Thinking about branching out

[bikemutt]

I picked up a Savage 10FCPSR with 24" barrel, .308, recently. It's a tack driver. $630. SKU 22441.

https://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/10FCPSR

I've seen it for even less recently. They also sell a 20" variant if you don't want the longer barrel.

Others have stated the obvious pros and cons of .308 which I agree with. It's so easy and relatively affordable to reload for as well. Good luck with whatever you decide on.

 

[hdwhit]

Thanks to everyone who replied and gave me some good criteria to think about.

 

[jmr40]

Honestly, 243, 260, 6.5 Creedmoor, 7-08 or 308 would all do what you want. There is no reason to consider the long action 270 or 30-06 unless elk, moose, or large bear are commonly hunted. Since you have 223 I'd be tempted to pas on 243. Nothing wrong with 243, but I don't think there is enough gap between it and 223. I consider my 308 to be my big gun. In a lighter rifle recoil can be a concern for people not used to it. It would be a better option for deer and larger game. For deer I'd go with either 260 or 6.5 Creed. Either can be used on even larger game with careful bullet selection. Or you could just go 243 even with a 223. If you never plan to hunt game larger than deer it is all you need. There is a noticeable difference in recoil between the 24 and 26 calibers and the 7-08/308 cartridges.

Ammo for 223, 243, and 308 is easy to find and relatively cheap. The 6.5 Creed is coming on strong and I'm finding ammo for it just as available at good prices. The 260 and 7-08 while excellent rounds are much harder to find ammo for, and it costs more. Unless you re-load they are less desirable.

 

[BigBore44]

Ok so I've read all the posts. Almost all recommendations have good merit. But if you're just using this for deer out to 200 yards, and supporting your local guy means 30 cal, it seems that it only makes sense to base your choice if you want a long or short action rifle. In truth, if you take deer with the .223, you know shot placement. So no need to explain its importance. And with a .223 being a short action, it makes sense to stay with what you know. So....308.

 

[someguy2800]

Also as for recoil, if your handloading you can make whatever amount of recoil you want. You can take it from below 30-30 velocities to darn near 30-06 performance if you so choose.

 

[hdwhit]

BigBore44 wrote:
Almost all recommendations have good merit.

Yes. I am very gratified that pretty much everyone stuck to my request to not only give me their opinion but explain their reasons for it and respect the criteria I had set.

In truth, if you take deer with the .223, you know shot placement.

Yes. I do.

I was on the rifle team in college - but that was 40+ years ago and my vision and reflexes aren't quite the same.

In truth, most of the time in the deer camp was spent watching other people drink copious amounts of alcohol rather than harvesting any venison. Most of my distance shots were head shots on muskrats.

And with a .223 being a short action, it makes sense to stay with what you know. So....308.

That's a very good point.

Thank you.

 

[RPRNY]

Okay, okay, I've stayed quiet on it long enough.

What is this utter nonsense, as in not sensible, about long action vs short action? Did I miss the post where the OP said, "Oh, and BTW, I regularly travel to Norway to participate in Stangskyting competitions, so saving micro-seconds on bolt throw is critical."

No, I didn't. Why do the 308 fanboys have to be so chippy? Yes, the top end of the 308 is rather less than 30-06. Yes, the 30-06 will throw large chunks of metal better. Yes, the 30-06 has a long and illustrious military history in two of this nation's most iconic rifles. Yes, the 308's rather short and ignominious career in that regard could be misconstrued as rather ignoble by comparison. But leaving those admittedly rather glaringly negative comparisons aside, let's focus on its positives. It's short. And fat. And only middle aged. See. Chicks dig that, right?

Ok, satire over,. But really? Long action. Sad, sad, sad. Talk about clutching at straws...

 

[MTMilitiaman]

.30-06 is an American icon and a true classic. There will be components and data available for the 06 for as long as the Stars and Stripes exist, and it can do just about anything you need a rifle to do on this continent out considerably farther than you need it to. I've been shooting this cartridge since I was about twelve years old. Back then I was much smaller and had more respect for the recoil it provided. Still has about as much as I want to deal with for prolonged time periods, but not so much that just about anybody shouldn't be able to cope.

.270 was my first deer rifle and still holds a special place in my heart. Can do just about anything the 06 can with marginally less recoil and potentially flatter trajectory, if you ever need to go beyond 200 yards. Not as many component options as .30-06.

.308 is quickly becoming my favorite out of the bunch. Near identical performance to the 06 in most applications and slightly less recoil, by the numbers. Plenty of data and components, almost overwhelming, in fact. Accurate and efficient, versatile and effective, and readily available in almost any guise.

I vote .308, but as mentioned, all the cartridges you mentioned will be functionally almost identical to well beyond the range limitations you have set. None of your choices qualify as intermediate powered, like the small bore cartridges you are apparently used to. You didn't mention how much experience you have beyond what you listed and how well you deal with recoil. In a light rifle, you may find the 06 to be a little rude. Have you considered the .243 Winchester? The .300 Savage (does Savage even offer a .300 Savage anymore)?

What is this utter nonsense, as in not sensible, about long action vs short action? Did I miss the post where the OP said, "Oh, and BTW, I regularly travel to Norway to participate in Stangskyting competitions, so saving micro-seconds on bolt throw is critical."

Funny. But on that note:

No, I didn't. Why do the 308 fanboys have to be so chippy? Yes, the top end of the 308 is rather less than 30-06. Yes, the 30-06 will throw large chunks of metal better.

While we're grasping at straws, the OP never said he was going to Norway to hunt moose, where the ability to shoot a high sectional density, heavy for caliber bullet 4% faster might come in handy. A good argument could be made that while neither advantage is earth shattering, the ability to find the .308 in lighter, more compact and responsive rifle, and it's more efficient case's ability to achieve better performance from shorter barrels is more useful for the rifle's intended purpose than a supposed ballistic advantage the 06 provides.

 

[Kendal Black]

The calibers I am considering are the .270, 7mm-08, 30-06 and .308.

All of those are excellent. I have no rational grounds to argue against any of them, so do as you like or toss two coins.

I slightly favor the .308 because of the availability nearly everywhere of ammo and components and because of decades of load development of for all kinds of purposes, from thousand yard accuracy to reduced recoil to farm pest control.

 

[RPRNY]

The straw clutching to keep chips from falling off sloping shoulders goes on.

But yes, admittedly, those willowy short action AR-10s, graceful wands that they are, and 4lbs 308 bolt guns that deliver 30-06 performance from a 16" barrel with no more recoil than a 22 WRM (and physics be damned), never mind the fire hazard or your hearing, are definitely far and away the best.

I don't understand the 308 inferiority complex. I have both and like both. I can recommend either without regard to the other.

 

[BigBore44]

The straw clutching to keep chips from falling off sloping shoulders goes on.

But yes, admittedly, those willowy short action AR-10s, graceful wands that they are, and 4lbs 308 bolt guns that deliver 30-06 performance from a 16" barrel with no more recoil than a 22 WRM (and physics be damned), never mind the fire hazard or your hearing, are definitely far and away the best.

I don't understand the 308 inferiority complex. I have both and like both. I can recommend either without regard to the other.

Wow RPRNY. You sound a little frustrated. Not like you. I was only giving my OPINION with logic based on the OP's past history. He has a history with short actions, and his LGS stocks .30 cal. bullets. I think, given the fact I have a Garand, 03A3, M1A, CZ Mannlicher in 308, and M70 CSLT in '06, and an AR-10 all of which I load for, that I'm a "fanboy" of both. Now calm just a little. We're only giving friendly, and for the most part, intuitive opinions. But, if you can find me that 308 that recoils like a 22WMR, we could do some trading. I've got some ocean front property in Arizona I'm looking to unload.

 

[RPRNY]

What cal bullets does the 30-06 use again?

So the 1/2" bolt throw is what swings it? I guess I can't see how the OP will be dumbstruck when faced with that extra 1 /2" . Must be the frustration blinding me.

Seriously, short action vs standard action is a fatuous argument.

Straws, slipping away.

 

[someguy2800]

For what its worth, I don't care if a gun has a long or short action. I don't care if it can shoot 220 grain 30 caliber bullets. I don't care if a cartridge is short and fat or long and skinny. I don't care if its a 110 years old cartridge or 60. I don't care what factory ammo is available. I don't care if there is another cartridge that goes 150 fps faster than one I like. I like 308's. I like 30/06. If I was buying a savage axis I would want it in a 308. If I was buying a model 70 super grade I would want it in a 30/06. Some things just go well together.

 

[cdb1]

I'm in the camp with RPRNY. I could care less whether a cartridge is long or short action. I also don't get the .308 mystique. I also don't think having experience with short action cartridges makes a difference. There are plenty of components available for 30-06 and plenty of factory ammo choices. I also believe a 30-06 is more versatile than a .308. If 30-06 recoil bothers you then I think there's a good chance .308 recoil will bother you too.

In my neck of the woods a .243 is plenty for deer so both cartridges are somewhat overkill if elk, moose and brown bear aren't on the menu. 7mm-08 ammo is available in copious amounts online so if you want one availability isn't an issue either. If we all were pragmatic we could do just fine with a .22LR and any of the cartridges under consideration for hunting all North American game except for the big bears.

 

[HexHead]

Can't your local gun shop order you something other than Savage?

 

[Orcon]

I don't understand the 308 inferiority complex. I have both and like both. I can recommend either without regard to the other.

I don't understand why you're letting this upset you so. Nearly every person who recommended the 308 also gave the 30-06 the nod.

 

[Stevenvalleyky]

I only mentioned long action and short action because the long actions obviously have longer cases than the short action cartridges. That longer case allows more powder, hence more recoil. Since he is keeping his range under 200 yards, there is absolutely no benefit for that increased recoil. Plus he reloads. That extra 5 grains of powder for the 30-06 vs the same powder in a 308 adds up if you shoot alot. Not at all hating on long action cartridges, they definetely have a purpose, just not in this case.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

What cal bullets does the 30-06 use again?

So the 1/2" bolt throw is what swings it? I guess I can't see how the OP will be dumbstruck when faced with that extra 1 /2" . Must be the frustration blinding me.

Seriously, short action vs standard action is a fatuous argument.

Straws, slipping away.

Okay, speaking of inferiority complex. Wow, guy.

People have listed all sorts of reasons to prefer the .308 over the .30-06 and few of them have defamed your precious 'ought-six' in the process. There are plenty of reasons to make room in a properly stocked safe for both but if limited to one, and if ranges are limited to 200 yards or less, and the largest quarry will be deer, the advantages the .30-06 seem of less utility than those of the .308. The main person bringing up action length is you. Plenty of other reasons have been given, but regarding action length, there is more to it than the time it takes to cycle the bolt. The OP may opt for a lightweight mountain rifle or scout rifle, where the couple ounces of weight savings may be advantageous.

As for fatuous arguments, the ballistic superiority of the .30-06, yeah I am going there. What, like a 100 to 150 fps from a bullet of 180 gr or more and a barrel of 22 inches or more? Really? What's that worth, bought a quarter MOA of drop at a quarter mile with most hunting bullets? In what circumstance to you think anything hit with either would ever be able to tell the difference? Lay of the Kool Aid..

 

[RPRNY]

Sorry to hurt your feelings.

 

[someguy2800]

This is getting really silly but a 30-30 is not bad because of the 300 savage, and a 300 savage is not bad because of the 308, and a 308 is not bad because of a 30-06, and a 30-06 is not bad because of a 300 win mag, and a 300 win mag is not bad because of the 300 weatherby, and a 300 weatherby is not bad because of a 30-378. I still like the 30-30 myself.

 

[Davek1977]

under 200 yards, i see no practical advantage of a 30-06 over a.308, especially on deer sized game under 200 yards. the .308 can certainly do that, and the 7mm-8 as well. the 30-06 simply adds more muzzle blast, more recoil, and slightly more powder into the the equation, none of which are an advantage here. for the situations/useage you describe, i think either the .308 or 7mm-08 would be the best choice, as they are short action calibers, have less recoil, and are typically available in ''handier'' rifles than the 06 and its long action, and the same can be said of the .270 as well. there
s no need for a super flat trajectory or long range accuracy....though the 7/08 and 308 typically shoot very well......for killing deer or paper at 2oo yards or less. Any of the calibers will do it, the 7/08 shooting a bit flatter than the .308, with less recoil than than the other three calibers. That would be my choice out of the given calibers....that said, MY choice for similiar, though longer distance shooting, was a Savage in 6.5 creedmoor. i found it to be best suited for my needs as a mule deer rifle for ranges of 25 yards to 500 yards...shooters flatter and retains more energy at range than either the .308 or 7/o8, still utoilizing the short actoin

 

[FL-NC]

They are all excellent and very suitable choices for the task. The 308 would be my choice simply because I like the bullet selection in 30 caliber, brass is the most plentiful and cheap among them, and its very pleasant and efficient to shoot. Before you pick one of them take a look at what bullets you are able to buy locally. I am very limited on bullet and powder selection so I tend to factor that into my decisions.

What he said.

 

[hdwhit]

HexHead wrote:
Can't your local gun shop order you something other than Savage?

Yes, he probably can. But, this is the lone gun shop/general store in the little town I will retire to in a few months and I need to re-establish myself there after a 40 year absence. The distributor that sells to the gun shop pushes Savage, so that's what he pushes. Since I know from my .223 Axis that the Savage is a perfectly servicable rifle, I'm going to go along and not make unnecessary waves. It is a case where the perception of my behavior trumps technical considerations.

 

[hdwhit]

To answer a question that has come up and which I should have probably anticipated, I do have experience with both 30-06 and 308. I don't find either near as pleasant to shoot as my various .223s, but this is a rifle that will be shot when it is sighted in, annually when I make sure I still remember how to shoot it and then carted to/from a deer camp. I can handle shooting it 20 to 40 rounds a year. Besides, if past history is any indication, more 12-packs will be killed than deer.

 

[hdwhit]

Once again, I want to thank everyone for their input. It has really been helpful in framing the parameters of the decision. Of couse, my circumstances (both those imposed on me and those I choose to accept) limit my decision somewhat and I appreciate everyone who recognized that.