Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

This is a different way of looking at home defense calibers...

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Ranger30-06, Feb 25, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Ranger30-06

    Ranger30-06 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2011
    Messages:
    762
    Location:
    The better part of Jersey
    Duplex Owner Wounds Young Intruder

    This is a very different way of looking at selecting your HD gun/caliber. Two really big lessons are extremely emphasized here:

    1) Make sure your gun is reliable with your selected ammo! Run a couple hundred rounds through it before you trust your life to it!
    2) The "lowly" .32 ACP still works. In this case, good shot placement beat penetration, expansion, AND muzzle energy.


    It's a good story with a happy ending; The bad guy goes to prison and the good guy gets his gun back. :D
     
  2. Yo Mama

    Yo Mama Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    Messages:
    2,789
    I once had a friend put it great:

    I don't care if you shoot me in the face with a rubber band gun, I'm gonna flintch. .32 gets more of an umph than the rubber band gun IMO.
     
  3. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    24,041
    Location:
    Idahohoho, the jolliest state
    78 years old and still beating the looters? Well done, old man!
     
  4. Hardtarget

    Hardtarget Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2002
    Messages:
    2,901
    Location:
    Nashville, Tn.
    I think we can say"any gun is better than no gun." We could also add that he is very lucky in many ways.

    I hope I am never forced into a shooting situation! I'm soon to be 62 and I know I'm moving into the "target age" for many criminals. I already look it...white hair and not always moving real fast. Sonetimes my knees and ankles don't like that high speed stuff.

    I can't help but wonder...what did that guy think he would find to steal in a house under renovation? Tools? Not much resale value to those. That man was lucky to win out in this.

    Mark
     
  5. JSpear

    JSpear Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2011
    Messages:
    173
    I'm glad for the old man! A positive outcome in my mind!
     
  6. JO JO BANG

    JO JO BANG Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2012
    Messages:
    30
    Location:
    SOUTHERN STATES
    The shooting will be reviewed by the city prosecutor, police said. Ziolkowski said he would drop off his weapon at the 4th District Police Station for ballistics tests as police requested. They promised to return it to him----HOPE ALL IS WELL
     
  7. Gun Geezer

    Gun Geezer Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2005
    Messages:
    620
    Location:
    Nacogodches, Texas
    So the burgular was a "ute". At least this time Mama was NOT quoted as saying "MY baby didn't do nuthin".

    On a serious note, the old guy is going to have trouble selling that place. Best toss in a shotgun with the asking price!
     
  8. 3KillerBs

    3KillerBs Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2008
    Messages:
    993
    Location:
    NC Sandhills
    I'm told that the prices on scrap metal and copper wire are through the roof at the moment.

    For over a year we haven't had to pay the town to haul off anything made of metal. We just put it out by the road a bit separated from the actual trash and the scrap metal hunters take it within 24 hours.
     
  9. gym

    gym member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2007
    Messages:
    5,903
    A well armed society is a polite society
     
  10. MedWheeler

    MedWheeler Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2008
    Messages:
    4,906
    Location:
    SouthEastern FL
    I'm surprised it wasn't taken from him at the scene. But, I have heard of rare cases in which the defender is even asked if he has another means of protection (another gun) for use during the time his will be tied up.
     
  11. MDW GUNS

    MDW GUNS Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2004
    Messages:
    381
    Location:
    Maine USA
    So the kid had an older revolver himself.
    Hopefully he is judged as an adult and gets the bonus for the gun!
     
  12. natman

    natman Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2007
    Messages:
    3,416
    Can't argue with that one, so I won't.

    I don't see how anything was "beat". It seems to me that the shot placement was adequate and the guy got lucky. I don't see how the outcome would have been worse if more penetration, expansion and energy had been applied.
     
  13. Stevie-Ray

    Stevie-Ray Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2003
    Messages:
    4,059
    Location:
    Mitchi-gun, the Sunrise Side
    Um, through and through and hit one of his neighbors?
     
  14. BLACKHAWKNJ

    BLACKHAWKNJ Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2007
    Messages:
    196
    Jeff Cooper: "First Rule of Gunfighting-have a gun"
    Elmer Keith responding to a correspondent's asking him what he thought of
    a mouse gun"-"Not my cup of tea but sure beats your fists". Or feet or foul language.
     
  15. Ranger30-06

    Ranger30-06 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2011
    Messages:
    762
    Location:
    The better part of Jersey
    Well a lot of people like to push the 9mm as the minimum, and others the .380, however most people will tell you to not even touch the .32's or .25's.

    The other side of the spectrum says that placement is the biggest key to success. In a way, this side is a bit more right, in the sense that poking any hole through an important part of the body (heart, spine, or head) will stop it very quickly, if not instantly.

    This guy managed a threat stopping shot with one .32 ACP hollow point, because he had near perfect shot placement. Muzzle velocity, energy, and expansion were relatively irrelevant and completely trumped because of an excellent shot. If you can hit where you want to even under stress, the .32 you threw in your pocket beats the 9mm you couldn't fit under the coat so you left it in the car. Practice, practice, practice!


    A couple additional key points/questions that I think can be pulled out of this are:
    1) Mouse guns still have there place
    2) Little calibers still poke unwanted holes in the bad guy
    3) How much would have a bigger caliber helped in an identical situation? One shot of .380? 9mm? 45? Heck how about one shot of .357 or .44 mag? All of these come at big costs! (I'm not using this as an excuse for bigger is better, but it should be a driving point to practice with at least 100 rounds of whatever you plan on trusting your life to!) Recoil, gun weight, cost to practice (in the larger calibers at least), and gun size are all significantly increased.
     
  16. Azaraith

    Azaraith Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2011
    Messages:
    15
    Fixed, IMO. 1,000 rounds will cost you ~$350 for 45 ACP. Spread over several range outings, the cost wouldn't be that bad. Being well-versed with your weapon is worth far more than $350 if it comes down to using it. I usually go through 100-150 rounds every time I go to the range...

    On topic, glad he wasn't hurt and he got the job done. I'm not personally comfortable with using a mouse gun for home defense, but in this case it worked for him.
     
  17. duns

    duns Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2009
    Messages:
    814
    Location:
    TX
    Interesting that the bad guy and the good guy both had .32ACP caliber guns.
     
  18. Ranger30-06

    Ranger30-06 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2011
    Messages:
    762
    Location:
    The better part of Jersey
    Not here in Jersey! 1000 rounds of .45 will run you closer to $550 because we can't order handgun ammo online so we have to pay jacked up store prices. While yea, that would be ideal, it just doesn't work for me. I just straight out can't afford 1000 rounds of .40 S&W. I'll buy a box or two when I can, practice with 1/2 the box and stash away the rest in case I ever need it.
     
  19. bigfatdave

    bigfatdave Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2008
    Messages:
    5,961
    Location:
    Near Camp Perry
    Rimlock with short OAL semi-rimmed rounds in a Tomcat magazine, perhaps? You have to choose your ammo and magazine relationships carefully with those little .32acp guns, I know my p32 can malfunction with short rounds if the spacer isn't in.

    Mr Ziolkowski got a shot off against a younger, stronger, faster criminal. The motivations of the criminal may never be known, but burgling while armed* is a dangerous task, and is surely a way to declare adulthood, this isn't a "child" regardless of age. At best, the scumbag was planning a quick burglary without any confrontation, possibly, he planned on a confrontation with a decrepit geezer and brought along his magic talisman of intimidation (+4 to all bluffing rolls) to make sure everything went smoothly, or even worse he simply planned on eliminating the pesky old guy to prevent any interference with a nice scrap metal salvage operation.




    * (the least violent possible motivation I can reasonably imagine, he wasn't there to sell girl scout cookies)
     
  20. FIVETWOSEVEN

    FIVETWOSEVEN Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2009
    Messages:
    5,051
    This case doesn't change my view on calibers. All handgun rounds put a hurt on someone but some more than others.
     
  21. Azaraith

    Azaraith Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2011
    Messages:
    15
    Why would you wanna live in Jersey??? :scrutiny::scrutiny::scrutiny: I've been to Newark - never again! lol :eek:

    I'm guessing getting out of state ammo for cheap and driving it back to Jersey would be out of the picture too...
     
  22. mortablunt

    mortablunt Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,590
    Location:
    Deutschland
    1. Only 200 rounds? If a gun cannot make it through 1000 rounds, then it is a peice of junk.
    2. Probably a fluke; all handgun rounds are ballistically not that powerful. Even the 45 ACP isn't always a fast manstopper. He lucked out.
    3. The most important rule is to be practiced with the gun at hand.
    4. Hit the target.

    I'd like to blow the biggest hole in the threat possible. How does 5 rounds of 7.62x54R strike you, Mr. Thug?
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2012
  23. Mofungo

    Mofungo Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2010
    Messages:
    1
    @Ranger 30-06

    It is legal to buy on-line in Jersey. Some of the bigger box discount outlets will not ship to Jersey, but enough others will that discounts can be had.
     
  24. Ranger30-06

    Ranger30-06 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2011
    Messages:
    762
    Location:
    The better part of Jersey
    Not handgun ammo. The state records all handgun ammo purchased by NJ owners, and bypassing that system by going online will get you a knock on the door by the local sheriff and his gang. Apparently though, it's perfectly legal to go over to PA to buy ammo and bring it back. I'm pretty sure the law is to keep people under 21 from buying handgun ammo, but like most other gun laws, it's effectiveness just isn't there.
     
  25. natman

    natman Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2007
    Messages:
    3,416
    A 32 worked. This time. 32s work. Sometimes. Larger calibers work a larger percentage of the time, so I'll take the largest I can shoot straight, which is a lot bigger than a 32 ACP.

    BTW, the argument "the .32 you threw in your pocket beats the 9mm you couldn't fit" doesn't fit in this situation, the shooter was at home.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page