cassandrasdaddy
Member
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2006
- Messages
- 4,206
did he break in? or walk in the back door?
This is for everybody who continues to insist that anyone in their home is a threat
- Thread starter Jeff White
- Start date
- Status
Joe Demko
Member
Crimoney. I'm not manly enough to open my mouth in the company of such steely-eyed gunslingers...but I will anyway.
I'll hazard that Mr. White's point is less that the chaplain shouldn't have shot than it is that even though it was, seemingly, the right decision to shoot; the results were tragic. IOW: Don't be eager to shoot.
My apologies to Mr. White if I have misinterpreted his point.
I'll hazard that Mr. White's point is less that the chaplain shouldn't have shot than it is that even though it was, seemingly, the right decision to shoot; the results were tragic. IOW: Don't be eager to shoot.
My apologies to Mr. White if I have misinterpreted his point.
bogie
Member
Festus is basically a suburb of St. Louis.
IMHO, there's gotta be something weird about the water supply for the local police academy... Too many stupid po-po tricks to be explained away any other way...
IMHO, there's gotta be something weird about the water supply for the local police academy... Too many stupid po-po tricks to be explained away any other way...
The homeowner responded appropriate to the circumstance. In a similar circumstance, I would react the similarly, and if I were a juror, that is how I would have to vote.
Now, what do I do different as a protective measure? I use a M6 light/laser. Anyone who sees their hiding area painted by a light & laser, and still does not ID themselves is a perp. I have a duty to my life and to my family's lives to assume that the perp is here to harm me and/or my family.
I set up my camera to take a picture of the business end of an M6:
View attachment 333653
Doc2005
Now, what do I do different as a protective measure? I use a M6 light/laser. Anyone who sees their hiding area painted by a light & laser, and still does not ID themselves is a perp. I have a duty to my life and to my family's lives to assume that the perp is here to harm me and/or my family.
I set up my camera to take a picture of the business end of an M6:
View attachment 333653
Doc2005
A group of young adults organized this game in my area. I wondered about them being mistaken for prowlers or other BGs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassin_(game)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassin_(game)
I understand, and agree with Mr. White's general point. The problem that I had is with the absolute way in which it was made.
Bottom line: we don't have enough info from that article to know whether or not the Chaplain did all he could to ID the target. From the info we got he could have snap-fired at an indiscriminate shadow or have had all the lights on and shot at an armed and masked or hooded man that wasn't answering, was advancing on him and had his face covered. We don't know. Even if we did know all those minute details, it doesn't help us in our own homes and family situations which are all different than his and would require different measures and assumptions to positively ID intruders unique to our situations.
These stories are tragic and serve only as good cautionary tales for us to examine and re-examine how we all would handle target ID in our own circumstances and under what conditions we would fire. Call out, don't go searching unless you need to (to protect a family member perhaps), use light to your advantage to both ID threats and if possible limit their acquisition of you.
Bottom line: we don't have enough info from that article to know whether or not the Chaplain did all he could to ID the target. From the info we got he could have snap-fired at an indiscriminate shadow or have had all the lights on and shot at an armed and masked or hooded man that wasn't answering, was advancing on him and had his face covered. We don't know. Even if we did know all those minute details, it doesn't help us in our own homes and family situations which are all different than his and would require different measures and assumptions to positively ID intruders unique to our situations.
These stories are tragic and serve only as good cautionary tales for us to examine and re-examine how we all would handle target ID in our own circumstances and under what conditions we would fire. Call out, don't go searching unless you need to (to protect a family member perhaps), use light to your advantage to both ID threats and if possible limit their acquisition of you.
Lucky
Member
Joe Demko, in CCW class I remember that point being emphasized repeatedly - when you actually have to make a life-and-death decision in a situation, remember to hesitate. You can't hesitate enough. Or was it the other way around, ah who can remember. Why not ask the police department, they probably have clear-cut guidelines on this. They could tell you if it's better to hesitate when it's right to shoot. When an officer is grabbed from behind at night, he should probably assume it's a friendly bear-hug until proven otherwise.
That's not what the OP wrote. That is exactly what Massad Ayoob has written multiple times though. So you're not wrong, nor he, but you are if you interpret that from this:
OP wrote:
Perhaps what is confused here is that the ASSAILANT did not know about tragedy that could be caused. If he was a child you could blame his parents for his stupidity. But in no case can you blame the victim.
BTG3 you would not believe the irony. Same forum, same posters, but on that topic of discussion so many had completely different opinions than expressed in this thread. They were talking about kids with backpacks in daytime with Nerf guns and supersoakers, and how it was unreasonable to expect police not to shoot them. It's one thing to have an opinion, but really inconsistent opinions are the worst.
That's not what the OP wrote. That is exactly what Massad Ayoob has written multiple times though. So you're not wrong, nor he, but you are if you interpret that from this:
OP wrote:
Perhaps what is confused here is that the ASSAILANT did not know about tragedy that could be caused. If he was a child you could blame his parents for his stupidity. But in no case can you blame the victim.
BTG3 you would not believe the irony. Same forum, same posters, but on that topic of discussion so many had completely different opinions than expressed in this thread. They were talking about kids with backpacks in daytime with Nerf guns and supersoakers, and how it was unreasonable to expect police not to shoot them. It's one thing to have an opinion, but really inconsistent opinions are the worst.
The usual caveats apply: MSM article, not 100% information, etc...
I do not have a weapon-mounted light, but do keep a serious light handy near the HD weapon. Probably the only different thing I would do is use the light to illuminate the target for a moment, when challenging the intruder with my drill sgt voice.
Really, the light is only partly for ID and mostly to ensure a good COM shot. Any man-sized human in my house other than me is HIGHLY suspicious, as it is me, my 5'-nuthin' wife, and two toddlers.
Maybe that would have saved the knuckle-headed cop from getting a bullet in the gut. Maybe not. Not enough information. I can be fairly certain that if the moron/cop had on a ski mask and had a knife in hand, the results would have been multiple COM shots.
I bet the BIL doesn't pull such a Stupid Human Trick any time soon.
I can not summon the will to call this a "tragedy," due to the target's sheer knuckleheadery. What does he do when not "fake" B&Eing? Bungee jump over piranha-infested waters? Play mumbley-peg with a meat cleaver? Contend with a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line?
There are situations that would better illustrate JW's point in the OP than that used.
I do not have a weapon-mounted light, but do keep a serious light handy near the HD weapon. Probably the only different thing I would do is use the light to illuminate the target for a moment, when challenging the intruder with my drill sgt voice.
Really, the light is only partly for ID and mostly to ensure a good COM shot. Any man-sized human in my house other than me is HIGHLY suspicious, as it is me, my 5'-nuthin' wife, and two toddlers.
Maybe that would have saved the knuckle-headed cop from getting a bullet in the gut. Maybe not. Not enough information. I can be fairly certain that if the moron/cop had on a ski mask and had a knife in hand, the results would have been multiple COM shots.
I bet the BIL doesn't pull such a Stupid Human Trick any time soon.
I can not summon the will to call this a "tragedy," due to the target's sheer knuckleheadery. What does he do when not "fake" B&Eing? Bungee jump over piranha-infested waters? Play mumbley-peg with a meat cleaver? Contend with a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line?
There are situations that would better illustrate JW's point in the OP than that used.
shmavistime
Member
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2006
- Messages
- 18
If someone comes into your house in the middle of the night, you ask them who they are, and they don't answer, Id say its pretty safe to assume that its a criminal. If you ask a guy that shows up in your bedroom at 2 in the morning who they are, is he required to say "I'm Bob the burglar." No. The chaplain shouldn't feel like he did anything wrong, but the brother in law should.
gdvan01
Member
As already mentioned above, cleaning of the gene pool isn't always pleasant. The fool got what he deserved.
Gunnerpalace
Member
Now this brings up that TV show Punk'd if you were a celebrity and they tried some of those jokes (I've seen 'em too think fake carjacking,assault etc) on you and you shot would that be a crime?
sm
member
Jeff I agree with.
I grew up with 3 Rules of Gun Safety:
1. All guns are always loaded .
2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy; your gun pointed in a safe direction at all times: on the range, at home, loading, or unloading.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target and
you are sure of target, what it is, what is in line with it and what is behind it.
Often said a bit different, gist always the same...
I was raised learning to shoot and taking lessons on a Hot Range with these 3 Rules, which later Rule 3 was split and made into what is Rule 4 Today.
I hope nobody ever gets hurt , injured, and due to Auditory Exclusion - gets shot, or shoots someone else at the back door or any other part of a house or structure.
Reality is, one cannot be in a state of awareness 24/7/365, the human anatomy and physiology just cannot do this .
So with Serious Situations, such as Riots, or Cop being shot at a traffic stop and Cops in the neighborhood, or Plains clothes/Undercover arriving at the scene when a Armed Robbery is going down...
I can honestly state I have never had a Firearm discharged at me, by "Like Kind" - even with stress, adrenaline pumping, Auditory Exclusion ...because them 3 Rules of Safety / 4 Rules of Safety were adhered to.
On the other hand I have had BGs and some pro-gun folks, not adhere to rules and trust me when I share, it don't make a damn if the person is pro-gun, a thug, or even anti - ends of muzzles are not attractive and Incoming has the right of way.
Front door comes in, 3 adults and I have 3 younger kids under my charge during Riots.
Gun shots, firebombs, and all hell breaking loose and I stopped that threat.
Threat was real, these adults busted down the front door and in no uncertain terms verbalized intent and were armed.
Kids stayed put, scared, crying, not knowing what has happened or if I am hurt or dead, just they did hear me call out to Threats and heard gun shots (mine).
Adults come to my aid, there was no 911 back then.
I am in survival mode and have just fired a gun, and stopped threats - I could not hear the kids , nor the Adults, but I was scanning and trying my damnedest to remember what Mentors & Elders had taught me so far and were teaching me.
My muzzle never covered a Adult that came to my aid.
I was kid, and had my fun being a kid, and Mentors & Elders and I had our fun, razzing and all...
Not with serious "tools" such as firearms, knives, axes, and the like we did not.
Mentors included those Vets from previous Conflicts and some were amputees, blind, and had awful scars and burns and other injuries...
Tough lessons, still I appreciate these hard to share lessons they shared...
Heck, we had "skeleton keys" on many homes, it was normal to use one's key to open another home...still we had common courtesy, respect and 'Lessons' on all this...
Like checking on one of them Vets, or a Widow women, or similar and "letting ourselves in" as we did.
I agree with Jeff.
I agree to the degree I walked off from some things that involve Shooters, these types folks scared the hell out of me then, and continue to.
Then again, what do I know, I was raised with only 3 Rules of Gun Safety...
I grew up with 3 Rules of Gun Safety:
1. All guns are always loaded .
2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy; your gun pointed in a safe direction at all times: on the range, at home, loading, or unloading.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target and
you are sure of target, what it is, what is in line with it and what is behind it.
Often said a bit different, gist always the same...
I was raised learning to shoot and taking lessons on a Hot Range with these 3 Rules, which later Rule 3 was split and made into what is Rule 4 Today.
I hope nobody ever gets hurt , injured, and due to Auditory Exclusion - gets shot, or shoots someone else at the back door or any other part of a house or structure.
Reality is, one cannot be in a state of awareness 24/7/365, the human anatomy and physiology just cannot do this .
So with Serious Situations, such as Riots, or Cop being shot at a traffic stop and Cops in the neighborhood, or Plains clothes/Undercover arriving at the scene when a Armed Robbery is going down...
I can honestly state I have never had a Firearm discharged at me, by "Like Kind" - even with stress, adrenaline pumping, Auditory Exclusion ...because them 3 Rules of Safety / 4 Rules of Safety were adhered to.
On the other hand I have had BGs and some pro-gun folks, not adhere to rules and trust me when I share, it don't make a damn if the person is pro-gun, a thug, or even anti - ends of muzzles are not attractive and Incoming has the right of way.
Front door comes in, 3 adults and I have 3 younger kids under my charge during Riots.
Gun shots, firebombs, and all hell breaking loose and I stopped that threat.
Threat was real, these adults busted down the front door and in no uncertain terms verbalized intent and were armed.
Kids stayed put, scared, crying, not knowing what has happened or if I am hurt or dead, just they did hear me call out to Threats and heard gun shots (mine).
Adults come to my aid, there was no 911 back then.
I am in survival mode and have just fired a gun, and stopped threats - I could not hear the kids , nor the Adults, but I was scanning and trying my damnedest to remember what Mentors & Elders had taught me so far and were teaching me.
My muzzle never covered a Adult that came to my aid.
I was kid, and had my fun being a kid, and Mentors & Elders and I had our fun, razzing and all...
Not with serious "tools" such as firearms, knives, axes, and the like we did not.
Mentors included those Vets from previous Conflicts and some were amputees, blind, and had awful scars and burns and other injuries...
Tough lessons, still I appreciate these hard to share lessons they shared...
Heck, we had "skeleton keys" on many homes, it was normal to use one's key to open another home...still we had common courtesy, respect and 'Lessons' on all this...
Like checking on one of them Vets, or a Widow women, or similar and "letting ourselves in" as we did.
I agree with Jeff.
I agree to the degree I walked off from some things that involve Shooters, these types folks scared the hell out of me then, and continue to.
Then again, what do I know, I was raised with only 3 Rules of Gun Safety...
TexasSkyhawk
Internet SEAL
edited
Last edited:
sm
member
TexasSkyhawk,
In all due Respect, I suggest you read your post and consider a edit.
I am a Southern Gentleman , I still reside in the South, and I happen to know Jeff White and Family.
Jeff has BTDT . Not my place to defend Jeff or anyone.
Just, I would consider an edit, as Jeff as they are many others around this Forum , that many do not know the person, the persons background and experiences.
I don't know everyone, still I know some, and Jeff is one.
In all due Respect, I suggest you read your post and consider a edit.
I am a Southern Gentleman , I still reside in the South, and I happen to know Jeff White and Family.
Jeff has BTDT . Not my place to defend Jeff or anyone.
Just, I would consider an edit, as Jeff as they are many others around this Forum , that many do not know the person, the persons background and experiences.
I don't know everyone, still I know some, and Jeff is one.
TexasSkyhawk
Internet SEAL
sm,
Yes sir, I'll respect that.
But I would also hope that Jeff would read some of his posts and consider how they come across to any number of us.
This IS the internet and it IS hard to infer the proper tone, and that could very well be how my post is taken. If that is the case with Jeff, I'll be more than obliged to sincerely and publicly apologize.
I've seen a lot of crime victims--alive and dead--because they did what many, including Jeff, have and continue to advocate simply out of fear of what some prosecutor might do to them. It's a double-edged sword at best, and the classic Heller Catch-22 at worst.
I learned as a young man doing a god-awful dirty job for Uncle Sam to err on the side of life--my own and that of the Team.
Perhaps I will edit.
Jeff
Yes sir, I'll respect that.
But I would also hope that Jeff would read some of his posts and consider how they come across to any number of us.
This IS the internet and it IS hard to infer the proper tone, and that could very well be how my post is taken. If that is the case with Jeff, I'll be more than obliged to sincerely and publicly apologize.
I've seen a lot of crime victims--alive and dead--because they did what many, including Jeff, have and continue to advocate simply out of fear of what some prosecutor might do to them. It's a double-edged sword at best, and the classic Heller Catch-22 at worst.
I learned as a young man doing a god-awful dirty job for Uncle Sam to err on the side of life--my own and that of the Team.
Perhaps I will edit.
Jeff
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
Let's see, there was an intruder in the home who gained entry by a manner for which he did not have permission. He encountered the homeowner who challenged the intruder by demanding identification. Given that there is no reason to expect friendlies/family to remain silent in such a situation, the homeowner identified the intruder as a threat. There is no reason to expect bad guy home intruders to identify themselves when challenged. So when the intruder failed to do so, the homeowner determined the intruder to be a threat and took action.
You most certainly can hesitate enough, enough to the point that it gets you killed. After the homeowner challenged the intruder, the homeowner had given away his position and hence lost much of his tactical advantage. At that point, had the intruder been dangerous, he could have started firing at the homeowner who he would see as a threat.
Why not ask the police department? Their rules of engagement have completely different parameters than that of a homeowner. They will be wearing ballistic vests, have the ability to summon every cop in the area at a moment's notice, etc. They won't be defending their own home from an intruder. They will tell you that hesitation is just what gets a lot of cops killed.
I don't get why folks want to blame the homeowner for the shooting. Of all people, the intruder cop should have known better, known the risks, and not been so stupid as to try to remain unidentified when challenged during the commission of a crime (B&E).
Honestly, I have to wonder if the intruder cop was really there to play a joke or not. His actions were not those of being a joke.
really so me leaving my door unlocked makes it my fault that someone breaks in??? why should i have to lock up my property to keep other people from stealing it?
sorry, but i have NO duty to make it any harder to enter my property than simply shutting the door... if you enter without permission, i have to assume that you are an immediate danger to me and my family until i can prove otherwise... my door in my house is unlocked unless i am asleep or gone... i am a smoker that smokes outside, so i am going outside every hour or so...
in the above case of the brother in law... he might not have been a criminal... but he was damn sure acting like one...
in the case of the father shooting his daughter... perhaps the father is slightly at fault for not making sure that his daughter would know how he would handle an intruder in his house... i assure you my kids and wife know exactly how i would have handled a situation like that... though me coming home to see my front door ajar might make me sit outside and call the cops, not clear room to room... but again, the daughter was acting like a criminal...
anyone entering my house and not identifying themself is a threat and will be handled as such...
Grump
Member
A lot of this talk just won't work if the intruder is both drunk* and deaf.
I'm in favor of better ID, BUT the shooter/homeowner/victim of "pretended" crime still deserves every benefit of the doubt.
Not every legal presumption must be acted upon to the fullest. That's what the grey matter between our ears is for.
BTW, I laughed about the high-speed, low-drag light switch. I have a few of those, too. For those who decry the suggestion to use that lovely switch, I say you must be understating the effectiveness of your one-hand shooting, or ignoring it in your training. I do enough 3-5 yard work one-handed to know what I need to see** to get my hits, even when the support hand is being otherwise occupied. My older home (1980!) has only three spots that exceed 18 feet of clear space, so you can see how unlikely it is for both me and an intruder to be all the way across the room from each other.
*or otherwise innocently and mistakenly inside your chosen personal space.
**credit for this idea goes to the good Brian Enos. Everyone I've had repeat their pointshooting exploits -without- having even a peripheral vision index on the gun, have suddenly become drastically less accurate. Learn to "sight" with different, even oblique, visual references to your SD piece(s).
I'm in favor of better ID, BUT the shooter/homeowner/victim of "pretended" crime still deserves every benefit of the doubt.
Not every legal presumption must be acted upon to the fullest. That's what the grey matter between our ears is for.
BTW, I laughed about the high-speed, low-drag light switch. I have a few of those, too. For those who decry the suggestion to use that lovely switch, I say you must be understating the effectiveness of your one-hand shooting, or ignoring it in your training. I do enough 3-5 yard work one-handed to know what I need to see** to get my hits, even when the support hand is being otherwise occupied. My older home (1980!) has only three spots that exceed 18 feet of clear space, so you can see how unlikely it is for both me and an intruder to be all the way across the room from each other.
*or otherwise innocently and mistakenly inside your chosen personal space.
**credit for this idea goes to the good Brian Enos. Everyone I've had repeat their pointshooting exploits -without- having even a peripheral vision index on the gun, have suddenly become drastically less accurate. Learn to "sight" with different, even oblique, visual references to your SD piece(s).
WeedWhacker
Member
Jeff White said:
Light switches are not always in convenient places. Mine, for example, are so stupidly placed in relation to the bedroom that I'd have to traverse an entire room to get to any of the light switches outside the hall.
Weapon mounted lights may be acceptable to those who can afford them or tho don't mind pointing a lethal weapon at something to shine a light at it. Flashlights may be fine for those who don't use a two-handed self-defense weapon.
In my case, and I assume like the guy who shot his brother in law, NO ONE has any business being in my house except me, not at any time. Anyone found there had darn well better speak up when I yelp "who's there!? Identify yourself!", because, as stated eloquently by Cosmoline, the home's resident has no other logical reason to suspect that a shadowy intruder who refuses to identify himself is anything but hostile.
GuyWithQuestions
Member
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2006
- Messages
- 451
Leaving one's doors unlocked while carrying a firearm should reasonably foresee harm
Keep in mind I said if he actually locked his doors, he should be legally justified, although it was a tragic event for him.
From what I've read from multiple sources, which may be wrong but sound credible, in the U.S.A. the law has "Negligence Torts" where they say in many situations you owe a duty of care. If you breach your legal duty of care and it's obvious that damages resulted because of it, then you may be held liable, and expected to pay some in damages. Legal duty is the flip side of liability, when there's no legal duty there can be no liability and when there's legal duty there's liability. I was reading that a landowner owes a "duty of common humanity" towards trespassers. The law says that landowners don't owe the undiscovered trespassers any legal tort duty, but for the anticipated or discovered trespasser, a landowner owes a legal duty to warn them of deadly conditions on the land which would be hidden to them, but which the property owner is a aware of, and if they breach that duty they may be held liable. That's why many people will put up warning signs on their property or even fences if they're reasonably aware of certain dangers lurking. Many may argue that someone who leaves his doors unlocked while carrying around a loaded firearm with the attitude of shooting at everyone who comes inside should reasonably foresee harm being done to others. Similar to running a red light, hitting someone else, and then often being required to make sure the other party is paid for because you breached your legal duty not to run red lights, you may be required to pay money if you breach certain legal duties that landowners owe towards anticipated or discovered trespassers, even if they really are trespassers. But then, what do I know, that's just what I've read from several sources. I'm just saying that it may not be a wise idea to leave your doors unlocked while carrying around a firearm with the attitude that you're going to shoot at everyone who comes inside without giving them any warning that you're going to shoot (more than just asking for a name).
How many times do I have to hear from many places that juries are usually more sympathetic towards those who keep their doors locked and then shoot someone who breaks in vs. someone who constantly leaves their all doors unlocked and then shoots at someone who comes inside finding out later that that person didn't have any bad intentions, even if it was by surprise?
Keep in mind I said if he actually locked his doors, he should be legally justified, although it was a tragic event for him.
From what I've read from multiple sources, which may be wrong but sound credible, in the U.S.A. the law has "Negligence Torts" where they say in many situations you owe a duty of care. If you breach your legal duty of care and it's obvious that damages resulted because of it, then you may be held liable, and expected to pay some in damages. Legal duty is the flip side of liability, when there's no legal duty there can be no liability and when there's legal duty there's liability. I was reading that a landowner owes a "duty of common humanity" towards trespassers. The law says that landowners don't owe the undiscovered trespassers any legal tort duty, but for the anticipated or discovered trespasser, a landowner owes a legal duty to warn them of deadly conditions on the land which would be hidden to them, but which the property owner is a aware of, and if they breach that duty they may be held liable. That's why many people will put up warning signs on their property or even fences if they're reasonably aware of certain dangers lurking. Many may argue that someone who leaves his doors unlocked while carrying around a loaded firearm with the attitude of shooting at everyone who comes inside should reasonably foresee harm being done to others. Similar to running a red light, hitting someone else, and then often being required to make sure the other party is paid for because you breached your legal duty not to run red lights, you may be required to pay money if you breach certain legal duties that landowners owe towards anticipated or discovered trespassers, even if they really are trespassers. But then, what do I know, that's just what I've read from several sources. I'm just saying that it may not be a wise idea to leave your doors unlocked while carrying around a firearm with the attitude that you're going to shoot at everyone who comes inside without giving them any warning that you're going to shoot (more than just asking for a name).
How many times do I have to hear from many places that juries are usually more sympathetic towards those who keep their doors locked and then shoot someone who breaks in vs. someone who constantly leaves their all doors unlocked and then shoots at someone who comes inside finding out later that that person didn't have any bad intentions, even if it was by surprise?
GuyWithQuestions
Member
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2006
- Messages
- 451
Some may counter with "What if I leave the doors to my car unlocked and someone enters my car? Still even if my car is unlocked, they have no business being in my car." Yes, I agree that they should know right from wrong regardless if your car is unlocked! Now let's say you live in a state where it's legal to use lethal force to protect your property. (I actually met someone who moved here from California claiming that in California you can legally shoot a two year old if you catch her pulling out grass that happens to be on your lawn 
) Most of us have seen passengers who accidentally try to open up the door to the wrong car, only to find out that it's locked, or have seen someone trying to open up a car that looks similar to theirs when it's dark out, only to find out that their keys don't work in that car. A jury may or may not think that someone who leaves his car doors unlocked while carrying a firearm with the attitude of shooting anyone who tugs on a door handle should be able to reasonably foresee harm being done to people who may not have necessarily meant any harm. Likewise, people do accidentally walk into the wrong place, drunks also, so it may not be a bad idea to lock the doors to your home and if you don't at least warn them that you're going to shoot.
I live in off-campus student housing and sleep with a chambered/cocked firearm (and of course also my grizzly bear pepper spray
) Quite a few of these apartments look similar and it's quite common for people to accidentally walk into the wrong apartment. I live in a private bedroom, although I have roommates with their own bedrooms attached to some bathrooms, a kitchen/living room. At night I lock my bedroom door because it's always possible that someone may accidentally walk into the wrong bedroom at night or just open the door because they're curious about inside. I may be wrong, but I figure that if someone kicks down my locked bedroom door and comes in, I may be a lot less in trouble if I open fire in that situation (not including any stray bullets that I may be liable for) than if I leave by bedroom door unlocked and a roommate/neighbor accidentally comes in at night. About two weeks ago, the front door to my apartment was locked and I knew 100% that all my roommates had gone home for the Christmas Break. I heard someone breaking in, it happened to be one of my roommates girlfriends who always just decides to help herself to our apartment (which I didn't like that she broke in when the door was locked and her boyfriend was gone). Just imagine what my roommate would have thought if I was like "Sorry dude, over Christmas Break I shot your girlfriend with a gun when she came into our apartment". I'm sure that he wouldn't be too happy. I'd say be careful who you shoot, and I've heard from multiple sources that if you're going to shoot whoever walks inside your home and ask questions later, make sure that you keep your doors locked to avoid being partially liable.
) Most of us have seen passengers who accidentally try to open up the door to the wrong car, only to find out that it's locked, or have seen someone trying to open up a car that looks similar to theirs when it's dark out, only to find out that their keys don't work in that car. A jury may or may not think that someone who leaves his car doors unlocked while carrying a firearm with the attitude of shooting anyone who tugs on a door handle should be able to reasonably foresee harm being done to people who may not have necessarily meant any harm. Likewise, people do accidentally walk into the wrong place, drunks also, so it may not be a bad idea to lock the doors to your home and if you don't at least warn them that you're going to shoot.I live in off-campus student housing and sleep with a chambered/cocked firearm (and of course also my grizzly bear pepper spray
) Quite a few of these apartments look similar and it's quite common for people to accidentally walk into the wrong apartment. I live in a private bedroom, although I have roommates with their own bedrooms attached to some bathrooms, a kitchen/living room. At night I lock my bedroom door because it's always possible that someone may accidentally walk into the wrong bedroom at night or just open the door because they're curious about inside. I may be wrong, but I figure that if someone kicks down my locked bedroom door and comes in, I may be a lot less in trouble if I open fire in that situation (not including any stray bullets that I may be liable for) than if I leave by bedroom door unlocked and a roommate/neighbor accidentally comes in at night. About two weeks ago, the front door to my apartment was locked and I knew 100% that all my roommates had gone home for the Christmas Break. I heard someone breaking in, it happened to be one of my roommates girlfriends who always just decides to help herself to our apartment (which I didn't like that she broke in when the door was locked and her boyfriend was gone). Just imagine what my roommate would have thought if I was like "Sorry dude, over Christmas Break I shot your girlfriend with a gun when she came into our apartment". I'm sure that he wouldn't be too happy. I'd say be careful who you shoot, and I've heard from multiple sources that if you're going to shoot whoever walks inside your home and ask questions later, make sure that you keep your doors locked to avoid being partially liable.threat
This is a Darwin award. Not everyone in my home is necessarily a threat but if I am home and someone breaks into my house, it is a reasonable assumption that they do pose a threat to me. Anyone who thinks that breaking and entering is a joke, particularly a law enforcement officer, is showing a catastrophic lack of judgement. That said, it's still a good point. I once broke into a friend's house because he didn't answer his door - I came to his house to drive him to the hospital for a battery of tests relating to a heart condition. I had just spoken to him 10 minutes before pulling into his driveway, and he had said he was ready to go. After knocking, yelling and calling for several minutes I finally panicked and kicked in his door, fearing the worst. A neighbor called the police on me and they arrived a few minutes before he got back from another neighbor's house (I'm still not sure why he chose to step out right then). In retrospect I acted a bit rashly, and put myself in a dangerous position where I could have been shot.
This is a Darwin award. Not everyone in my home is necessarily a threat but if I am home and someone breaks into my house, it is a reasonable assumption that they do pose a threat to me. Anyone who thinks that breaking and entering is a joke, particularly a law enforcement officer, is showing a catastrophic lack of judgement. That said, it's still a good point. I once broke into a friend's house because he didn't answer his door - I came to his house to drive him to the hospital for a battery of tests relating to a heart condition. I had just spoken to him 10 minutes before pulling into his driveway, and he had said he was ready to go. After knocking, yelling and calling for several minutes I finally panicked and kicked in his door, fearing the worst. A neighbor called the police on me and they arrived a few minutes before he got back from another neighbor's house (I'm still not sure why he chose to step out right then). In retrospect I acted a bit rashly, and put myself in a dangerous position where I could have been shot.
2Ais4U
Member.
In the time it takes me to identify the target as a BG he may have already killed me, if I say announce yourself, you better do it, if not you are labeled hostile and a threat.
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