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This is NOT good

Discussion in 'Hunting' started by Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow, Aug 23, 2009.

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  1. Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow

    Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow member

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    So I'm practicing with my compound bows little while ago this morning, shooting a target on a beautiful day from about 18 yards. After maybe 30 shots or so, I pull back....just as soon as I get to full draw, or actually a little before, before full letoff - BAM, my right shoulder joint just pulls forward out of its socket. I can feel it and hear it grind and pop forward, so I drop the bow, fall to the ground, and let out a yelp in pretty bad pain. It popped right immediately back into place as I was letting the string down/ dropping bow/ dropping to the ground all in one motion. So it was literally out then back in, in a matter of less than a second. But it hurt pretty bad for a minute or two. Now this is the same shoulder I've injured 4 or 5 times before playing sports, and so it's a known weak spot since the initial time I dislocated it about 6-7 years back. But first time it's ever done this when shooting a bow, and in the past its dislocated in a backward direction, not forward like this time. This is with a compound set at about 65-68 lb draw weight right now.

    So I'm sure gunshy now after feeling that pain. Don't want to do that again. So now I'm going to have to lay off shooting any bow for 2-3 weeks to give it time to heal (which is not good considering archery season starts on Oct 1), AND do some combination of the following:

    1. When I resume shooting, crank my bows down to their minimum of 60 lbs, which is still plenty of power for hunting
    2. Doctor visit to get Rx for orthotic device of some type which will hold the shoulder backward, and go across the back to the other shoulder to keep the joint more immobilized and held to the rear. OR, obtain such a contraption without the necessity of a doctor visit & Rx (possible?). I think that this idea is probably the best and most important one among my several options.
    3. Doctor visit to look at surgery options or other medical options
    4. Get a doctor's permission slip saying I'm crippled up, go buy and hunt with a crossbow. Sell my old standard archery equipment. Accept the fact that I'm a borderline geezer, and lose tons of $$ on all the equip I've invested into right handed bows, not to mention the skill level I've invested in.
    5. Change to a left-hand shooter, and lose tons of $$ on all the equip I've invested into right handed bows, not to mention the skill level I've invested in.
    6. Quit archery shooting & hunting.

    I think I'm *definitely* going to do #1.
    Almost certainly going to do #2 (any experience or advice with #2 anyone?)

    Really don't want to do #4
    Really really don't want to do #5
    Really really REALLY don't want to do #6

    But looking for advice on #1 - #3, espec. #2 and #3, if you have had anything similar happen. Thanks very much in advance. I was really looking forward to getting 1 or 2 deer with a bow this year. :mad:
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2009
  2. pbearperry

    pbearperry Member

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    Ahhhhhh the Golden Years.
     
  3. Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow

    Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow member

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    Yeah, that helps.
     
  4. DRYHUMOR

    DRYHUMOR Member

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    I have a buddy that hunts with a crossbow and swears by it. It's quiet enough that only deer that are close by are spooked by the shot.
     
  5. MCgunner

    MCgunner Member

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    Hell, I'd get the permission slip for the crossbow, wouldn't think twice about it! You probably are more bow purist than me, but I'd love that!

    For sure, if you're pulling more'n 60 lbs, you're shooting excessive weight. Get a bow you can crank down to 50, that's more'n enough, really. Or, maybe you can put lighter limbs on the bow you have?

    As many shoulder problems as I've had over the years, I've never had one dislocate like that, knock on wood. Actually, I think I've welded 'em together rather than knocking 'em loose, LOL
     
  6. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    number 4
     
  7. WTBguns10kOK

    WTBguns10kOK Member

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    I still have my health and I've always wanted to use a crossbow anyway. go for 4!
     
  8. kd7nqb

    kd7nqb Member

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    I think you need to go to your Doc and see what he says. It would be nice if you could find a doctor that was a hunter, he might have a little more insight.
     
  9. NCsmitty

    NCsmitty Member

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  10. 3pairs12

    3pairs12 Member

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    Don't you thionk cocking a 175lb crossbow will feel good on the shoulder also. I would rank your bows down to 60lbs after seeing the doc to find out whats wrong with the shoulder. I am pretty sure that quiet and accurate beat speed anyway. You don't need 70lb draw weight. Really this is all speculation until you get a doctors advice anyway. So going to the doctor would be very high on the list for me. I would already be checking out brace options also. You will be shooting those bows again in no time. You may even look into lighter limbs like 50-60lb range. You can probably get yours swapped out. 50lb bow will still smoke a deer.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2009
  11. chuwee81

    chuwee81 Member

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    ouch, my hands got weak after reading that.
     
  12. tango2echo

    tango2echo Member

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    I would also think about switching to a longbow or a recurve and learning to shoot instinctively. A recurve at 45-50lbs is plenty for deer and you are only holding the draw weight for a few seconds at most. The "form" with a traditional bow is also different. You are pushing as much with your bow arm as you are pulling with your draw arm.

    If you want to have a custom bow made this is the guy:

    http://www.weswallacebows.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.home

    I have the Partner Takedown model, which I bought after a shoulder injury.

    t2e
     
  13. MCgunner

    MCgunner Member

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    I own a 60 lb compound and a 50 lb recurve and I can tell you without hesitation the compound is the easier to draw, hold, and shoot. That recurve is a FULL 50 lbs at full draw and I tire quick with it at full draw. I use it to train. After shooting it, I can stand there all day with the compound at full draw, LOL!
     
  14. tango2echo

    tango2echo Member

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    There's no let-off on the recurve Gunny. You also should not be "holding" the weight of the recurve. When you draw it next time, try holding the riser parallel to the ground. Then push away with the bow hand as you pull with the string hand, while bringing the riser into the shooting position. As soon as the target, tip of the arrow, and nock are all in the same plane and over the target, release. The whole motion should be smooth and fluid and take about one second. My 105lb wife can shoot one of my recurves that is 60lbs@28" and 49lbs at her 24" draw. A 50lb recurve is not any harder to draw than a 50lb compound. HOLDING the recurve is harder, which you shouldn't be doing if you want to shoot fluidly and accurately.

    t2e
     
  15. MCgunner

    MCgunner Member

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    Well, I cheat, I have a sight on mine. I never did get that great at instinctive shooting. I do shoot the recurve like that, quick draw and fire soon as I'm on target, but it's not very practical to hunt that way. You draw when the deer isn't in position to see you move, you hold while he moves into position for the shot. You might have to hold that draw for 10 or 20 seconds. I can do that with a compound, but not so much with a recurve. That and the slow arrow speeds and greater drop are what make recurves especially tough to hunt with. Me, I'll cheat. :D I guess I ain't a man.

    Now, you might get lucky and get the deer looking elsewhere while he's in position and you can make the draw without getting a white tail in your face with a loud snort, but that's if you get lucky.

    I suppose you could hunt from one of those little tent blinds, would conceal you better. But deer are going to see movement, especially inside recurve range.

    But, what I was thinkin' about was more the effort on Dr. Tad's shoulder than technique for firing a recurve. I just seem to put out more effort drawing my recurve than I do my compound because the 60 lb part of the draw is in the first part when I seem to have more leverage on the bow/string with my arm. Once the cams break, it's budda. :D My own bow, I can crank down as low as 45 lbs and full draw can't be much worse than 25 at that point. It'd still kill a deer, but you might need a lot of pins on your sight with a lot of adjustment range. Also, would likely keep you inside 30 yards to be effective. But, I prefer to get that close anyway. I'm okay with a bow, but I ain't a competition class shooter at this point. Man's got to know his limitations.

    There's no need to make Dr. Tad feel any worse. ROFL! :D
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2009
  16. Fractal X

    Fractal X Member

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    Dr. Winslow, I would definitely go to the doctor and find out what your options are.

    Some years ago my brother had his shoulder dislocated in a high school wrestling match and it turned into a recurring problem (it had a habit of falling out every 6-8 months when least expected). Long story short, he had a shoulder surgery that tightened the tendons in his shoulder (my understanding of it anyhow) and he hasn't had problem with it since. In fact, he went on to join the Army and even with the strain of crawling through mud and jumping out of helicopters he hasn't had any more problems with his shoulder.

    Perhaps there is a similar solution for your shoulder.
     
  17. Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow

    Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow member

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    Excellent, fractal; thanks! And if the doc says "really nothing we can do", then at the end of the meeting say "well, ok, then I need that note to shoot a crossbow please". So wouldn't be a wasted trip.

    But I got right back on the horse yesterday. I have one bow I was able to come out 5 full turns on, and I think it's a 50 lbs or thereabouts (I had thought this new backup bow I bought was also a 60-70, but got to looking and luckily it's only a 50-60!) - I pulled it back several times without a problem. So, since it didn't reinjure in it's injured/weakened state, I think that with some recovery time and staying around 50, this will work out pretty confidently! :) And be plenty of power to take deer. But then what am I gonna do with my 65-75 bow? :( Maybe after a surgery......

    I have a 50 lb recurve; that's worse to hold at full draw.

    Suprised at how many crossbow votes - I'm gonna look into this a bit more; thanks. It would be fun, and obviously give you an advantage not having to draw in the field. BUT, it would feel like cheating to me........
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2009
  18. Shytheed Dumas

    Shytheed Dumas Member

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    The last time I bow hunted was a few years ago when I dislocated my shoulder in a tree stand and couldn't get it back in... at age 36. There must be something wrong with my shoulder joints, because I've had it happen multiple times to each. Anyway, I slipped a little on my climb up and my right shoulder popped out when I caught myself on a branch and went back in when I hit the ground. It hurt a bit, but I wasn't going to pass on a new site and beautiful day, so I climbed back up and settled in after I tried an easy pull and slow release with no problem. A couple of hours later a six pointer walked in to about 20 yards, and I had no problem with the draw. The release was a different story; out it came, and out it stayed.

    I had good enough cell reception to call my friend, who was about 1/8th of a mile away. At 300 lbs, plus, all he could do was let me drop the 10 feet and break my fall. Now, anyone who has ever dislocated a shoulder can tell you it is EXCRUCIATING, but I can tell you it only gets worse when you fall 10 feet onto a big dude and crash to the forest floor.

    Like a fool, I was determined to get my car home, so after walking out I got into my car with the 5 speed manual transmission and drove an hour and a half to my home. To make it worse, my wife and daughter actually laughed when I called them from the interstate and told them the story so they could be ready to take me to the ER. It wasn't so funny when the hospital bill showed up, but at least I had a doctor who was generous with the morphine and adavan while I was in the emergency room.

    I have yet to pull a bow, and am still considering buying a crossbow. You know the pain, and you don't want to experience my story, so that's what I would recommend.
     
  19. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Member

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    I'm not a doctor, but 2-3weeks is not nearly long enough for a tendon/ligament injury to heal. My understanding is that takes 6-8 weeks. I'd see a doctor before doing any more archery.
     
  20. jbkebert

    jbkebert Member

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    Sorry to hear about your misfortune DOC. I was speaking with a buddy of mine this weekend at a local 3-D shoot. I noticed that he was shooting right handed and he has always been a lefty. He to has started having shoulder problems and decided to switch. It doesn't hurt that he owns a archery shop in Topeka. I know it is a big $$ money hit changing everything. Denise however shot a very respectful 342 out of 400 after three months of practice.

    One good thing is since I am left handed I have been buying his leftovers at very good prices. Now I am trying to convience him the Mathews reezen he has is of no use to him and he should sell to me cheap.:D
     
  21. AKElroy

    AKElroy Member

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    My shoulder hurts just reading these accounts. Tad, I can tell you have a passion for this. I hope this gets resolved & you are able to continue your passion. As for me, I am thinking RIFLE.
     
  22. moooose102

    moooose102 Member

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    don't forget to get physical therapy and some strengthening advice so you can keep it from happening again. you will probably never be able to shoot @ 68 #'s again, but if you can get healed correctly, and increase the strength in that area, MAYBE you will not have any more trouble. you may loose this season to heal up right, but in the long run, it may be worth it. if you do continue to have trouble though, the cross bow is probably the way to go.
     
  23. jim in Anchorage

    jim in Anchorage Member

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    Are you kidding me? A excuse to use a crossbow? You hit the jackpot.
     
  24. dagger dog

    dagger dog Member

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    The only difference between a crossbow and a rifle is the BANG! Get your sholder checked out and go back to your recurve.
     
  25. 3pairs12

    3pairs12 Member

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    Where is the update Dr Tad?
     
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