This widow needs help about consignment problem.

[Erica M.]

 

[danez71]

Erica, read my post #26.

You may have been typing yours when I posted mine and didnt see it.

 

[Erica M.]

 

[Erica M.]

 

[lonehunter]

This may have been done already, but has the gun shop actually called the purchaser and told him he needs to pick up the gun for the deal to be complete and the seller to be paid?

The purchaser may not be aware that he is causing a problem by not picking the gun up.

Jeff

 

[coalman]

I have general philosophies dealing in/with business. It's reasonable for the store to follow their policy. This does not mean the policy is reasonable. I'd become clear on what that policy is. If they are following it, all is fair. If not, not. If you don't like the policy, do business elsewhere. Unless there is some rush I'd just leave it with the shop at this point as it does not seem worth the expense to get it back. Consignments are always a waiting game; long or short. It sold once at that price, it will sell again at that price; this time to someone serious about buying it. If the price to get it back and the hassle to deal with a sale elsewhere is worth it, go that route. IMO, you are getting the short end, but that's the way it goes sometimes, especially in an area new to you, but this does not mean it's unjust.

 

[AJMBLAZER]

I know California has an active pro-gun/2nd amendment legal community.

Can any of you Californian's come up with the big group out there's website?

Contact them and see if they know of a local pro-gun/2nd amendment lawyer. Chances are decent there's someone in your neck of the woods.

As stated before many lawyers will do something minor like this for free. I recently had to involve a lawyer in a dispute with the government and the guy charged me a fraction of his normal cost just due to spite for the government's BS. Also, considering your situation, how you came to have the gun, and the murky BS you're going through I'm sure someone would be willing to at least make a phone call on your behalf.

 

[zxcvbob]

calgunsfoundation.org might be able to help.

 

[RCArms.com]

Again, I would be interested in seeing the store's consignment sale agreement (contract). If no contract exists, then it's a verbal contract and it's open to all sorts of different interpretations.

What we are hearing here is one side of the sale from the consignee. What we don't have is the shop's perspective which would likely fill in a lot of the details.

Lesson here is definitely get a contract, read it, and only sign it when it's fully understood.

It sounds like the shop will not make payment to the consignee until the transaction is complete and paid in full from the buyer and that makes perfect business sense. I could be wrong, but it does not sound like the shop is trying to pull a fast one on the consignee.

 

[TurtlePhish]

It sounds like the shop will not make payment to the consignee until the transaction is complete and paid in full from the buyer and that makes perfect business sense. I could be wrong, but it does not sound like the shop is trying to pull a fast one on the consignee.

The gun in question was already paid in full and the shop is refusing to give Erica the money until the purchaser actually comes in and picks up the gun.

 

[danez71]

OK what I think I will do is give the store and the buyer the first 30 days which by my understanding will be up on Friday. I plan on going in to the store and politely see if the gun was picked up and if I can get paid. If they tell me that he has not picked it up yet, I will politely request either to be paid or to get the gun back. I will politely tell them that until I am paid I am the owner of the gun and I am not interested in giving this guy another 30 days.

I don't feel I should have to continue to risk this guy ultimately not picking it up or at best being totally at his mercy as to when I get paid. All this time wasted the gun sits on a shelf in the stores storage room instead of the case where it could have been sold to someone who is going to pick it up in a reasonable amount of time. Sorry my definition of “reasonable” is not 30, 60, or more days. Worst case scenario this goes on for 59 days and he ultimately decides he doesn’t want it. Then what? I get a choice to keep it on consignment or take it back? The gun sat behind a door unable to be purchased by anyone else and I bet I don’t get any part of the restocking fee that will most likely be taken out of this guys refund if he ultimately decides he does not want it after all.

If they insist on giving him any additional time they should assume the risk and pay me off right then. If they say no than I will say they must give me my gun back and refund the guys money OR don't as I really don't care because that transaction is between them and him.

Generally... right.

Go back after the 30 Days. If the buyer hasnt picked it up... Hand him the printed out FAQ from the Attorney Genral site I gave you with #23 highlighted.

Tell him to cancel the sale.. give the guy his money back... send the DOJ the Cancellation form and give you the gun back (after you pay the DROS fees etc of course).

I tend too give people the benefit of the doubt...maybe he just doesnt know.... or this guy may just not want to lose the sale.

If its the later, he'll know you're serious when you hand his the Attorney General info that spells it out for him.

If his store policy is to give the guy another 30 days.. to bad.

Store policy doesnt NOT trump the Attorney General and FAQ #23 seems pretty simple.

 

[russ69]

OP, I know this sucks but it's the way it is. If the buyer paid by credit card and then never picked it up or was unable to pick it up, the credit card company would have the gun store refund his money. If you had been paid, then the gun store is out the gun money, the money they gave to you and it's possible they would even be out the gun because they couldn't DROS it back to you.
Your gun store just isn't good at communication (nothing new there). If it was me, after 30 days were up, I would call every week, talk to the owner and ask if the gun was picked up. After 60 days, I would demand a solution but I would give them some time to get the sale finished. You started in mid March, it's barely been 30 days, give it a chance to complete.
It's also possible he had other guns in dros and needs another 30 days to clear before he can dros again. He may have just bought a gun when he saw yours and has to wait another 30 days just to start another dros. I wouldn't panic yet.

 

[RCArms.com]

The gun in question was already paid in full and the shop is refusing to give Erica the money until the purchaser actually comes in and picks up the gun.

And where is the problem with this?

The transaction is not complete at this point. I would not make payment to the consignee until the gun was paid, picked up, and outside of any return period offered.

This is simple Business 101 stuff.

 

[Rail Driver]

And where is the problem with this?

The transaction is not complete. If the shop pays the consignee and the buyer fails to complete the purchase, what recourse would the shop have at that point.

This is a simple business transaction, nothing more.

I don't know the intricacies of the California gun laws, but here in the free world, that's just the risk of doing business. The buyer paid for the gun, the seller (the OP) should get her money. If the buyer doesn't or cannot complete the purchase then the gun shop becomes the owner of the pistol (after refunding the original buyer his money, less fees) and it's on them to find a new buyer.

 

[BobTheTomato]

In all honesty, you really only have 2 options. You can wait until you either get your money or the gun is released OR you can tell the shop owner that unless you get satisfaction you will walk along the road holding a sign saying "Such and Such shop takes advantge of its customers." (You must be willing to do this if you threaten it) Getting a lawyer will cost far more than the firearm. In the grand scheme of things you should take option 1 and either walk away with the cash or your gun after a few more days and take away some lessons learned.

 

[RCArms.com]

I don't know the intricacies of the California gun laws, but here in the free world, that's just the risk of doing business. The buyer paid for the gun, the seller (the OP) should get her money. If the buyer doesn't or cannot complete the purchase then the gun shop becomes the owner of the pistol (after refunding the original buyer his money, less fees) and it's on them to find a new buyer.

This is why we have a very clear consignment contract that covers the transaction from start to finish and outlines the payment expectations for the consignee. If a consignee expected us to take ownership of the firearm in the event of a failed sale and pay them regardless, I'd politely ask them to take their consignment elsewhere as that's not how we operate.

I find it exceptionally hard to believe that there was no signed contract on this consignment, especially in California.

To handle a sale like this without a signed agreement seems reckless this day and age.

 

[Rail Driver]

This is why we have a very clear consignment contract that covers the transaction from start to finish and outlines the payment expectations for the consignee. If a consignee expected us to take ownership of the firearm in the event of a failed sale and pay them regardless, I'd politely ask them to take their consignment elsewhere as that's not how we operate.

I find it exceptionally hard to believe that there was no signed contract on this consignment, especially in California.

To handle a sale like this without a signed agreement seems reckless this day and age.

I agree that handling any business worth more than pocket money without a signed contract is reckless in this day and age. Did you consider that maybe the dealer didn't sign a contract because he may have intended to do something he knew he shouldn't be doing (ie taking this poor woman's gun and not paying her when it sold)?

 

[Erica M.]

 

[RCArms.com]

I agree that handling any business worth more than pocket money without a signed contract is reckless in this day and age. Did you consider that maybe the dealer didn't sign a contract because he may have intended to do something he knew he shouldn't be doing (ie taking this poor woman's gun and not paying her when it sold)?

That though never entered my mind as I cannot believe that a business would jeopardize their business and licensure over a couple hundred dollars.

Can you imagine the negative press that a shop would get by trying this.


This is looking like a bum's rush to pass judgement on the shop owner doing something bad with only half the facts being presented. I think the folks in Orlando can comment on how well that has worked for them.

If the OP would care to let the shop know of her post here, I think the remaining facts of the matter would be posted by a new member in California pretty quickly.

I think what is happening here is a case of poor communication and the consignee is left confused about the payment timeline on her pistol and the shop owner is likely unaware of this lively thread and is simply operating under their established policy regarding consignment sales.

Maybe I'm wrong......but I'd bet money that I'm right.

 

[Erica M.]

 

[RCArms.com]

Here are the facts as I know them:

1. The buyer purcahsed the gun in March.
2. The store was paid in full by the buyer.
3. The store origianlly gave the buyer 30 days from the day of sale to pick up the gun.
4. I, the consignee, can not get paid until the buyer picks up the gun.
5. If the buyer fails to pick up the gun after 30 days he has to restart the DROS and gets another 30 days to pick up the gun.
6. The origianl 30 days ends at the end of this week.

I plan on giving the buyer until the end of his original 30 days to pick up the gun and for the store to release the funds to me. If the buyer fails to pick up the gun and the store refuses to pay me I will request to terminate the consignment and get the gun back. I feel at that point if the store wants to give the buyer another 30 days they should just pay me off, keep the gun and deal with whatever occurs with the buyer. I think that is more than fair since at the initial consignment agreement it was never stated verbally or in writing that I as the consignor can't get paid until the buyer picks up the gun nor was it ever stated, verbally or in writing, at the initial consignment agreement that the buyer was given up to 60+ days to pick up the gun after it was paid for in full. I feel that it is still my gun untill I get paid for it.

If anyone thinks that is not fair or at least within my right please tell me why.

You entered into a contract with the shop to sell your item. It sounds like they are honoring their side of the contract.

They sold your pistol: Check
They handled payment from buyer: Check
They handled the 4473 ATF paperwork and background check: Check
They handled the DROS or other CA required processes: Check
They delivered your pistol to the buyer during the initial 30-day DROS: PENDING
They completed the transaction with payment to you: OPEN

From the look of it, I think they have handled the transaction opretty well so far. I think patience to allow the contract to reach fufilment would provide a better result that breeching the contract with the shop and asking to cancel the sale and pending DROS. Also, keep in mind that you will incurr a cost of having the pistol transferred back to you as expliained by the shop when you dropped it off to be sold.

FWIW, my recommendation is to let it run it's course and take the payment once the pistol has been picked up.

Keep in mind this was a consignment sale. If you wanted immediate payment, you should have asked if the shop wanted to purchase your pistol directly rather than sell it for you on consignment.

 

[Erica M.]

 

[RCArms.com]

RCARMS as I have stated I will let the original 30 days go by before asking to be paid or the gun back. Because I was not told about nor did I agree to the 30 60 days pick-up stuff I think I am within my rights to get paid or get the gun back. I am not sure why you think I am wrong. If I was informed of that stuff and agreed to it at the onset than yes I should allow the buyer an unlimited time to pick up the gun. Let's say that I follow your advice, how long should I wait before you think the dealer should poop or get off the pot?

You may be better off contacting the shop now to inform them of your intention to terminate the consignment contract after the initial 30-day DROS expires. That way they can make a final attempt to get the buyer to complate the sale. At the very least, it would save them the time, effort, paperwork, and cost of initiating a second DROS for the buyer.

I don't think you are wrong, but I do think that the communication between you and the shop could have been a lot better with regard to explaining the process and voicing your expectations. It sounds like the shop has done everything that you have asked them to do so far, but it's taking a while for the buyer to pick up the pistol and complete that step of the transaction, and that's where it's stalled.

 

[Auctioneer Jim]

As a fellow Californian and new guy to the forum let me suggest Calguns.net and post in the FFLs forum, you WILL get an answer.

Plus there are several attys that frequently post on the forums. Good advice all around over there.


Jim

 

[Erica M.]