Advice pls: A2 vs others...1st AR

[D.B. Cooper]

So I've been two years messing around with this. I bought a stripped lower right before the last presidential election. I have all the parts to complete it. My original intent was to build a standard A2 rifle w/20" bbl and full stock. (What I had in the Army 1994).

Now that I'm ready to buy the upper, I don't know. It's nearly impossible to find A2 parts/uppers. (Fixed carry handle, A2 feed ramps, etc.) I already gave up on the 1:7 twist barrel.

But now I'm learning that it's also impossible to find an A2 upper with anything other than an HBAR barrel. That means 8+ pounds total rifle weight, compared to 7 or 7.5 in a government bbl. So now I'm back to hem-hawing around between owning an A2, an A1, or something else. I'm switching from an M1 Garand in part because it's nearly 10 lbs. (plus the ammo is insanely heavy)

My planned use for the AR is that it will likely sit in a safe until I need it. (And THR doesn't let us discuss reasons why I would need it, so we'll just leave that there.) But if I ever need it, I'm not sure I would trade the Garand for a modest 1.5-2 lb weight savings. (Which is odd for me to say because, for backpacking trips, I would trade off to save 2 lbs in an instant.)

What are your thoughts on this? Should I just "suck it up buttercup" and stick to my original plan? Should I go down the A1 route (6.5 lbs is more my liking, but I hate that rear sight.) Or go a different path? (I know nothing about the newer M4 and carbine type ARs as those were adopted looooong after I left the service.) The A2 is the only thing I have any actual connection with.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

You know, just running some numbers, M1 ammo is .9 oz/rd and AR ammo is .4 oz per round. Maybe I should just shut up and count my weight savings there rather than on the rifle.

 

[LoonWulf]

You may want to handle a "carbine" type rifle if you can. Pretty much every upper ive built besides my 6.5s and .458 has been a 16" pencil, hbar, or m4 profile upper. I recently bought a PSA flat top rifle upper, and i find the 20" gov profile barrel to be less agile then even the heavier hbar 16" uppers ive built. For a "working" gun i think the shorter barrels make for much better handling.

My rifles mostly just a range toy tho so the extra length and weight (compared to most 16" guns) isnt an issue, and having the extra 4" does make it a little less blasty.

If you really want an A2 style upper youll have to build it. Psa does offer an A4? (I think thwts what they are called) style upper, to which u could add a carry handle sight assembly. That would probably be closest over the counter.
Thats what I bought.....

 

[Demi-human]

Do you really need the handle? When I'm hiking about I like my hands open. If there was imminent need for the tool I would want it in ready to use position. There are also rail attaching handles too.

 

[WestKentucky]

Buy the closest flat top upper to what you want, then add a detachable a2 style sight. Yes its hard to find the parts, that’s why my pistol is easily my most expensive AR. The uppers are 125+ but at least pinned front sight towers are still fairly common

 

[Elkins45]

The flat top upper has seemingly pushed the original carry handle upper to the brink of extinction. I think you might be able to find one if Brownell’s starts selling parts for their retro line, but I expect you will pay a premium. You may have to go with a detachable unless you just get lucky and find one.

 

[Hokie_PhD]

My first AR was one with a carry handle. For some reason I liked the looks. I had to sell it when things got tough. My second was a flat top. I’ve since grown to think the carry handle looks dated.

Tastes change. I think the suggestion to get a flat top and detachable handle makes the most sense.

FYI the handle is ok, but as a functional tool not needed nor missed.

 

[MistWolf]

Brownell's has what you want.
https://www.brownells.com/rifle-par...-15-stripped-a2-upper-receiver-prod17601.aspx
https://www.brownells.com/rifle-par...15-m16-5-56-a2-barrel-assembly-prod42028.aspx
https://www.brownells.com/rifle-par...0-a2-rifle-barrel-1-7-assembly-prod99226.aspx
A1 1/7 barrel: https://www.brownells.com/rifle-par...0-a1-rifle-barrel-1-7-stripped-prod97908.aspx

 

[D.B. Cooper]

Brownell's has what you want.
https://www.brownells.com/rifle-par...-15-stripped-a2-upper-receiver-prod17601.aspx
https://www.brownells.com/rifle-par...15-m16-5-56-a2-barrel-assembly-prod42028.aspx
https://www.brownells.com/rifle-par...0-a2-rifle-barrel-1-7-assembly-prod99226.aspx
A1 1/7 barrel: https://www.brownells.com/rifle-par...0-a1-rifle-barrel-1-7-stripped-prod97908.aspx

As I understand it, buying a stripped upper will require setting the correct headspace, which is something I have neither the skill set nor tools for, so that adds the expense of a trip to a gunsmith.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

At this point, I'm more concerned about the barrel than the carry handle and the way in which the barrel adds to the overall weight of the rifle.

 

[BSA1]

As I understand it, buying a stripped upper will require setting the correct headspace, which is something I have neither the skill set nor tools for, so that adds the expense of a trip to a gunsmith.

I didn't do that on one of my builds and the gun functions just fine and accurate to boot. Many of the videos on youtube do not show checking the headspace including the how to videos made by Brownells.

 

[kwg020]

Here you go. Check out these guys.
http://shop.ar15sport.ihoststores.com/productinfo_v3.aspx?productid=UPPER-556-A217

 

[MistWolf]

As I understand it, buying a stripped upper will require setting the correct headspace, which is something I have neither the skill set nor tools for, so that adds the expense of a trip to a gunsmith.

Barrel assemblies and bolts are already headspaced for you. All you have to do is install the barrel and bolt carrier group into your upper and it's ready to go. You will verify headpspace at the range when you chamber the first round.

 

[BSA1]

I did not check the headspace on my last upper and the gun functions fine.

Most of the how to videos on youtube do not require special tools or needing a gunsmith to check the headspace including this one from Brownells;

 

[mjsdwash]

I have what your describing, and its a whole lot easier to shoot than any of the carbines, and the sights are better than anything removable. I likewise had a hard time getting it, because at the time the industry was still saying anything that was lighter than "hbar" was crap, and would warp after five rounds. But, how do you feel about building it? An A2 upper costs about $200 for the parts, and can be found https://www.midwayusa.com/product/100333204/dpms-upper-receiver-stripped-ar-15-a2-matte ------------ and this (out of stock, but still produced) https://www.midwayusa.com/product/124132/dpms-upper-receiver-parts-kit-ar-15-a2-matte, and A2 Gov barrels are easy enough to find. The reviews on midway talk about missing parts, and I can confirm that, mine was missing 4 parts, but midway replaced them free, no questions. Takes about an hour to put together the A2 upper, with a $13 punch set from home depot, and a hammer. Barreling requires a vise block and barrel wrench.

 

[mjsdwash]

good quality barrels have the barrel extension set for headspace and bolts are all withing a range to to meet with the barrel extension. As long as the extension is installed as the overwhelming majority are, you should be in the safe range. I have never seen an AR barrel that was not headspaced, unless you looked for it, and it was clearly indicated. If you can see threads on the barrel's rear, it will need to be headspaced. Threads on the front of course are normal

 

[D.B. Cooper]

Here you go. Check out these guys.
http://shop.ar15sport.ihoststores.com/productinfo_v3.aspx?productid=UPPER-556-A217

Yeah! I have been looking at that. In fact I started a thread about those guys a few days back, but didn't get any response. I was being cautious as I had never heard of them (as compared to Fulton Armory, Brownell's, etc.), so not sure about quality.

Funny thing is...those were in stock until two days ago.

 

[Jackal]

You need to shop around more. Here are a few to get you started...
http://palmettostatearmory.com/
http://www.primaryarms.com/
https://www.aimsurplus.com/
http://www.schuylerarmsco.com/
https://www.reddit.com/r/gundeals/new/
https://gun.deals/

 

[FL-NC]

Build a carbine. Nothing says it has to have a flat top upper- you can use the A2 setup with a carbine barrel. The M727 we had prior to the M4 was just that. It will be even lighter, more compact, and easier to fit in your safe.

 

[Charlie98]

I've done a number of upper builds, there are several ways around it.

After I got out of the Army, I bought what was, essentially, a copy of my A1... but new and improved... I got an H-Bar. It's a fantastic rifle, and the barrel weight doesn't really bother me... but I'm not carrying it on a 30-mile road march, either. The one negative... that fixed carry handle.

My 1st AR build was a lightweight carbine on a RRA flattop upper, I was trying to get it at just 6#, I came pretty close. Now, here's the kicker... I don't use optics, I like peeps, so it got a good set of iron flipups... but I like the option available with the flattop. It is also a mid-length (gas system) 16" barrel. Here it is next to my H-Bar...



The compact and lightweight carbine makes the H-bar feel like a boat oar... seriously. Can I tell the difference shooting? Not really, at shots under 150M or so, I would pick either or. If I'm shooting off the bench, I'd take the H-Bar everyday, and twice on Sunday. If I'm putting it at the back of the safe for That Purpose, I'll take the carbine.

The biggest question is... do you want to put any sort of optic on it, or have the eventual ability to do so? Beyond that, pick your barrel length, pick your gas system length, pick your barrel contour... everything else is, largely, the same.

 

[SSN Vet]

FWIW, I think buying an A2 upper for ones first AR is a good idea and that's exactly what I did, as in my mind, the AR is a marksman's rifle and I wanted to learn to shoot it with iron sights.

So I built a 16" middy with an A2 upper and HBAR and it's a great shooting gun, and it has left me no desire to change it. The barrel is a 1:9 twist and it has no problem stabilizing the 69 gr. SMK.

You could always get an A3 upper with the removable carry handle, you just have to make sure you have a front sight that is the correct height (marked 'F') and you'd wind up with pretty much the same rig.... and have the flexibility to put an optic on it later if you wanted.

some random thoughts on the topic:
>But shooting the AR with iron sights is good fun, good practice, and gives you (IMO) a very suitable SD weapon.
>1:7 twist barrels are really only needed for bullets >70 gr. If you really want to shoot >500yd (and have a place to do so) and want to carry lethal energy out that far (as opposed to poking holes in paper) you'll probably want a bull barrel and a serious optic.
>you will likely find that you (just like most AR owners) shoot 55 gr the vast majority of the time. 1:7 barrels can over rotate 55 gr. pills.
>as pencil barrels heat up, their groups open up.
>The good optics are really expensive... likely more than the price of the rifle itself.
>My understanding is that the mil. profile barrels have more to do with grenade launcher and compatibility than they do weight reduction.

 

[MistWolf]

>you will likely find that you (just like most AR owners) shoot 55 gr the vast majority of the time. 1:7 barrels can over rotate 55 gr. pills.

No, it does not. 55 gr bullets will shoot as precise from a 1:7 as they do a 1:9. What a 1:7 twist gives the shooter is a wider choice of ammo and greater bullet stability. That doesn't mean the 1:9 twist is junk. It just means that, for shooting the average 5.56/223 bullet, the 1:7 twist is cheap insurance.

>as pencil barrels heat up, their groups open up.

That depends on the barrel. However, with blaster ammo, the shooter isn't likely to notice the difference, if any.

 

[WrongHanded]

I once had a RRA A2 with a 20" barrel (possibly 22"). When using the carry handle, it didn't balance well at all. I liked the concept but a 16" barrel would have been better. The iron sights were very nice though.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

Here you go. Check out these guys.
http://shop.ar15sport.ihoststores.com/productinfo_v3.aspx?productid=UPPER-556-A217

So...these guys have those in stock. They said a completed rifle with that upper should come in just under 7 lbs.

The ONLY thing I don't like is they use M4 feed ramp/barrel extensions. Which is probably a pretty OCD thing for me to focus on, but if building a GI A2 rifle...I would think you'd want A2 ramps. I know both will work, not sure if I worry about it.

They're significantly cheaper than Fulton Armory.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

The biggest question is... do you want to put any sort of optic on it, or have the eventual ability to do so?

I really don't. I've always been an iron sight guy. (Comes from having shot Service Rifle and High power - and that's probably the other think I might do with this gun.)

That said. My eyes aren't as young as they are, and I now wear prescription safety glasses in order to have sharp focus of the edge of the black beyond 100 yards. Without them, I can't find a reference (edge of the black) to put my front sight post.