Thinking about an air pistol for practice

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Quackenbush!

These are not cheap but they produce some awesome results...These are serious items.

Go to quackenbush air rifles. www.quackenbushairguns.com/

He also makes pistols....incl a pic of one of those. The Exile is a very nice .308 caliber rifle.

The pistol will shoot a 200gr., 45 cal. lead semi-wadcutter bullet at 480 to 520fps, for 3 shots, which is slightly over 100 ft. lbs. These use .45 ACP bullets

Go to his website for more info. :)
 

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Somewhere there's a line between adult toy and entry-level competition piece, and I want the latter.

I'm torn between this, to. I normally shoot a S&W 686 (and 617) revolver, and lo and behold, a 686 airpistol is available. The advantage here would be to practice on the very same platform. Same grip, same sights, etc. Depending on what you normally shoot, you might be able to find an airclone, and there may be some advantage to considering it, even though it's an "adult toy". OTOH, I already have a Walther CP88 airpistol that falls into the "adult toy" category. It's very fun, and while it function like a revolver in that it can be shot in DA or SA mode, the DA trigger has a different feel than my real revolvers, so in the end, I don't know if there's any real benefit to practicing at home with the "adult toy" if the trigger's so different.

I'm therefore also thinking about something in the "entry competition" category. The Baikals look good as does the Crossman 2300S.

http://www.airgunsbbguns.com/Crosman_2300S_Air_Pistol_Co2_p/cro2300s.htm

http://www.airgunsbbguns.com/Crosman_2300S_Air_Pistol_Co2_p/cro2300s.htm
 
I have been going through the same process lately of trying to decide between an adult toy (SW 586) and an entry-level competitive gun, even though I will never shoot in competition. I guess I just like nice/accurate guns. Right now one of my top possibilities is a gun from the TAU-7 line:

http://www.airgunsofarizona.com/TAU BRNO.html


I am especially interested in the Tau-7 Junior because of the grip design. It looks like it would make two-hand hold practice possible. The weight listed for this model is not correct - it actually weights in at about 27 ounces, a little lighter than most of my real handguns. Price isn't too bad either. The reviews on this pistol are superb. I have looked at the IMH-46Ms. They also get good reviews, but the are huge (16 inches long) and very heavy for some folks. The grips are definitely designed for one-hand holds only.

Trouble is, the Tau-7 Junior is still priced double what a SW 586 is and I might just be satisfied with the 586. Wish more folks would post their experiences with the 586.
 
I used to practice a lot with a pelle pistol as a kid. IMHO, this did not translate to rimfire or centerfire pistols very much. The triggers and sight on low end air pistols tend to be so crude that theydidn't help me improve my pistol skills all that much. but they can be fun!!! just don't expect them to really fine tune your skills.
 
Good point (don't totally agree though), but I just flat like to shoot a lot. I have an advantage over some folks because I have a back-yard pistol/rifle range. I shoot a lot. But the weather does not always cooperate and sometimes I just don't feel like making a lot of noise - especially when I can hear kids/families enjoying the outdoors on the neighboring farms. Good neighbors, you know. But I still want to SHOOT.

I really enjoy shooting my Beeman R-7 .177 scoped rifle during these times and think a quality handgun is also in order. I really do feel shooting my scoped Beeman helps my real rifle shooting, just as I feel shooting my SW 41 .22 target pistol helps my .45 shooting. Shooting is shooting. It all contributes to good skills.

Did you read about the Japanese shooter who practiced almost entirely with air-soft pistols - then came to Columbia, Missouri to win the Bianchi Cup!? No doubt that by shooting the real stuff he would have been even better, but it sure helped develop his skills.

Anyway, I get enough practice with the real stuff. The air gun shooting is pleasurable enhancement for me. I want to do it with quality stuff.
 
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Ian,
I'd consider the 46M an entry level "adult" choice. In the old Soviet system lefties might have ended up in some Gulag until they learned to shoot "correctly" right-handed:D For lefty grip alternative, check into Vitarbo's on Neal Johnson's website. The Vitarbo grips for S&W41's and 1911's are put together by the folks in NM but the "exotic" pistols are crafted by Arnie himself. They are still pricey but not as much as Rink's or Nill's.
R.

ps.: use to be able to get a 46M for $285, I believe they've since gone up. Beyond the Baikal prices go up quickly to $500 and up for "competition" quality pieces. Pilkguns abd Larrysguns have some selection of used AP's you might consider. I prefer "single stroke pneumatic"...
 
From Bexar County, Texas, I can tell you that I've been shooting air pistols almost exclusively for the past two months. When it's not raining, the range is soaked!

My favorites are the Daisy 717, the Marksman 2004, the Webley Tempest and the Crosman 1377C. The worst trigger is on the Crosman.

I've got the Daisy 747 and don't like it as much as the 717. The Webley is a challenge because it's a springer, shoots to two different points of aim between one-handed and two-handed holds. It's also louder than the single pumps.

My favorites of the above pistols are the Marksman and the Daisy 717: accurate, repeatable velocities, single cocking strokes, use cheap pellets and still get decent groups at 10-15 yards. The Crosman is there if I need more power than will poke through both sides of an aluminum beverage can. The Marksman takes a bit more muscle than the Daisys. The Daisys are easier for my large fingers to load.

I've bought about $200.00 worth of pellets, targets and airgun accessories from Pyramid Air in the past month. They may not be the cheapest, but they're responsive to my orders and have some interesting discounts.

http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/model.pl?model_id=614
http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/model.pl?model_id=1241
http://www.pyramydair.com/p/crosman-1377-pump-pistol.shtml

I'm cheap. Don't want to buy CO2 cartridges or air pumps.
I'm lazy. Don't want to have to pump more than I shoot.

If you'd rather shoot than pump, get something that runs on gas you can load separately.

If I were starting over, I'd skip the 747, but might try the Webley Nemisis.
http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/model.pl?model_id=9
I'll pick one up used if I can find it at the right price.

Good luck! There are lots of wonderful choices out there.

fflincher
 
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A bit more on my 1377

a) I think the original version of the same pistol were stocked with genyoowhyun wood; current ones are a heavy plastic in a color that makes 'em look a bit like wood (from a fair distance). The plastic works fine for me -- what can I say, I've never been romantic about wood on rifles, tend to prefer black synthetic, personally.

b) On precision equipment vs. adult toy, I think the Crosman 1377 falls into a third category, which is "no-pretenses plinker" :) The trigger is nothing for the Olympic games, but it's far better than I remember on any of the handful of BB guns I ever fired as a kid. Lots of people use the same model for shooting at small pests, and claim good success at it, so the trigger can't be so bad that it prevents aiming with some precision.

c) It really does take some effort to pump -- a lot more than I'd anticipated. I could see hating it, if I had a sore elbow ;) However, that said, even 3 pumps (the recommended min.) is enough for all the power I need for basement plinking. And many people shoot it with a single pump -- one of my first three shots was one one shot, as an experiment, and it shot just fine.

d) It has a clever combination rear sight -- can be inverted for a peep sight, or left as delivered for a notch-and-post.

e) The prices are all over the place; while I paid just under $50 delivered, I found the same gun at prices close to $80 PLUS shipping (and, I guess, you could do all that and pay tax -- at a Gander Mountain location near home, they were charging full retail ...).

f) Here's a little article (about halfway down the linked page) that I think does a good job of describing the utility of the gun as experienced by one user (incl. winning a bet against a real competition gun):

http://home.att.net/~jjaxelrod/air.html

I only wish I had more chance to shoot mine -- must go home to use it, because the Big Brother that is the Philadelphia City Council doesn't trust adults, never mind children, with air guns.

timothy
 
Here's a little article (about halfway down the linked page) that I think does a good job of describing the utility of the gun as experienced by one user (incl. winning a bet against a real competition gun)

Great story on the Crossman--as I noted I've much enjoyed shooting the second hand one off my deck lately. I checked, it was made in 1995. I'm shooting at 4" diameter steel disks (lids from candy tins) hanging from barb wire fence at a distance well beyond target distance for air pistol (apx. 75 feet). In fact, it is proper target distance for slow fire match pistol-25M.

I would cautiously assert that the Crossman can bridge the gap. I would take the chance and buy one, new or used (if used, pump and listen--make sure it holds charge--it mostly will or won't---not much in between). If it doesn't work out as a target gun, it will be of use to you sometime--it has power to spare. It's made it thirty years (since 1977). The only better of the same stripe, is the Benjamin. I got the Cabela's catalog today--the Benjamin (since 1992) made by crossman to old specs, is 129.00. True not made by 'Benjamin' in Racine Wis. anymore--but made in America by a company that cares about quality and staying true to the brand.

I'm thinking about just buying a new one (for the kids, mind you) instead of fixing my old one just now. Except, this time, I'd get it in .22 cal not .177- more flexible.

Either of these two from Crossman would be fully U.S. manufactured, too.
 
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Another avenue to investigate is used match air pistols. You can find these through targettalk.org, yellowforum classifieds, and even gunbroker. Precharged pneumatic (PCP) pistols are favored nowadays, and the earlier generations of C02 and SSP pistols can often be found for very reasonable prices.
 
I'll second the Baikal IZH-46m

And I'll cast another vote for the "Izzy" . . . good for honing: target acquisition, sighting, breathing control, trigger mechanics, shooting stance . . . in other words PRACTICE -- and inexpensive practice at that! Left-hand walnut grips courtesy of BloodRed Bows in Texas . . . excellent accuracy (and hell on starlings. Mine happens to like Crosman Premier "Lights"). These are THE bargain of the airgun world.

Newgrips001.jpg
 
Thanks for the reminder - when I was surfing the net a year or so ago
looking for reviews of the S & W 617 I found a co. that makes a dead ringer
for it as an air pistol. I think I will revisit and find another one on the web
and get a proper bullet trap to hang targets from. My front yard is secluded by a hedge from the street and a 10 yards or so distance would be great practice for sight align./trigger control

As well as some Magpies that show up in the neighborhood

Don't Ask Don't tell.... nudge nudge wink wink
 
Re: the Baikal IZH-46m -- For me (cheap, student), $300 still seems a lot for an airgun, esp. since I've never fired one of those target-grade ones, with their seemingly oddball shapes, levers, wazoos, and doohickeys.

However, the more I read up on airguns, the more tempting it looks. (The Beeman P3, though far more conventional looking, also looks like a good basement plinker -- http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/model.pl?model_id=556)

Boy, I'm looking forward to living somewhere airguns are legal ;) (Philadelphia? Ha!)

timothy
 
oddball shapes, levers, wazoos, and doohickeys.

So homely that it grew on me. Single-stroke underlever cocking, no safety, breech opens upward (leaving breech unlatched until ready to shoot serves as my safety), 5-way adlustable trigger. Except for wood grips, all-metal construction & capable of microscopic groups. $276.00 currently from StraightShooters. Still a bargain, in my mind ($$ increased $30 since I bought mine 2 years ago). I had considered a CO2-powered air pistol, but these are greatly-affected by temperature extremes & are best used indoors in stable temps (velocity changes).
 
koja48 -- hey, that's the best price I've seen on them yet, actually: tempty tempty.

I sure like airguns to be hand-pumped -- even if they're cheap, I dislike needing to rely on a part (like the CO2 cartridges so many guns require) that runs down by design (not just through eventual wearing out, like all things eventually do).

And one thing in their favor (besides all the good things you name), guns of the space-ship-oddity design school like this one look much less scary to the type of people who find guns scary; it's easier to see that it's precision equipment rather than a "device made only for killing."

timothy
 
"I vote for the Beeman P3 and it's design knock-offs, the Marksman 2004 and also the Beeman P17 (I don't know how it differs from the P3 but it's only $35 at the Sportsman's Guide).

My Marksman 2004 has been a lot of fun and taken dozens of birds and rabbits. It is very accurate within it's range with consistent performance. I really don't think you can beat these without spending 3X as much. I'll probably order the P17 just for comparison."

I have the Beeman P-17 and from what I understand it is the same gun as the Marksman 2004. From what I have heard both of these guns are almost as good as the Beeman P-3 but for 1/3 the price. I have never seen a P-3 in person but for the $40 I spent on the Beeman P-17 (with red-dot sight included), I think it is a bargin. It is a very accurate gun and has decent power to boot. I have no doubt that I could take ground squarrels and house sparrows with it if I wanted to. I am not sure it is enough gun for rabbits and starlings but with a well placed head shot, it would probably work.

You could do a lot worse for $40.00 but if you wanted to spend more money, you could get into something a lot nicer. For $400.00 you could get the Beeman P-1 Magnum. It is the king of the air pistol world.
 
I have a pellet pistol and a air soft pistol. I thing the pellet pistol is a Mark 4, not sure. I meant to look at it before posting this and keep forgetting to. It is a single shot that you pump one time to shoot. It is very accurate. The airsoft I got from Pyramid Air and is a replica of a Beretta auto and has blow back. For me, just holding the sights on something really small and seeing how long I can hold it steady is a pretty good exercise. Dryfiring the air soft while doing this and working to keep the sights lined up through the trigger pull is a good exercise too. Now the Mark pellet gun is very accurate out to about 20 feet. (I mean pinpoint) But I can hit my mail box with it from around 50 yards. The airsoft is only good inside 10 feet. After that the bb goes flying up into the cosmos somewhere. But let me tell you what. I can shoot a #57 gravel up close all day long easy. And you know those carpenter bees that fly around and hover for a few seconds? I have shot a bunch of them out of the air. They come around the porch on my shop, and I see if I can get on them. They don't stay in one place long, so you have to be quick. You might think I am kidding but I am not. Give it a try, you might be surprised to find you hit one one day, and then you will be hooked on shooting those little buggers all the time. And if you can do a wing shot everytime, that would really be something! I shoot wasps and yellow jackets off the side of my building, and spiders too.

The first time I ever shot one of those bees pretty much surprised me. My wife and I had not been married long and were sitting outside in lawn chairs just relaxing. This carpenter bee kept coming around and hovering in front of us for minutes at a atime then fly off, then come back, on and on. I finally got aggravated with the thing and I was going to swat it with something, and it just came to my mind to try and shoot it. I didn't have any pellet guns at that time, so I got my .22 Remington bolt action rifle and came out. My wife thought I was nuts. (She was right.) Anyway, that bee came back and hovered in the same place. I put the sights on that baby and squeezed off a shot and the bee disapeared before our eyes! I went over and sure enough there was part of him laying there. Now that was great. I wanted to do it again, but I didn't want to be shooting that .22 around like that. I figured for that type of small game I better get something that I can shoot in any direction at anytime and not worry about taking out the neighbors picture window. So I got a bb gun, sighted it in up close, and went down to my dog kennel where lots of carpenter bees hung out as well as flies and started shooting. Yes, I even shot some flies too. They were landed, of course. It is a lot of fun. Like I said, just try it and see if you can do it. You will miss a lot, but when you take one out, you know you did something you can really brag about. I remember, a few days after I shot that first bee, my brother inlaw was bragging to my wife how he had slapped one of those carpenter bees down with his bare hand. She told him, "That isn't anything, Jeff shot one out of the air with his .22 rifle!" He was sort of embarrassed, but I LOVED IT!

Oh, just another little story, and amazing as it may sound, this is also the truth: I told my shooting buddy about killing bees with my pellet pistol and he had to one up me. The dirty dog made a little whip out of leather, and he practiced with that thing until he could sit on his porch and when a fly or anything else lands on the railing he can snap that whip and hit that little devil just about everytime!
 
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Check out Pilk Guns

Look at http://www.pilkguns.com and be prepared to be blown away! If you want precision airguns that will put a pellet through the same hole all day long, with a match trigger that will make you wet your pants, check them out. Steyr, morini, hammerli, pardini, and feinwerkbau, these are some of the house names. They aren't cheap, but they are the best of the best. Steyr even makes a semi-auto version (LP50) for shooting steel plates. You can also buy a 1911 style grip for the above pistol to "simulate" the grip on your favorite 1911 style pistol.

Jeff
 
I have recently become interested in backyard plinking with airguns and have purchased a few. One of the better deals out there (IMO) is the Beeman P17; I bought this one not long ago from www.midsouthshooterssupply.com for less than $40 SHIPPED. The trigger is unbelieveably sweet for such an inexpensive pistol.

Airgun-Pics008.jpg
 
I've got a few of these:
predom.JPG

It's a Polish version of the Walther LP53. If it looks familiar it's because the Walther is used in one of the posters for "From Russia with Love."

Very solid, feels like a real handgun rather than a pellet gun. And hard to beat for fifty bucks.
http://www.militarygunsupply.com/shop/item.asp?itemid=POLTARP
 
zoom6zoom do you know whether that supplier does an evaluation of these pistols?

I remember reading a few reviews on the yellowforum suggesting that some of these were really beat-up - not just the cosmetics, the seals and chambers were badly damaged. But then I think that CA was selling them for ~$25 w/ a minimum order of 3.
 
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