Thinking about building an AR

[jefnvk]

OK, I have gotten to the point where I am going to do it. It is more than likely going to be a 20" (told you I'd change), to supplement my increasingly growing collection of US Service rifles. After playing with some carbines and rifles, I decided I much prefered the rifle.

Can anyone give me some other Upper/kits makers, or are the ones above pretty much it?

Right now, I see:
Model 1 Sales (somewhat iffy quality, but more on the good side than bad)
M-A (stay away)
CMMG Inc (link doesn't work)
LMT (any link? Heard that they are a gov't contractor?)

And the regulars DPMS, Colt (any kits at all?), Armalite and Bushmaster.

I was also looking at Fulton Armory, are they any good? I really like the Vietnam-style upper, although I was told the 1-12 is limited to 55, so that is probably out. Anywhere else I can find the Vietnam-style upper, but with faster twist?

Does DPMS make pre-assembled kits? I see they have kits, but the uppers are not assembled, and that is not something I want to jump into yet.

Or even better, does the gov't sell off surplus M16 parts? It would just be fantastic if I could get something built up prety much on surplus US parts.

 

[El Rojo]

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I got both of my uppers for cheap on AR15.com. Bushmaster uppers complete with bolt, bolt carrier, and charging handles. I have heard many a person say to stay away from Model 1 and M-A. If you are on a budget, think about the used uppers on AR15.com. I have had two successful purchases out of two on there for complete Bushmaster uppers.

 

[ny32182]

I don't think LMT makes anything longer than 16", so that is probably out. Personally I would probably go with Bushmaster for your intended rifle.

They may or may not be able to build you an A1 (except for the twist) upper. Call them and ask.

 

[Beren]

Assembling the lower is simple. I did mine with a spare AR-15 firing pin, a couple of allen wrenches, some grease, a piece of cardboard (scratch shield!) and a spare weight from my weight bench (makeshift plastic hammer.)

Stag Arms is good stuff. If you don't want to fuss with assembling them, you can also purchase them with all lower parts installed, or all lower parts and buttstock.

http://www.eaglefirearms.net/stag_arms.htm

A used upper from the Equipment Exchange on AR15.com is a good place to start. I'm an LMT groupie, but if you want new and cheap, and you'll settle for 4140 steel with a 1/9 twist, check out the current Stag/CMT uppers.

 

[jefnvk]

I would love to do everything myself, I just don't want to mess with the barreling and headspacing my first time through. Don't mind putting together the lower, though.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

I just don't want to mess with the barreling and headspacing my first time through.

Headspacing is set by the manufacturer when they set the barrel extension on the barrel. As long as both bolt and barrel are in the correct dimensions, your headspace will be fine. However, I like to check that anyway since some manufacturers seem to regard their customers as the first line in quality control.

It will be hard to go wrong with any of the places you mentioned. I've seen everyone of the places you mention put out rifles I consider unacceptable; but most of the time even the lower end places do it right. Just be warned that there are big backlogs everywhere.

LMT is a government contractor along with Colt. You can find LMT parts at MSTN or DSA Arms (who retails complete LMT rifles).

I just ordered a barrel from CMMG (indirectly through an FFL) and I'll let you know how it goes when it gets here. So far I've been pleased with the attention devoted to customer service by CMMG, even though I am not techincally their direct customer.

 

[jefnvk]

I may be crazy here, but over on AR15 I found a link to Sarco, who is selling early Colt M16 kits with all the parts except the lower reciever and auto sear. Anyone have experience with them? It would simply be awesome if I could put together a Vietnam piece, especially with surplus parts.

 

[zougou]

All the parts, including the full-auto bolt carrier?

My first AR was an Olympic Arms parts kit. I used a Rock River arms lower.

If I were to do it again (actually I have, but that's besides the point) I'd go with something prebuilt. I don't think I saved much money building it myself.

You could get the prebuilt lower and get the upper seperately I suppose.

My $0.02.

 

[ny32182]

My LMT carbine has a full auto bolt carrier, but all the semi-auto trigger parts. As long as there is no autosear or lower drilled for one, and it can't shoot full auto, I wouldn't worry about it. I've never heard of actual surplus trigger groups being sold, though... most people tend to stay away from the full auto hammer, selector, disconnector, etc.

I also built one myself, and saved absolutely no money in the process.

 

[jefnvk]

Says everything but the lower and the auto sear. I was under the impression that the auto sear was the major link, that the rest of the parts could be used interchangeably.

I guess if it is a problem, I can get a lower parts kit.

And the only thing I could find for what I am going to build it for was the Olympic plinker, and I don't really want a 16" anymore. But I really, really want the Vietnam style. Total should be under five and a half, unless I have to get a new parts kit.

 

[TC66]

1. 5.56 or .223? I know one can shoot both, but which one?

A1. You can shoot 5.56 and .223 in the 5.56 chamber. Reason you do not want to shoot 5.56 in a .223 chamber is the throat is much shorter and you will build up a lot more pressure.

2. Cast or Forged receiver? Is there any real flaws or problems with cast?

A2. Go with forged. Cast has more flexibility in it and if you mix them the recoil can cause damage over a period of time. One part flexes more than the other eventually leading to cracks.

3. What twist rate would be advisible? How is changing that going to have an effect on shooting?

A3. 1/9 twist is probably the most versatile of the twists but it has its limits as to what weight bullet you can shoot. I believe 69 Grain is as heavy as you would be able to go in a 1/9.

4. What is the accuracy going to be between a 11.5"/5.5"FH, 16" barrel, and 20"? 99% of time I'm under 200 yards, and probably 95% within 100.

A4. I am getting 1/2 groups out of my 16 inch barrel but it is a Match Grade Bull Barrel

5. Anyone have anything good or bad to say about model1sales.com or m-aparts.com?

A5. Don't know of them but if you contact me I can give you some suggestions if you would like.

6. Difference between an A1/A2 flashhider?

A6. I honestly would do an 11 degree crown on the barrel and skip the flash suppressor.


Here are a couple I built.

Started with Olympic Forged Uppers and Lowers, RRA National Match 2 stage triggers, Ace Skeleton Stocks, Hogue Pistol Grips, Badger Ordinance Tactical Latches, 16 inch Chrome Moly Match Barrel (1/9 twist) on one and 24 inch Stainless Ultra Match barrel (1/8 twist) on the other. Free floated the barrels. Harris bipods, Bushnell Elite 3200 Mil-Dot scopes. Refinished both myself with Flat Black Norrel Moly Resin finish.

 

[jefnvk]

Pics don't work

 

[NMshooter]

Biggest reason to build your own is because you want something not offered by any manufacturer.

Depending on the source for the parts you may not save any money over a factory rifle.

It is fun, though.

 

[Houndawg]

Just like NMshooter said. You can put the parts you want on it. You might not save money, but you get what you want and you have fun doing it.

55 grain isn't the lowest you can go with a 1/7 barrel. You can shoot pretty much anything through it up to 80 grains. If you buy ammo at Wally World you probably won't be getting anything but 55. The only problems you might encounter with light bullets is jacket separation. It's not very common though.

Building an upper is very easy. You just need the wrench or armorers tool to torque the barrel nut, plus one of the many types of receiver blocks on the market. You can probably find somebody selling used ones on AR15.com or Ebay.

 

[jefnvk]

55 grain isn't the lowest you can go with a 1/7 barrel

I was looking at the Vietnam style uppers, with a 1-12" twist rate. Sarco has original Colt M16 (slickside, no FA) parts kits in new condition for $425, and they will swap the auto parts out with semi parts to make it legal. Right now, I am thinking about doing this. I've been told I might as well pay that for a new/slightly used Colt, rather than geting a Model 1 or MA kit.

All I have to do is to throw on a lower, so for about $100, the entire thing is much cheaper than any AR around here (start at about $700+).

One of these days when I get more ambitious, I'll build one up from parts completely. But for now, a complete upper will make me happy

 

[ny32182]

Be aware (if you are not already) that 55gr is typically the heaviest you can go with a 1:12 barrel.

Also, if you are looking to do a Vietnam-authentic look, there were changes made in the lower as well. No "fence" around the mag catch, etc. I don't recall when each individual change was made, but if you want the look from a very specific time period, you might want to research that. Good luck.

 

[zougou]

Good luck with your build.

You may be heading down the path to BRD (Black Rifle Disease).

 

[jefnvk]

You may be heading down the path to BRD (Black Rifle Disease).

It'll go well with the Garanditis

ttbadboy, not looking exactly for a specific time period, just want a represational piece to go with my US Service rifle collection. The kits they have I'm told are the original XM16 kits (not A1, etc), three prong flash hider, some non-chromed barrels (I'll ask not to get one), which were ordered by the Air Force. They are supposedly some of the earliest ones. They are here, at the bottom of the page: http://www.sarcoinc.com/m16.html

I'll let you all know how it comes out, but unfortunately it'll be about two months before I get home to finish it (somehow, no matter how guin friendly my college is, I doubt they would appreciate me assembling an ARR in my dorm room)

 

[BryanP]

jefnvk,

First of all, if I can build a lower anyone can.

I bought the AR-15 guides off of the Fulton Armory web site (Complete Owner's Guide and the Guide to Building). After building the lower according to the instructions I bought a (mostly) Bushmaster upper off of a guy in the Equipment Exchange on ar15.com. Then I bought a Bolt, Bolt Carrier & Charging Handle from someother web site I'm blanking on right now. It's a serious FrankenAR in that it has parts from DPMS, Bushmaster, Rock River Arms and Century. Despite that it functions beautifully. It's not that difficult, really.

 

[ny32182]

I'll let you all know how it comes out, but unfortunately it'll be about two months before I get home to finish it (somehow, no matter how guin friendly my college is, I doubt they would appreciate me assembling an ARR in my dorm room)

I have that same problem, so I moved off campus after freshman year.

 

[jefnvk]

The lower I have no problems with. It seems like a straight forward process.

I just don't want to mess with assembling an upper on my first AR. After that, when I have at least one functioning AR, I might start playing around, see what I can really come up with.