

Btw, polls show that Rice would lose to pretty much everyone (including hillary) except John Kerry. I really dont want to see her drafted. I love her views on the issues, but winning is job number one. (and winning means having someone not hillary in the whitehouse).
 
Btw, polls show that Rice would lose to pretty much everyone (including hillary) except John Kerry.
Except Kerry. Sorry but that just strikes me as too damn funny! :evil:

I don't know who was worse?

Mr. "I would rather be the candidate of the NAACP than the NRA."
Mr. "I actually did vote for the $87 billion before I voted against it. "

Or,

Mr. "Lock Box" and "I took the initiative in creating the Internet."

(and winning means having someone not hillary in the whitehouse).
Amen!
 
Not over yet

The Majority Leader PROMISED that he would hear some amendments tommorow. Now, we all know that the Kohl amendment child safetly lock issue will likely go through, but god knows in the past we have seen Frist do some insane stuff in the closing battle. If the Kohl Amendment is the only thing that gets thrown in, fine...

Tommorow morning shall tell

Michael
http://www.ncgun.com - Administrator
 
What is this safety lock crap?

Why should I safety lock stuff if I have a gun safe for my unused guns and why should I safety lock my home defense guns?

I say that we get together and sue the government for a refund for the locks we dont need. If it passes.
 
safety lock

It's just a safety lock THAT HAS TO BE SOLD WITH THE GUN. It's just being allowed in so that the Democrats who are supporting the bill won't get shaky and go against.

Michael
 
I dont want 10 dollars or however much added to the cost of every handgun I buy. They can bite me.

I already have enough of the stupid paperweights from when I lived in CA.
 
The only reason FOPA 1986 passed the senate of the US with no poison pills was because REPUBLICANS controlled it.
I won't disagree that it was, on the whole, good legislation, nor that it wouldn't have happened without Republican control, but there was a poison pill: closing the NFA registry for new machine guns. Were it not for that, I'd be able to buy an M-16 for a tenth what they cost today.
 
Are there any gun companies that don't include a cable lock anymore? In Maryland it's required, but my Ruger rifle and Winchester shotgun both came with them from the factory, and I think the lock that came with my CZ was already included.
 
Goa

GOA sent out an Alert earlier saying NO NO NO to any amendments. We shall see. C-SPAN 2 is going to be fun tommorow. I can't record the video of the entire debate tommorow, as it would be like a 4 GB mp3 file. But I am going to record the meat and potatoes.
 
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