The Ultimate!

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Wrong? Ok Blain, I expect to see you whipping the pants off of practical shotgunners everywhere.

So I assume you are one of those people that thinks hardware makes NO difference…. A mustket is just as effective in combat as a M14. I suppose that since one doesn’t NEED a better firearm to fight with, the military should have stuck with 1903 springfields. Heck, it could hold and fire 5 rounds, it was powerful and accurate, why upgrade? I am glad that the US military and police do not hold your additude when it comes to equipment. We would still be using 5 shot bolt action rifles and, candle light, and c-rations. To say that better equipment doesn’t make a soldier/shooter more effective in combat is ignorant. A good shooter can do better with good equipment than he can with lesser stuff. End of story. Do you have a television?

So first you call your gun the "ultimate" and then you point out a problem in its design that could put it hard down under field conditions.

Umm, it was a flaw of the part according to Remington, it is fixed and replaced with a new part from the factory. The issue is moot, though, as I would not be firing 3.5†loads in the field, and even if it DID jam again, I just have to take the part off (the only purpose it serves it to cover the port) and I am back in business. Do you use an AR?

Not only do you believe in ultimate magical guns, you're an irresponsible reloader.

I don’t reload, another malicious defamation. I bought those shells from Nitro Industries. Again, see my post on the shells above.

As far as in spec loads I have a relatively stock 870 Pd that will digest anything and has for a long while.

So has and does my gun, it is also an 870 if you havn’t forgotten.

As far as your toy, it may only choke on your supertop-secret loads now, but give it time and wear and eventually the 3"mag loads will break it too.

Give your gun time and eventually the 2 ¾†birdshot shells will break it like a cheap cap-gun. See how meaningless strawman accusations are? No, my gun does not “break†from normal loads, nor has it had any problems with them. Nor will it. The part was faulty according to Remington and it has been replaced. Again, if the part chokes up ONE more time with the super magnum loads, it is off for good and that is the end of that issue. It IS an 870 after all. I bet you my gun will last LONGER than yours!

I credit you, I did learn something in this fluff thread, I was previously unaware of the design compromise of 3.5" 870s, I'll carefully consider this if I ever get the pointless urge for a 3.5 gun.

I see that you appear to be very jealous of my superior weaponry, as you should be. You assume I based my Ultimate shotgun on a super magnum because I wanted it to be more powerful? (You know what they say about people who ASSume things?) While it is true that the 3.5†12 gauge shell gives you 10 gauge power, that is not the primary reason I got the super magnum as I intend to use 2 ¾†loads primarily for men. I got my gun as a 3 ½†so that it would be capable of using and digesting ANY and EVERY type of 12 gauge ammo available. Part of what makes my gun “The Ultimate†is its ability to use any and every type of shell chambered in 12 gauge. A nice security feature. Can your gun do that?

Great shotgun, Blain.
How did you get a chrome-lined barrel?

Not sure, it was an option that I told Hans I wanted. He sent the gun off to someone else to have the chrome done. He then brushed it so it wouldn’t be as reflective or something. (didn’t ask for it, he did it and told me about it later).

A skilled operator with lower equipment is more fearsome than the wannabee with the latest uber tactical contraption.

And a skilled operator with superior equipment is always better than a skilled operator with crap equipment. Why do you people have such a hard time grasping that fact? Who here drives a car made after the 1970s? Why? I could go on and on. Yes, I know that equipment doesn’t make up for skill, but to say that better equipment doesn’t matter is just ignorance. It wouldn’t matter what shotgun one were to buy then.


Especially not if it needs batteries to be categorized as ultimate.

It doesn’t NEED the batteries.

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The ULTIMATE. You know it, you FEAR it. You love it.
 
Ok, Moderator hat off. This is Larry the THR member talking.

Blain, you quote me out of context and then say: "(You know what they say about people who ASSume things?)"

No Blain, I don't believe in sticking with old fashioned guns for the sake of old fashionedness, if you would go back and look in this very thread I mentioned that fact and how I was buying an EO Tech, it don't get much more swoopy than that. If there is something out there that can reduce my split times by .1 of a second consistently I would probably be writing out a check for it right now.

But here is the kicker Blain, you can't buy Ultimate. You have TO FREAKING EARN ULTIMATE. You can talk smack about how super cool your gun is, and I have no doubt that it is a nice gun, but that is all it is, a nice gun. The Ultimate title that you bestow on it is nothing better than wishful thinking.

Blain, you talk about great shooters vs. great shooters, listening to you for all this time on this board I'll belive that you are a great shooter when I see it.

You want to show me that your gun is the ULTIMATE? I'm going to throw an all shotgun tactical match later this year. 8 or 9 stages testing every practical shotgun skill you can think of. You are more than welcome to come out and show us posers and gamers what the ULTIMATE can do.

Or the US Practical Shotgun Championships are in Alabama June 19th and 20th. This is the premier match of the best practical shotgunners on Earth. I'm sure that they would love to have you come out there and educate them about what is the ULTIMATE shotgun. I'm going to try and make it to that match. However my strategy is a little different than yours, I'm going to shut my mouth, and listen to what the best of the best have to say, and try and learn from them and not embarass my self.

In the mean time, I'm willing to bet that I can take a box stock 870 Express and beat the pants off of you in the practical shotgun drill of your choice. Now if that is possible, I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that your gun hasn't earned the title of ULTIMATE. Let me use my race gun and I'll whoop you so bad that your dog will cry.

Some of your mods are practical. The Vang work, the light, some folks even like the compstock, though my testing of it with a big cross section of shooters made it look less than ideal. Good for you, but that doesn't make it ULTIMATE. The ultimate shotgun would enable you to greatly increase your skill. The ultimate shotgun would be a tool tailored for an ultimate shooter.

Like I said before, that is a nice gun. But you wonder why you are receiving attitude from the other posters about it? You come into a board filled with people who eat, sleep, live, and breath guns, and you spout off about things that you have no understanding of. You tell people who have hunted bears in Alaska for 20 years that everything they know about bear ammo is wrong, when you haven't ever shot anything bigger than a jack rabbit. You tell guys with years of actual combat experience that everything they have learned from first hand experience about their rifle, its cartridge, and its actual use is totally wrong, when you have zero actual experience to back it up.

No Blain, at this point, after all this time, I'm amazed that you can be surprised at all that some of your postings raise other poster's hackles.

And yes Blain, I do own a TV.

:rolleyes:

Your analogy is pretty much wrong. You are comparing a musket to an M14 and its equivelent 200+ years of firearms evolution, as if your 870 with some extra trinkets tacked on is somehow light years ahead of any other pump shotgun with some trinkets tacked on.

You want the title of ULTIMATE? The burden of proof is on you. You have to earn ULTIMATE.
 
Errrr, Blain .... dude, you seem to be missing the point. People aren't saying that "a superior weapon" (which in itself is a subjective description and is dependent on what you're actually trying to do with it) doesn't have any effect, they're saying that the GREATEST effect you can have to increase the effectiveness of the gun/shooter combo is by tightening the nut behind the butt. The great thing about it is its transferrable to different shotgun activities and different shotguns too.

Just because you drive a Ferrari it doesn't mean you are a Ferrari driver!

Oh, and Blain .... in case you hadn't realised it although you think your shotgun is the ultimate, I get the impression that it doesn't really float the boats of a lot of folks here. That don't mean that either you or them are wrong ... just different.

Spinner
 
Oh and Blain, you wanna talk about logical fallacies? In your last post I saw :false dichotomy, ad hominen, and reductio ad absurdum.

Correia wrote: "I'll whoop you so bad that your dog will cry."

That may be the ULTIMATE verbal beat down. :D Or not.:rolleyes:
 
Very pretty shotgun.
It doesn't appear to be the ultimate trap,skeet,sporting clays, turkey, deer,duck or goose etc. shotgun however, so it can't really be the Ultimate shotgun. [:p]
Is it the ultimate combat shotgun for competition? Probably so

BTW, why do so many pictures show carry straps on home defense guns? Or are these all work guns, and there are an inordinate amount of LEO's here who tote one around on their backs? I can think of a million things in my home that would snag on them,so I don't use one for HD. I can't see USING a carry strap in my home or even if I'm actively looking for something on a large tract of property. The gun should be in my hands in those cases. Is it the "bug out" factor?
My shotgun isn't really a "bug out" gun,so I've never really considered that last option.
 
Blain....

Talk's cheap.

I hope I can speak for some of us.

Corriea lives in Utah.

sm in the Widwest.

Al Thompson in South Carolina.

Denny Hansen, IIRC, calls Arizona home.

I'm in Maryland, and maybe a dozen THR folks have been able to find me.

Find any of us. Name the COF and outshoot us,or at least come close. Results posted here. Use your Ubershotgun, we'll use whatever one we feel like. I'd use one of my well worn "Serious" 870s.

Ever hear the expression,"Put up or shut up?".....
 
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Uhmmmm - - -

Dave - - -

While we'd be proud and pleased to have Denny and any of his family resident under the Lone Star - - -
Unless something's changed recently, I think you'll find Denny in Arizona.

Which is NOT to say that there aren't a fair number of scattergunners in Texas to could take the box-stock, issue 870 out of my safe and outshoot any number of guys with any number of Sooper-Dooper Uber Ultimate shotguns . . . . Nope, I don't claim to be one of 'em - - I've just watched some at work.

Best,
Johnny
 
You know it, you FEAR it.

"Fear", "laugh at", whichever... :rolleyes:

I'm no long-time veteran like Dave McC nor am I a hard-core competitor like Correia.

I ain't even much of a shotgun fan.

I'm a pistol enthusiast and a rifle collector, but for the last eighteen years there's been some form or another of pretty much box-stock 18" or 20" cylinder-bore pump-action 12 gauge propped in a corner of my domicile. Mostly Mossenberger 500's, but the latest is a Remington 870 and I seem to recall a Squires & Bingham at some point in the past. I think one may have had a sidesaddle on it.

Call me paleolithic, but I have a hard time distinguishing between one cylinder-bore slide-action scattergun and another. I mean, various gizmos and modifications, from heat shields, pistol grips and ghost rings to side saddles and back-boring, are nice and all, but hardly necessary to the mission, and anyone placing too much reliance on them for Ultimateness is setting themselves up for a sad and potentially fatal disappointment.

I'm sure that at some point the current 870 (which is in serious danger of getting doodadded up) and the ChiCom '97 clone will be sold and/or traded away, but I've no doubt that the 1300/500/590/Nova/1897/870/37/Model 12 that replaces them will be every bit as Ultimate, in all its simple, bead-sighted glory... :uhoh:
 
Watch out guys, he might use the ultimate ammunition known to man-buckshot. Combine that with the ultimate weapon and it might destroy all life on Earth.
 
I haven't heard that kind of "My gun can kick your guns butt" rant since I stopped going to Half-Life:Firearms mod forums

Yes, I am sorry it has come to this. But I will not sit idly by and let some guy bad mouth my shotgun, I have to defend it.

I'm going to try and make it to that match. However my strategy is a little different than yours, I'm going to shut my mouth, and listen to what the best of the best have to say, and try and learn from them and not embarass my self.


Yes, that is what I would do as well with the addition of asking a question or to. People with wisdom and experience must be listened to and respected. They have much to teach.


In the mean time, I'm willing to bet that I can take a box stock 870 Express and beat the pants off of you in the practical shotgun drill of your choice. Now if that is possible, I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that your gun hasn't earned the title of ULTIMATE. Let me use my race gun and I'll whoop you so bad that your dog will cry.


Now this is what I can’t understand, when did I say I could beat you in a shotgun match or that I was a better gunner than you? I claimed no such thing, I am not up here bragging about my skills, just showing off my gun which I light heartedly nick named “The Ultimateâ€. You know what, Correia? You’re probably a better shooter than me! I am not afraid to admit it. You’re the man. Is that what you want to hear?

Some of your mods are practical. The Vang work, the light, some folks even like the compstock, though my testing of it with a big cross section of shooters made it look less than ideal.

I designed the gun so that it would be ideal under combat conditions. As such I implemented what I thought were the best and practical mods. The compstock works VERY well at taming recoil, I was surprised at how well it worked. I would rather have a recoil reducing stock which would allow me to fire faster follow up shots, than weight the gun down with four more shells in the stock.

The ultimate shotgun would enable you to greatly increase your skill. The ultimate shotgun would be a tool tailored for an ultimate shooter.

Yes, it is.

But you wonder why you are receiving attitude from the other posters about it?


Yes, I am, actually. I post about the firearm in jest and got some pretty nasty replies……very disappointing. I had expected better from this board than that.


You come into a board filled with people who eat, sleep, live, and breath guns, and you spout off about things that you have no understanding of. You tell people who have hunted bears in Alaska for 20 years that everything they know about bear ammo is wrong, when you haven't ever shot anything bigger than a jack rabbit. You tell guys with years of actual combat experience that everything they have learned from first hand experience about their rifle, its cartridge, and its actual use is totally wrong, when you have zero actual experience to back it up.



………I’m afraid I don’t know what you’re talking about.


Errrr, Blain .... dude, you seem to be missing the point. People aren't saying that "a superior weapon" (which in itself is a subjective description and is dependent on what you're actually trying to do with it) doesn't have any effect, they're saying that the GREATEST effect you can have to increase the effectiveness of the gun/shooter combo is by tightening the nut behind the butt.


Yes, very kind of them to point this out. I would have thought that such knowledge would be self explanatory. But where did I say that one’s shooting skill was dependant on the quality of their equipment?


Very pretty shotgun.
It doesn't appear to be the ultimate trap,skeet,sporting clays, turkey, deer,duck or goose etc. shotgun however, so it can't really be the Ultimate shotgun. [:p]
Is it the ultimate combat shotgun for competition? Probably so.


Yes, I agree.


George Hill, great pic! :D


Blain....

Talk's cheap.


Yes, it is indeed. I am not disagreeing with you.

Find any of us. Name the COF and outshoot us,or at least come close. Results posted here. Use your Ubershotgun, we'll use whatever one we feel like. I'd use one of my well worn "Serious" 870s.

Ever hear the expression,"Put up or shut up?".....

Dave….all of you, I appreciate the invitations, but where are you getting the idea that I claimed I was a superior shooter to any of you? I never claimed that my gun made me “better†than you, nor do I claim to be able to outshoot you. I respect all of you and your skill, I did not challenge you or anyone else’s ability so try to relax a little. Geeze….you guys are jumpy! A little trigger happy, are we?
 
Gee , don't you guys know?
You haven't heard?
You really should check out the other forums here at THR.

I learned from reading - Pink fuzzy dice hung from the front sight, increases accuracy, speed, split times and rumor is you will never blow a mag change.

A Shotgun version is coming out soon!

Yep I learned about it on the Internet. I gotta check and see if Tamara has in any stock. I wonder if Tamara will accept a M/O...

Being a guy and all I'd prefer something other than pink,( like green, blue, purple ) ..being secure and all with myself and masculinity...I can do pink.
:D

Someone needs to give H&H a heads up on this...Might be handy on Safari...
 
Blain-
Please tell me exactly what this shotgun will do that say a model 12 riot gun or an Ithaca 37 with an extended tube won't do. So it is better how? I could point out that the ithaca has bottom ejection so it is theoretically better in conditions like freezing rain. Does it make it better than an 870- no, just possibly better suited to one specific task.

Also, you stated that a part one your shotty broke and rendered the gun inoperatable, but its no big deal because if it happens again you will just take it off. Newflash - if it happens again you might not have TIME to take it off.

A little FYI for the rest of the High Roaders- Unless I am mistaken (and Blain please come to your own defense if it was a different Blain) Blain what on Hunt America a year or two back on the African Hunting boards telling actual P.H.s that buckshot was the ultimate ammo for cape buffalo.
You figure the rest out.............................
Matt (in total agreement with Dave, SM, and others.)
P.S. Would love to shoot with any of you guys if you venture into Iowa and tolerate "inferior" weapons like my Ithicas, Benelli, and Beretta 390.
 
I designed the gun so that it would be ideal under combat conditions.

Ummm Blain .... are you planning to go into combat anytime soon? With anybody in particular???

I'm sorry, but unless you're in the armed forces about to go into a combat zone that just sounds like the kind of thing a genuine card-carrying Mall Ninja would say ...... or somebody who's about to go postal!

I'm just glad you're unlikely to go postal in my neighbourhood.

Spinner
 
Blain, in all seriousness... When it comes to whooping butt with a shotgun... Correia is a Pro. He hands it to everyone in Utah during the 3 Gun matches out here. He could Devistate you with your Ultimate Shotgun using nothing more than a pointy stick. He is that good.
He can fire off a high capacity shotgun, nailing all the targets in like 2 seconds, reload it while flipping you the bird in another 2 seconds and firing it dry again before you could even get your arm around your Ultimate's sling.
Since he got serious with competition, I have not known him to loose a shotgun stage to anyone. And he is doing this with a PUMP while others are using fancy high end autoloaders.
He has done his best to enlighten you and give you some education. So wipe the KY off your shotgun and listen up. You need to go back and read again everything he posted. Twice. Then twice again. Guys like you who think they can buy skill... He defeats on a regular basis. I've seen it. He smoked me.

You want to ask questions of people who you have much to learn from - Correia IS the man.

And looking at your shotgun... Come on. It ain't all that. It's nice... but it ain't Ultimate. If you have to "defend it" then it aint ultimate. If you can't use it to the limits of it's ability... it aint ultimate.

In all seriousness Blain, I've seen guys like you before. They thought their Bike was "The Ultimate"... right up to the point when they crashed because they didn't know how to ride it. Forgive us if we doubt your skills with your ultimate wondergun... because we all have the impression that you are seriously lacking in the actual skills give some of your posts. (all of them?) This is why you are putting yourself into the Legendary status with the likes of the Mall Ninja or other certain Mythical Heroes.
My point is that you need to shut up, stop making a fool of yourself, and very respectfully ask questions so you might learn a thing or two.
 
Here's my "ultimate" :rolleyes: . It does everything I want it to: it busts clays all day long, kills birds just as dead as any other gun, looks pretty, and is a piece of fine craftmanship.
 

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I think everyone is being a little harsh on Blain (in certain respects). I don't have any problems with people insulting his shotty, because after all he did call it "the ultimate", and that's just begging for trouble. But the flames should probably be directed at the gun and not him. He didn't claim to be the best shotgunner out there, he just claimed to have the best shotgun (CoUgH..ugly..CoUgH) out there. Now everyone is claiming how they can kick his butt at the three gun. Regardless of the validity of these claims, I didn't see him posting about his three gun skills, so why insult his skills?

That said, Blain I don't like your shotgun. It has to much stuff hanging off it IMO. I like Gewehr98's and Skunk's much better.
 
Model 12

natedog

Now THAT is a classic!
Machined craftsmaship; proven in harsh conditions, competitions, afield...
Hey I'm biased...I appreciate Blue and Wood...I respect the Model 12...I've shucked a *few* rds thru one...
 
OUCH.

This thread has definately gone south.

Nowhere did I read that Blain ever consider himself superior to any of the members here on THR as far as "3-gun" skillz were concerned.

Through reading his posts, all I read was that his shotgun was "The ULTIMATE."

I like it, but it's not my personal preference.

His threads and posts are rash and highly opinionated, but he hasn't sported any sort of expertise in shotgunning during the course of this thread.

Maybe he's just having a little fun with THR?

Jim
 
I like the gun myself. I have one pretty much just like it except mine is a regular 3" chambered gun and it has the factory stock on it.

You know, I don't understand why people feel it nessessary to cut someone else to the bone like this. The guy put together a gun that he is proud of. Some people just can't allow anyone else to enjoy themselves.
Personally, I have to take Blain's side on this one. He never made any claims to being the three gun master, or being a great wing shot, or a national trap shooting champion. He did make the mistake of trying to share his joy in owning a fine custom firearm. My reaction to reading this thread was something like, "The High Road my rear end".
 
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