Thinking of removing your side-plate? Don't!

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I shined up the innards on an S&W 642 snubby with no problems. I did the same to an S&W 60-4 revolver. But the second time I went into the revolver I lost the return spring and had to order a new set from Wolff's. You're warnings are well received. Thanks.
 
I have a model 15-4 (1980's era) and a spring kit for it. I haven't taken the side plate off yet; kind of been afraid to. The sear spring in one this old is captured so it can't fly away, right? Also, do I remove the main spring before I take the side plate off, or just loosen the strain screw first to take *most* of the tension off.
 
The Colt Trooper Mk III and S&W Model 10 are real pains in the butt to replace the side plate. The Trooper's transfer bar is the worst to keep in place while to tap the plate back on (they are a really tight fit). The S&W's pawl can be a real bear.

Revolvers can be like messing with the mainspring on a clock. One wrong move and a grenade of parts goes off!

Rugers sure are nice in this regard.
 
It isn't a big deal, it is a simple mechanism with just a handful of parts.
My view is that you should be able to detail strip, diagnose and replace parts as needed on any weapon you own. This doesn't mean you do it all the time, nor does it mean you start doing it without enough knowledge.

It isn't like rebuilding a transmission or taking your watch apart, it is fairly simple and in most cases just requires a very few proper tools and attention to detail.
 
rc, the mallet I used is probably more plastic than rubber--it's pretty hard, but looks like rubber. A soft, truly rubbery one would never get it done.
 
Oh, I think folks should be able to detail strip. It's just going to take a while getting it completely back together. It is more than just attention to detail. That gets the parts together. But sometimes you need four hands just to hold everything just right before assembling.
 
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Today it’s less important then it used to be because side plates are supposed to be interchangeable between frames. But there was a time when they were so closely hand fitted to a particular frame (and serial numbered to it) that sometimes you couldn’t see the joint between the frame and plate with the naked eye. Over time repeated removal and reassembling the plate can degrade this precision fit, and it is for that reason these parts should not be separated unless absolutely necessary. My observation applies to both Colt’s and Smith & Wesson’s, and especially those made before and shortly after World War Two.

One of my favored methods for dissolving gunk and internal fouling in one of these revolvers is to take a disposable meatloaf pan and fill it with enough Marvel Mystery Oil, which is normally used as an automotive crankcase and gasoline additive, to cover whatever handgun I’m working with. The oil, which is apparently similar to brake/transmission fluid, can be purchased at most automotive supply departments of big-box stores or from independent retailers.

Take the revolver and remove the stocks, then cock the hammer (if it has a single-action option). Immerse the gun in the oil bath, and be sure there is something under the pan because the oil will literally go up the sides and out of the pan if it can. Covering the pan with kitchen wrap is not a bad idea. After a few hours pick up the gun and carefully hand cycle the trigger and hammer. Don’t let the hammer fall or you will have oil spattered all over. Leave the hammer down and unlatch and rotate the cylinder a few times. Then put the gun back in the bath and let it set overnight.

The next day use an air hose (best done outside) to blow out all of the oil you can. Wipe the exterior off with cheap paper towels and then dispose of them because they’ll be a fire hazard. Wipe out the chambers and bore with several dry patches. Then put the stocks back on.

You will usually find that the action works much smoother, and if you do have to disassemble the piece the screws will come out easier then might be expected. Notice that it was not necessary to “pop the side plate.”

Pour the remaining oil back into the original container using a funnel and coffee filter. The oil itself can be used over and over.
 
Having field stripped my Gp100 on occasion, I can attest to the complexity of the trigger group, which is equally as baffling as sear springs and all that ;)
 
I did the same thing on a model 36. The itty bitty spring popped out in a room maybe 12 by 30? Dark carpet too.

I can't believe I found it.

I was always way more careful after that.
 
go for a Ruger. No silly side plates. All rugged investment castings.

huh ?
i want my bullets to be casted and not my revolver !
 
Well, after 7 and a half hours of work today on the 640 pro, I got it all back together! I am at once proud and a bit embarrassed by the whole situation, but I will share the few bits of knowledge I have learned along the way.

1. If you need to replace the sear spring on a MIM hammer, get a couple extras. The first thing I did today was launch another one into oblivion. Third times a charm.

2. The hammer will not drop back into the frame unless two conditions have been met: 1) the trigger is pulled all the way back; 2) the cylinder is attached to the revolver (or the cylinder release is pulled and held back). I foolishly put the hammer in somehow without meeting both conditions, which locked it and everything else in place for about an hour. To remove it, I had to remove the hand. Luckily, these parts are pretty solid, and my poking, prodding, shaking, and prying with a pair of plyers does not seem to have made any lasting marks. For those of you who read the above and shake your heads in dismay, you are absolutely justified. That said, I seem to have escaped mucking up the hammer, the sear, or the hand (mostly).

3. By removing the hand and plopping it back in and installing all the parts, I learned that the hand is controlled by a very important spring officially called the doggerbob, although in some circles it is called the thingermerwhaterjig. Some folks even call it a hand torsion spring. Without it, your revolver is only good for one shot, so you better make it count or make sure the doggerbob is in right. All joking aside, the intricacies of the hand torsion spring would have been lost on me without the following links and photos (actually, even with the links and photos it was lost on me, because I was frustrated... and I had to get my wife to put the trigger back together. I married well.):

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-186213.html

(note the post #3 by Old_Fuff)

and http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-smithing/94072-faqs.html

(note photos in post #8)

Although I did not change any springs, this video was also helpful http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATrz7SSbpAk

4. Of course, to get the doggerbob back into the trigger, I had to remove the bright blue and immensely powerful trigger rest spring thing. Without the proper tools for the task, I had to a flat head screwdriver, a tiny wrench, a fork, and an AC outlet plug for my vacuum cleaner. As it turns out, the AC plug was the most useful for re-installing the reset spring after launching it about 12 times across the room.

5. Although I did not pry the sideplate off, it was a very very tight fit, and it bulged out in a couple places until the sideplate screws were back in. I'm not sure if this means I actually did warp it or what, but its flush with the screws in so thats good enough for now.

6. This should probably be #1. Wear safety glasses!

Well, after paying a premium for overnighting the sear spring screws from brownells (See first post for part #'s) and spending a total of 8 - 12 hours messing things up to require more dissasembly, I am happy to say the 640 has its grips back on and appears to be in good timing. I'll take it to the range in the morning and shoot about 78 rounds of various calibers before I feel comfortable holstering it again. I have learned alot here and I'd like to thank the members of The High Road and encourage those of you as technically inclined as I am to leave the darn sideplate off and just drip some oil in through the frame once the grip is off.

Sincerely,

Triple_T
 
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You do realize of course that Smith & Wesson went to considerable trouble and expense to redesign and engineer the revolver so that they could be assembled by semi-skilled workers on a “drop-in” basis?

Oh well… :D
 
HeHe!

You also realize of course that 50-75-90 year old S&W DA's that have never had the sideplate taken off still work as well or better then they ever did.

Sometimes, it is best not for semi-skilled DIY'ers to try and fix something semi-skilled workers put together that still works like intended.

If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it, if you don't know how!!

rc
 
We moved into a rent house with shag carpet about a year ago. all I can say is GAH!! shag eats everything. I"ve had to tell my wife to go get the magnet more than once....

RC's clear bag idea is pretty good if your project will fit in one.
 
The make awful big clear garbage bags, if you just gotta have one that big.

I buy the 33 gal can size at westlakes!

I use them in the garbage cans in the garage, but the roll always handy if I think a spring is gonna sucked into the junque collection in the shop black hole.

rc
 
You do realize of course that Smith & Wesson went to considerable trouble and expense to redesign and engineer the revolver so that they could be assembled by semi-skilled workers on a “drop-in” basis?

I'm glad I didn't disassemble a colt, that is for sure :D

HeHe!

You also realize of course that 50-75-90 year old S&W DA's that have never had the sideplate taken off still work as well or better then they ever did.

Another excellent point. All said and done, if I can pop the primers on the 78 rounds of variety ammo I have prepared for this 640 tomorrow morning without a hitch, then I will trust it again as a carry weapon. I've learned a bit about s&w internals today... certainly enough to keep my curiosity satiated and avoid further misadventure... perhaps forever ;)
 
Update: Been dryfiring a bit. Lock up is tight. Timing is excellent. Looks like i'm in the clear. May or may not have time to test tomorrow.

FYI:

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;)
 
My first DA-capable revolver was a .454 SRH. I learned the value of a one gallon sized ZipLoc bag in it's trigger group dissassembly before I ever touched a S&W. I later found that it was even more indispensable when working on the similar but smaller SP-101. Then - I discovered S&W revolvers - no more brand new 'works in progress' - they all worked well right out of the box. But... they did have those screws on the sideplate...

My 296 and 642 shared one attribute, which I noticed after sending a few rounds downrange and elected to dissassemble them for an interior cleaning. They were dry as a bone! I flooded them with aerosol RemOil, noting some fine manufacturing filth emanate in the runoff (Always keep clean paper towels under it so you can see the condition of the excess RemOil.). Mop up as much as you can - don't leave lint inside - carefully position the hammer block and replace the sideplate. As the enclosed hammer revolvers were CCWs, no spring changes were made. Night & day difference before & after in trigger pull.

My 'fun' revolvers, destined for my homebrew Federal primed ammo, get new springs. I've had the sideplates off every S&W I've owned - never lost that spring. Trigger rebound springs? My wife found one in a drape in the LR... and found one with the vacuum. It can be fun to re-install. My worst S&W innards? Without question, the 1983 safe queen 24, followed by an '88 vintage 65. I am so glad they don't 'make them like they once did'! Just be careful...

Stainz
 
I have never removed the sdieplate from an alloy framed S&W revolver. In the years I have been shooting I could not couint how many times I have removed sideplates from many steel framed S&W revolvers without incident. Colt revolvers are another story.
 
I'm all thumbs ...

I once lost an ejector, along with a ball detent and spring the size of a grain of rice in a gravel parking area. It was from a Spanish Ruby pistol, and really couldn't be replaced because many of these parts were fitted by hand. So I marked the area and went to my local Home Despot, where I purchased a 12-inch wide "magnetic broom" of sorts. I swept the area, beginning at that point and progressing outward radially. Miracles do occur, and I found all three pieces in about 15 minutes! This tool has saved my behind on a number of occasions ever since.

The trick now is for me to learn how to stake a pin so it doesn't come out.
 
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