Thinking about adding an 1851 navy to my collection

[Lawdawg45]

I'll openly admit that I'm a SA junkie and that I regularly carry a Vaquero Sheriff's model as my CCW, so I'd like to add an 1851 Navy conversion model to that collection. I love the look, feel and balance to the '51, but I also love the connection between it and Wild Bill Hickok. His first documented kill was with this pistol and he made a center mass kill shot at over 70 yards with the .36 ball! I fairly sure my options are limited to a Uberti or Taylor, but my question relates to ammo. Are these modern replica's rated for .38 +P?

LD

 

[StrawHat]

Last time I checked, the 1851 was a cap and ball 36 caliber revolver. Black powder only.

 

[Pilot]

There are cartridge conversion 1851's avalaible, and kits to also convert the cap and ball version. I believe at one point Wild Bill did carry the cartridge converted 1851 Colt later in life.

 

[CraigC]

I've been chomping at the bit to add an 1851 Richards-Mason cartridge conversion to the stable, to go with my 1860 Type II and 1871-1872 Open Top, for several years now. The short little 4¾" version really calls to me. They're all made by Uberti and very good guns, whether imported by Dixie Gun Works, Taylor's, Cimarron, etc.. They're not rated for +P but will be fine for any standard pressure .38Spl load. I keep loads for my .44Colt's very sedate, a 240gr cast semi-wadcutter or swaged hollowpoint at around 750fps. These guns are a lot of fun to shoot and I carry mine to the woods quite often.

 

[PRM]

From Cimarron:

http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/OpenTop/OpenTop.htm#

Open Top Army and Navy models are also available in Charcoal Blue or Original Finish

Open Top Army grip

.44 Special
.44 Colt & Russian
.45 Schofield
.38 Colt & Special
.45 Colt

Open Top Navy grip

.45 Schofield
.44 Special
.44 Colt & Russian
.38 Colt & Special
.45 Colt

 

[CraigC]

That's the 1871-1872 Open Top model. Which was Colt's first dedicated cartridge model, not a conversion. He's talking about the 1851 Richards-Mason cartridge conversion.

http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/Conversions/51R-MConvOpener.htm

 

[Old Fuff]

These reproductions, like the originals, are held together by a key, or "wedge" that passes through the barrel and a slot in the basepin on which the cylinder revolves. If the pin should crack at the the slot both the barrel and cylinder are likely to go downrange. Sticking to black powder reloads is not a bad idea, with the next being mild charges of smokeless. Clearly they are not something you should hot-rod.

 

[Lovesbeer99]

Here's mine and I love it. It's feels like any other 1851 in weight and balance but it shoots 38 spls. I had to wait 10 months for the grips.

 

[MartinS]

They were worth the wait.

 

[madcratebuilder]

The cap and ball conversion cylinders should be limited to "cowboy" loads, or even better, retain the original cap and ball loading.

Open top Colts with conversion cylinders well eventually crack the frame at the bolt screw. This was a common problem with the R&M conversions.

The original configuration the recoil was centered around the arbor. With a centerfire conversion the recoil force is moved to the top of the recoil shield adding stress to the frame. This added stress put strain on the bottom of the frame and cracks form at the narrow area between the bottom corner of the frame and bolt screw hole.

If you insist on a conversion cylinder then you need to be sure the arbor is bottomed out in the barrel lug and the wedge is a tight fit.

 

[Lawdawg45]

Thanks for the replies folks!

LD

 

[Stophel]

The conversions need to be shot with actual .38 Colt heel-bullet ammo, or .38 spc with a hollow base wadcutter, since the bore is rather too large for a .357 diameter bullet.

 

[Dr.Rob]

I've looked at a number of these cartridge conversion guns and while they look like fun for occasional shooting with properly loaded 'cowboy' ammo... I wouldn't hot load any of them.

And 38 special wadcutters are pretty pussycat as far as recoil--they are still potentially lethal.

So yes while you COULD use one in a defensive role (why else would you want +p ammo) the relative fragility (say compared so a Ruger Vaquero in 357 or SAA clone in 38 special) I'd say maybe it shouldn't be your first choice.

 

[CraigC]

The conversions need to be shot with actual .38 Colt heel-bullet ammo, or .38 spc with a hollow base wadcutter, since the bore is rather too large for a .357 diameter bullet.

The factory cartridge conversions have the proper bore dimensions for their chambering. They are not the same as their percussion counterparts. Which means .358's for .38's and .430's for .44's.

 

[Stophel]

Ah, gotcha.