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This widow needs help about consignment problem.

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Erica M., Apr 16, 2012.

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  1. Erica M.

    Erica M. Member

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    Last edited: Apr 17, 2012
  2. TurtlePhish

    TurtlePhish Member

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    If the buyer paid in full already they should have given you your part of the money. Sounds like the shop is screwing around with you. I see no reason for them to hold the money until he picks up the gun.

    Sorry for your loss.

    Welcome to THR.
     
  3. Erica M.

    Erica M. Member

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  4. Rail Driver

    Rail Driver Member

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    I'd explain to the gun shop owner that if you don't get your money PDQ, you'll be consulting an attorney, the BATFE and the police. The way it stands now, the gun shop has essentially stolen your pistol. The police and ATF don't take kindly to things like that.

    (Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer (just a law student), and I don't know where you are or what the laws in your jurisdiction are so my advice is worth what you paid for it.)
     
  5. ApacheCoTodd

    ApacheCoTodd Member

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    What county are you in? Trust me on this... The county attorney's office is your friend on issues, fraud.
    The Sheriff's dept is your friend on issues, theft.

    I want to be VERY clear on this. I am NOT saying that this is or is necessarily bordering on theft but theft is the perspective you want them (the shop) to understand that you may be seeing this from.

    You had an item, they took the item, they sold the item, they received full payment for the item, you have no money for the item. All the weird consignment particulars aside - what do you call that scenario if those weird particulars are not a part of a contract between you and them?
     
  6. Fremmer

    Fremmer Member

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    The lawyer will cost more than the gun is worth.
    give the shop 7 days to complete the transfer or you get the gun back and walk.
    You might be able to salvage the deal yet.

    Teachable moment : raildriver, do you see the problem with this kind of estate asset?
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2012
  7. hogshead

    hogshead Member

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    Sounds like BS to me. They have the money and the gun. They should give you your money. You know they wouldn't return his money to him especially if he has already done the nics check. I would tell them I wanted my money or my gun. If not I was contacting the law and the atf.
     
  8. dprice3844444

    dprice3844444 member

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    go get a cop.got any local news crews you can call and show up with them?or contact your local paper
     
  9. wannabeagunsmith

    wannabeagunsmith Member

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    Tell those fools to give you your money!! After all they put you through I would say they owe you nothing short of a gold plated Desert Eagle.
     
  10. ApacheCoTodd

    ApacheCoTodd Member

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    You don't need a lawyer to get the County Attorney involved. Their consumer affairs representative (or whatever the particular office calls it there) will usually initiate an inquiry by phone if you present them with a letter containing the facts.
     
  11. Erica M.

    Erica M. Member

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    Last edited: Apr 17, 2012
  12. Rail Driver

    Rail Driver Member

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    Actually it shouldn't be too difficult to find a lawyer that will give a free consultation. Either way, she needn't actually consult the lawyer. In many cases the mere threat of involving a lawyer tends to "grease the wheels" so to speak.

    *edit to add, generally when a person wins a lawsuit, legal fees are attached to any settlement negating your argument. If the OP really wants to be litigious and finds a real shark of a lawyer, she could conceivably receive compensation for "special damages to include pain and suffering". - I said I was a law student, didn't say how much legal experience I have ;)

    Personally if it were me in the OP's shoes, I'd salt the deal. The OP will get more out of the pistol selling it privately than consigning it through a shop anyway, though it is a bit more of a hassle and at this point is counterproductive.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2012
  13. Fremmer

    Fremmer Member

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    So call them and tell them the guy has 7 days to pick up the gun or the deal is done and they can refund the money whenever he bothers to show up. He hasn't done the check yet, correct? So ask them to call him and get it done and over with or you'll be back for the gun.
     
  14. Fremmer

    Fremmer Member

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    Lol well she can always get a consult, then. The county attorney or small claims may be next if they keep screwing around. Good luck to the op, what a mess.
     
  15. garymc

    garymc Member

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    So they're claiming they still have the gun? Have you actually laid eyes on it? Be nice and tell them you need to look at it one last time for sentimental reasons. I'd be willing to bet they can't produce the gun.
     
  16. ApacheCoTodd

    ApacheCoTodd Member

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    Another thing EricaM - should this get outa hand as they sometimes can. Be sure you continue as you have and never mention the name of the shop on the internet.
     
  17. RCArms.com

    RCArms.com Member

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    Was there any kind of consignment agreement contract that you signed when you dropped the firearm off for consignment sale.

    Detailed payment information should be contained in that contract as well, specifically hoe long after the date of sale that the shop has to make payment to the consignee.

    In our case, our timeline for payment is 30 days after date of sale to ensure that the firearm made it to its destination and is past our return period.

    Don
     
  18. RhinoDefense

    RhinoDefense Member

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    Rail Driver, this is not an ATF issue. It's a business issue. ATF enforces NFA and GCA, neither of which have been violated according to the OP's statement.

    Having done business with many California FFLs in the past, I'm curious to know whom the dealer is in this situation.
     
  19. Rail Driver

    Rail Driver Member

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    True, the ATF enforces NFA and GCA, but they're also the licensing body for the dealer's FFL. Violations of the law are grounds for revoking an FFL. Stealing a gun is a violation of the law. I'm sure the ATF would like to be notified in the event that a licensee is found to be violating the law. Obviously there is going to be a set of steps that the OP must go through, and notifying the ATF of the (alleged) violation, assuming the dealer does actually refuse to cooperate with the OP and doesn't pay her, would be a logical step AFTER dealing with the police/state's attorney/etc. Dealers have lost their licenses for much less.
     
  20. russ69

    russ69 Member

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    I hope the OP is still around. Welcome to California gun laws. It doesn't look like any of the responses know Ca state laws. The gun shop has to deliver the gun to the new buyer, they have a reasonable time to do that. The DROS is good for 30 days. They have to make an effort to deliver the gun, two 30 day periods is not that unusual. Once they give up on the new buyer, you will have to DROS the gun back to you and wait 10 days. If for some reason you are not allowed to take possession the gun is forfeited to the cops.
    It's a messed up system that just eats up the calender but I don't think they are pulling a fast one. They are trying to close the paperwork before they are stuck with no gun and no money. You can thank Sacramento for this mess.
     
  21. mnrivrat

    mnrivrat Member

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    If they have the money as stated they need to pay the seller. If their policy is to wait until the transaction is completed in totality before paying the seller, than that should have been made clear at the time of consignment. That's why a written consignment is important document - with no such documant you will have to wait. A lesson learned .

    The only legal recourse I see is to look into your states consignment laws .
     
  22. RhinoDefense

    RhinoDefense Member

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    First the FFL has to be proven in a court of law that a violation of law has occurred. Then there is a hearing that deals with the suspension or revocation of the FFL. Then there is generally an appeal hearing. This legal process takes a few months in a "slam dunk" situation.

    There is no theft. The customer engaged in a private business contract agreement. It was not stolen. The FFL is waiting until the buyer receives the firearm to forward money to the owner for the transaction, the transaction doesn't end with receipt of payment from the buyer, it ends when the buyer pays for the item and takes possession of it. Only one of these has occurred. In order to be a stolen item, the item must be taken from the owner by forcible means and intended to permanently deprive said owner of their property or money. This is not the case. The FFL intends to pay the owner of the gun their share when it is paid for and taken into possession by the buyer of said gun.

    Where's the intent to permanently deprive the property owner of their property or money? It's nonexistent. People think everything happens at the snap of their fingers, but that's not how life works.

    Again, the dealer is waiting until the item is picked up by the buyer. That's not illegal and not grounds for revocation of the FFL. Again, the ATF doesn't care and won't give a hoot about this situation. It not their jurisdiction and they will default it to local LE, who may give a hoot.

    They have kept it for much more. Your point?
     
  23. Erica M.

    Erica M. Member

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    Last edited: Apr 17, 2012
  24. bikerdoc

    bikerdoc Moderator Staff Member

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    I cant give Cali advice as my Gun store is in Va. We pay consignment The fri following the sale. Stir up some dust my dear lady.
     
  25. danez71

    danez71 Member

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    Erica

    I think I found your answer... but I'm NOT a lawyer.

    If the buyer hasnt picked it up then then the dealer has to cancel the sale and start over.

    The following is from the CA Attorney Generals web page for FAQ's for Firearms Dealers.

    http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/dlrfaqs

    Question 23


    I made bold the key part as I read it.

    It says the dealer must cancel the sale and send the DOJ a cancellation form.

    At that time you should be able to pull the item from consignment since the sale was cancelled unless your consignment contract with the dealer says he has XX number of days before you can pull it. If thats the case, try raising the price so it wont sell just to pull it from him if you want.


    Try printing out the FAQ from the website so you get the CA Attorney Generals Logo etc on it and bring it into the dealer and show him.

    If he squawks... tell him you're going to have to go directly to the Attorney General.

    Good Luck and I'm sorry for your loss.
     
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