The Ultimate!

[Smoke]

It may be YOUR ultimate weapon, but it ain't THE ultimate weapon.

My ultimate shotgun has wood furniture, no side saddle but does have a butt cuff, and has rifle sights. At least it doesn't have a pistol grip

Blain, have your tried inverting the rounds in your side saddle? Most folks find the can do faster reloads witht he brass down. You can pull rounds down and slip them right in the feed tube. YMMV

Smoke

 

[BerettaNut92]

Smoke, my saddle is either too tight when I need the rounds quick, or too loose when when doing the shoulderpounding :banghead: I took mine off.

 

[Mute]

Vang Comp does do an incredible job on their shotguns. Much better than the overhyped and overpriced Scatterguns.

 

[Smoke]

Skunk,

I've seen that before. I've also seen a lot of people that swear by them. (Folks that have actually needed them too )

Maybe try a different brand (or even just a different one)

I like the butt cuff myself. I made mine out of leather. It was a natural transition to have shotgun rounds there since I've often carried rifle rounds on the same place.

Smoke

 

[Navy joe]

Navyjoe:
>> There is no ultimate weapon. Especially one that jams with certain ammo. <<

Did you think that was a Benelli?

No, I thought it was a pimped up 870. The problem as originally described by Blain.

The problem can come from when you fire magnum 3.5" buckshot loads. This is the problem I experienced. I was test firing 3.5" buckshot shells and had fired 15 or so. I was firing custom loads, so they were slightly higher pressure than the normal ones. One of the rounds actually caused the bolt to slam the receiver too hard and the flimsy metal thing got bent out of operation. This caused the gun to be jammed until I could disassemble and remove the metal covering

So first you call your gun the "ultimate" and then you point out a problem in its design that could put it hard down under field conditions.

Name me one gun that WON'T jam with certain ammo. You give it to me and I'll build a pressure round to break/jam it.

Not only do you believe in ultimate magical guns, you're an irresponsible reloader. As far as in spec loads I have a relatively stock 870 Pd that will digest anything and has for a long while. As far as your toy, it may only choke on your supertop-secret loads now, but give it time and wear and eventually the 3"mag loads will break it too. I credit you, I did learn something in this fluff thread, I was previously unaware of the design compromise of 3.5" 870s, I'll carefully consider this if I ever get the pointless urge for a 3.5 gun.

As far as your gun, it's kinda cute. I'd be more impressed if it was beat down, shot 100K times looking. I like the barrel, going to Vang one of my 870s eventually. Have shot a Compstock, I hate them, I'd rather have a rigid stock. Sidesaddle, ok, I keep them on mine, I'm considering a nylon 7 shot one that 3-gun gear sells. Very nice, very secure. The light, I may get one, I love my Surefire, but it seems everyone I know with one of these takes the light off in practice and matches for fear of hurting it. The sling, I don't see the point for HD, just a liability.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Nice piece, but....

My idea of the Ultimate, like friend Corriea's, is a Big Four pump held by some guy that's put a truckload of ammo through it and plans on making it home to his family after shift change.

Hardware's fun, but the software decides what name goes on the toe tag down at the morgue.

 

[Maddock]

Great shotgun, Blain.
How did you get a chrome-lined barrel?

 

[sm]

Blain, I'm glad you are happy with your efforts, I hope it serves you well.

I'm gonna go and sit with Correia, Smoke and Dave, if you don't mind.

Smoke - is the leather cuff you made similar to the Orvis recoil pad made of leather that laces on the bottom of Stock? I really like the leather ones, they hold up well and shells don't slide around. Mine walked off, old boy made me one some 20 yrs ago...sigh.

I like the blue and wood , I have used the cuff, I have used a 1 or 2 rd extension, have used a police trade in with wood funiture.

When a fellow shows up at range and the soft-sided gun case zipper is busted, case has material missing, the wood and blue has "character" on his gun, he had cardboard boxes/5gal buckets of reloads...I'm gonna shoot and learn from this fella. I will be honored to partner up with him...going against him is the last thing I want to do. Even so, I'm gonna give him a run for his money, and learn from it. Gets down to it and the decison is made on gun cases...I "might" have and edge...one of mine literally fell apart after 30 yrs...if I can find all the pcs...I gotta a chance.

 

[Dave McCracken]

sm, come sit with Corriea, Smoke and me over here in the corner, where we have a clear field of fire if it hits the fan and nobody can get behind us. I'll buy the coffee.

Note that lots of folks who showed up here never crawled out into the sunlight in that inquiry thread.

There's shotgunners and there's collectors of shotgun paraphenalia....

 

[Al Thompson]

 

[Brian Williams]

Not a Shotgunner yet, I have a Winny 1300 that I put a side saddle on and am learning to shoot. I got a bunch of old shot shells from My Father in law that are real old and need to be shot up and I need to shoot more.... It is my Combo gun, I slip the side saddle off and it is my Turkey gun with a extra full choke, spin out the full and put in a imp cyl and slide in the side saddle and itis my HD boomstick. Now I just need work to slow done and let me get some range time.

Ultimate????? a tool that is well used and has become an extension of the Mind and body behind it. Can I sit in the corner too I need learnin'.

 

[TrapperReady]

Dave - I generally agree with nearly all you have to say.

However, I will take (minor) issue with your line:

"There's shotgunners and there's collectors of shotgun paraphenalia...."

Every true shotgunner I've known also collects shotgun paraphernalia. If you don't think this is true, just look around your reloading bench... if you can see it under all the paraphernalia.

I too would be more inclined to fear the guy with the well-worn stock 870 as opposed to the tricked out gadget-tube, but we ALL collect shotgun stuff. Not counting the guns I've got a tremendous amount of stuff. Much is dedicated to reloading, and much is for safety (shooting glasses and muffs and plugs litter my corner of the basement), and some is stuff that I thought I once needed.

I know that your pet peeve is with all of the tactical doo-dads and stuff, and you do definitely have a point. However, whenever there is machinery... shotguns, cars, motorcycles, barbeque grills, etc... there will always be a certain group of people that can't resist tricking them out. It's just human nature. Heck, there's probably someone out there who looked at the pictures of your 870s and thought "Look at that fancy adjustable recoil pad... grumble... grumble... Why, when I was a kid we just shot whatever we had... grumble... grumble... Didn't need no adjustable peep sights, neither... grumble... grumble...".

If someone takes pride in what they've got or made, then I'm not (usually) going to rain on their parade. It's one of the reasons I hate to see folks with high-$$$ shotguns look down on folks shooting beat-up meat guns AND the reverse. If everyone was the same, it'd be pretty boring.

BTW, I do agree with the concept of there being no ultimate weapon. Weapons are simply tools, and particular tools may be very-well suited to particular jobs. The best shotgun in the world is a crappy weapon at 200 yards. The best rifle is nearly useless in a cramped elevator. Artillery is great unless the good guys are too close to the bad guys... and so on.

 

[Correia]

Trapper, I ain't Dave, but I know how he feels. I've got no problem with swoopy gear. In fact I'm saving up for an EOTech for my rifle. It don't get much more swoopy than that. In fact you should see my latest 870, it is going to be tricked out for one specific thing, and it is going to be very cool for that, but pretty useless for anything else.

I think that shooter vs. paraphanelia collector is true though. Except that it should be Shooter AND paraphanelia collecter vs. just paraphanelia collecter. Every hard core shooter I know has drawers full of stuff that has been bought, experimented with, and discarded. Heck, there is a great thread here when I bought a comp stock just to beat the crap out of it and test a ton of ammo through it with half a dozen different shooters and a PACT timer. (sold it to the only tester that liked it! ) Heck, I even bought a Saiga 12 because it was cool and different, and I figured I would give it a good work out, and if I didn't like it I could get my money back (got a good deal). However I found that it is really a very nice gun for its specific purpose and I love it.

I think that the thing that got all of the hard core shooters hackles raised about this was the casual use of the word ULTIMATE. Personally I wouldn't mind at all owning the gun that started this thread. (however I would throw the comp stock in the river).

 

[TrapperReady]

Correia - I agree with the misuse of ULTIMATE. However, the original poster is known for strong opinions, so I kind of let that one slide. It's why I asked him how it shot. All the geegaws and jimdandies don't mean a thing if it doesn't shoot reliably and accurately. Likewise, if it runs and you can hit with it, I don't much care if you've got the kitchen sink and a supercharger strapped onto it.

Over the years, I've participated in a number of sports and hobbies which tend to devolve into gear-based cliques. Bicycle road-racing, motorcycling, rock-climbing, skiiing, etc... It's amazing to see the "old-school" vs. "new-school" battles being fought almost eveywhere. I just tend to get a little hyper-sensitive to it once in a while.

 

[sm]

Perfessr, yes you may sit with in the corner with us...umm... bring that K frame, of yours btw, you take great pics, but I want a closer look .

I have collected "a few hulls" ... so I guess I had paraphenalia and didn't know it...they were referred to by other names by an ex tho'...

 

[TrapperReady]

As an aside for all those contributing to this devolution of the thread...

Paraphernalia is almost NEVER spelled correctly. That extra "r" just doesn't seem right.

BTW, according to my dictionary one usage of the word is:

"the separate real or personal property of a married woman of a married woman that she can dispose of by will and sometimes according to common law during her life"

I better never let my wife see that, lest she decide that she needs to clean up my reloading bench and the accompanying paraphernalia.

 

[Correia]

Trapper, I can't spell. I'm an accountant!

 

[sm]

TR you are correct...

I made straight A's in spelling and penmanship. Then abbreviations, acronyms and symbols replaced spelling words fully. Fast talking lectureres eroded my penmanship. I don't think I ever had to spell the word "change" or "half",for two years; I used the Delta symbol and "ss".

I'm from the South, lots of words are not spelled the way they are spoken down here. I learned to read by the Phoenics method...and add to that we have words here a lot of folks - ain't.

Uh oh done "tumped" a box of shells over...

Yes TR you are correct, I'm guilty , I get lazy, and I've become spoiled by spell-check. I just figure I'm around family and don't put forth the effort.

Correia , I'm glad accounts exist, keeping numbers in a straight line is tough when as a kid you had a tendency to color outside the lines...

Ok, I'll try to do better...even for a southern boy I think some yankee stuck an "r" in where it don't belong tho'....

 

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

Not the paint brush---but the painter.

A skilled operator with lower equipment is more fearsome than the wannabee with the latest uber tactical contraption.

 

[Dave McCracken]

TR, a very good point. My reloading bench is quite visible. The walk in closet in the basement that the family calls "Daddy's Store" really is a walkin only if great care is taken in placing the feet. Paraphernalia I've got.

As for the bellsnwhistles...

I've no problem at all with stuff added to shotguns provided that it's intended as supplemental to use and not a substitute.

The first accessory anyone needs is plenty of ammo.

Second, range fees and targets.

If you refer to the pics I posted, you'll see that my shotguns are far from stock for the most part. But that battery lying on the table has a history of 30K rounds behind them in my hands. I doubt I'm flattering myself when I say I shoot them fairtomiddlin'. And I shot them plenty before the first mod or accessory happened.

Remember the definition. Something that helps direct the shot to the target in comfort is of worth.

But in the Temple of The Shotgun Gods, the altar of Cool Stuff is not where I worship.

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

Blain looks at that gun and sees the ultimate shotgun. I look at that gun and see a wronghanded gun that has a loading port that's blocked by the lifter, and a safety and bolt release in inconvenient locations. It's all in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Smoke]

sm,

Smoke - is the leather cuff you made similar to the Orvis recoil pad made of leather that laces on the bottom of Stock?

Yes...I think. I went to Orvis website but couldn't find an example.
I made mine from 8oz saddle skirting, it laces on the bottom and holds six rounds.

 

[Ringer]

Last year I learned really fast the importance of practice. With that said why not add what you want or what you think will benefit you? As long as you shoot it well and continue to practice. If it is a showpiece that you'd be afraid to drop, bang around etc, or think the add-ons replace the need for practice, best leave it in the safe.

It's all in the eye of the beholder.

I couldn't agree with Andrew more on this. Blain and Smoke have both displayed what I think are Awesome guns. Neither would be MY Ultimate, but I'd be proud to own either one.

 

[sm]

Smoke,

Yep , thats is it.

Shells stayed put, raised the comb to better fit me on a WM and a Police trade-in 870 with food furniture (I used mine on various guns), used a leather belt with the "red shells". Case Mako Sharp Lockback on the belt. 12 loops to hold handgun ammo, though a mag/speedlaoder usually was close by/or put onto belt as well.

Pc of rawhide cut to fit about a 1/2 wide with slits cut and sewn as to keep from splitting further. Slip-knot into self , one end grip/other the bbl, great for a sling. sling only used to walk in or out of and area, launch a boat, ride on the side of tractor...

Scary close resemblance. I used a simple heavy Brass buckle...yours is classier, but not being in TX...I respect that.

I may have an Old Orvis catalog, the shell holder and recoil pad are quite good. Especially if one needs to raise comb. Moleskin works...but somethings like wood,leather, and a good women have a scent and character that cannot be substituted.

 

[Gewehr98]

I have to agree with Smoke on that ULTIMATE term...

It may be YOUR ultimate weapon, but it ain't THE ultimate weapon.

Especially not if it needs batteries to be categorized as ultimate. A Compstock may add coolness factor, but that and the porting aren't necessary for a scattergun to perform the HD function. A plain-old, wood-stocked 870 wearing the battlescars of years of use and carry does the job just fine. No pimp factor, sure, but the complexity factor is much lower, too.

No sidesaddles, flashlights, or porting on my HD gun. I burned my hand on the barrel after firing a magazine-tube's worth of 3" magnums, so the heatshield has value to me. The big-head safety button's easy to find in the dark. The USGI mag tube/barrel bracket made things incredibly strong, so it's nice, too. The sling means my wife and I can bug out with it when the sheriff's department comes by and says we gotta leave due to the hurricane heading our way on this barrier island. Sometimes the looters don't bug out, but wait until we do...

And the bayonet? I was curious what that odd lug was on the forward sling swivel bracket.



There's no way on Gawd's Green Earth I'd call my housegun above the ULTIMATE. Because I know I can give folks like Dave McCracken my old Remington Model 11 and he'd show me things I never knew I could do with a scattergun. Regardless of how well practiced I am with my HD 870. That's humbling, in and of itself.