This Ol' Smoke Pole...

[C5rider]

I mentioned to a friend in passing one time, that I'd considered getting a black powder rifle. I currently have an 1851 that I like shooting on occasion.

Well, he drops off a long rifle case and says, "Here! See if you like it before you buy something." I've looked at the gun and I have a few questions.

The main question is, what kind of snap caps does this thing take? Does it use a shotgun-style of snap-cap? There is a little cap that screws over the cup where the cap would fit into and there is a little firing pin in the cap. When the hammer drops, it hits the pin, which in turn would hit the cap. But what cap does it use?

Also, does anyone have an idea how old this gun might be? Here are some photos that may help. The fellow said that it was his dad's, and he's never shot it so he couldn't give much information about it. Any info I receive will be passed on to him, so feel free.

As always, thanks in advance!

 

[mykeal]

Not enough info to date it. Likely made by Jukar for CVA in the 70's.

The nipple adapter is for using 209 shotgun primers.

A good load would be about 70 grains of ffg.

 

[frontiergander]

no its a traditions. The 1:66 twist is a great find on that rifle if the bore is still good.

 

[mykeal]

Here's a photo of the Spanish date and proof code stamping on one of my guns. The date code in this case is the I*2, which is 1989.


Here's the Spanish date code decoder ring:

 

[mykeal]

Ok, likely made by Jukar for Traditions.

 

[C5rider]

Great info!

Thanks guys. I knew that the Spanish used a particular coding for proof dates, I just wasn't sure what they were. Now I know! The proof dating is just under the stock, so I can't get a good look at it without disassembly.

I'm figuring that if I shoot it, it'll be best to take the barrel out of the stock to clean it, right? Then I can check some numbers for sure. I've heard about guys using a vacuum pump to suck hot water up into the barrel to clean them out. Do they just hook onto the nipple threads or ?

I have some FFFG for my 1851, would that be too fine to use in the rifle? Would you change the load any if doing that?

thanks again for the info!

 

[rodwha]

I have two .44/.45 cal pistols, and a .50 cal rifle. I prefer to stock/carry one powder and so I opted for 3F. You do need to reduce the max load by about 10 grns. Can't say for sure your max load may be, but I'd guess it's between 90-110 grns of 3F.

You'll probably want a .490" ball and a patch that's ~.015" thick with some form of lube (cooking oils work).

 

[swathdiver]

CVA called that rifle a "Frontier Rifle" when they sold it. They also had a Frontier Carbine with a 24" barrel. It's in the 1990 catalog but not 1985.

 

[25cschaefer]

The nipple adapter looks just like mine, which uses small pistol primers, and uses an allen wrench in the flash hole to remove/install it.

 

[rodwha]

Where does one get the adaptor that uses small pistol/rifle primers?

 

[Patocazador]

The nipple adapter is a "Flam-in go" if it uses small rifle or small pistol primers. If it uses 209 shotgun primers, it's called a "Mag-spark" available from Warren Outdoors.

The Flam-in-go has been out of production for quite awhile.

 

[mykeal]

I'm figuring that if I shoot it, it'll be best to take the barrel out of the stock to clean it, right? Then I can check some numbers for sure. I've heard about guys using a vacuum pump to suck hot water up into the barrel to clean them out. Do they just hook onto the nipple threads or ?

I have some FFFG for my 1851, would that be too fine to use in the rifle? Would you change the load any if doing that?

rodwha's advice on using fffg is right on the mark.

Regarding cleaning - you need not remove the barrel from the stock, but it will certainly be easier the first few times you clean it if you do. A word of advice: once you remove the barrel take the opportunity to coat the inside surfaces of the stock with Birchwood Casey's Tru-Oil, some boiled linseed oil or tung oil. 3 or 4 coats (just apply it, don't bother to rub it out) and let it dry. This will provide protection from moisture damaging the stock in the future.

The 'vacuum' pump you've heard about isn't actually a separate pump, but rather the action of a good cleaning jag on a ramrod. Get a bucket of water and immerse the breech end in the bucket, deep enough that the nipple hole (with nipple removed) is underwater. Put a cleaning jag of the proper caliber on a rod, place a wet cleaning patch over the muzzle and insert the rod. Run the jag down to the breech and then pull it back to the muzzle - the tight fit of the wet patch around the jag will seal the bore and draw water up into the bore through the nipple hole. You can continue to pump water in and out of the nipple hole, washing out the bore in this manner.

 

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

You have a conversion for "modern" primers there, and it can be hard to judge scale in photos but it looks to small to me to be shotgun 209 primer sized. Take the cup into your local gun shop and I'm sure they can tell you what size primers will fit and hopefully they can supply you some as well.

 

[fogg64]

I have a 'flam-n go' on my traditions and it takes the small rifle primer. Another way to clean the barrel using the 'pumping' action put a rubber or vinyl tubing on the nipple, turn it over(presuming it is on a rest) and put the tubing in a small container of water. Less mess.

 

[C5rider]

Great info guys!

I have some primers in the shed. I'll try and grab some and see how they fit into the adapter and will let you know.