Discussion in 'Legal' started by geekWithA.45, Nov 1, 2006.
You win the Preaching To the Choir award.
Thanks for the heads-up, guys. A letter will be in the mailbox within the hour.
For those that prefer the e-mail route, there is a very good site called Planet Feedback (www.planetfeedback.com). They maintain contact information for a variety of different companies and you can forward a complaint, suggestion, or whatever through them. I have had great success in getting issues addressed in the past this way with other companies. I've also sent my two cents on the matter to AMC through Planet Feedback. If I get a response back, I'll post it.
VA Requirements for Conceal and Carry on Private Property:
"Private property when prohibited by the owner of the property, or where posted as prohibited. Violation is a trespass charge and not a firearms violation."
So, the sign would work. However, it's been our experience with VCDL that these signs are sometimes not in keeping with corporate policy. Always ask to speak with the manager, or owner to find out why they have the sign up. Sometimes some education is necessary and an owner changes his mind. Also, a quick phone call, or letter to a corporate office can confirm that the sign is not in keeping with corporate policy and it is to be removed.
I haven't gone to an AMC theater since seeing their sign.
I only go to Harkins, here in Arizona.
I wonder if these folks will now follow the new law and supply me a 'locker' to secure my weapon in? I doubt it. It better be a locker too, I sure as hell am not going to hand my locked and cocked 1911 to a hat check girl.
We will see. I think I may push that enevelope.
All you have to do is thank him for sharing your EXACT goals: The safety and well-being of yourself and your family. This is your common goal.
Then you have to find a way to tell him that his means of getting to this goal are ignorant. Obviously politeness, facts and brevity go a long way here, and thank him again at the end.
One thing to keep in mind:
If they put up a "gunbusters" or small "no guns" sign, that does not conform to state laws, regardless of whether you can 100% legally enter or not, it is STILL an insult. They do not want your business. Please let them know that you'll comply.
I will write since I have an AMC here. I was going to see Borat tonight down in Kent at the AMC. I'll swing by and see if they've got a no-guns sign there tonight.
Here is a snippet of my letter thusfar before I spellcheck and print it out (too long to post the whole thing)
Signs are not legal in PA, an hold no merit, and I have not seen any either, however, I will not go to AMC anymore either. I will also write a letter this week!
I do not believe that I'd ever heard of this theatre chain before now. It is most unlikely that I will patronize any of their outlets now that I have.
As to writing to the corporation, or any of their listed executives, until they see a significant drop-off of their "bottom line", I doubt that such people will pay much attention to comment from mere individuals, even though said individuals might be potential or former customers. Such people as these feel entitled to have their cake while eating it too. In any case, they obviously know better, as their policy appears to proclaim.
Polite comment puts the thing on record, however hitting them where it hurts, in the cash register is likely the only thing that might get their attention, that and perhaps a hellish amount of adverse publicity.
Any updates on this issue? Has anyone recieved any correspondence back? I have not and it's been little over a week. Great customer service!
As to whether or not letter writing has an impact, I'd say that depends on how many people actually take the time to send them a message. IF we get a lot of people taking the time to contact them and let them know we are not going to patronize their business, it might have an impact.
So far, I've only received confirmation that my message went through.
Chieftain asked, "I wonder if these folks will now follow the new law and supply me a 'locker' to secure my weapon in?"
Chieften is referring to an Arizona law that requires public establishments to either allow you to carry, or check your firearm. A little misunderstanding: Another part of the law defines public establishments as state, county, or city government buildings. So that law does not apply to private businesses: AMC can prohibit carry without providing lockers in which to secure your sidearm.
The best places for someone that does not care about the law and wants to harm others and have complete and total assurance of control is where self defense and tools for accomplishing that are banned.
It is no wonder places like schools attract so many gunmen, large places full of people naive and defenseless.
Many colleges and universites are similarly banned from having firearms present. This makes them ripe locations for predators to harvest from.
We however can try to counter this by turning the schools into police states with police and metal detectors and stripping freedom for 'safety'. Those not yet mature enough to defend themselves are thus vulnerable and without freedom with a false sense of security.
While to some extent this may be necessary in schools, do we really want the same circumstances for those that are mature and responsible throughout society?
Unless you want incidents similar to schools where dozens of people are killed and everyone is at the mercy of those that choose to disregard the rule to be defenseless you have to fight even the idea that such is acceptable.
We are creating ourselves a police state where we are told the solution is for greater numbers of licensed peace officers to police us. More taxes then are spent to create higher levels of privacy violations without really protecting us from harm, simply a faster response after the fact. This path inevitably leads to a society where the individual has few rights in order to be 'safe' while having government grow and use most of our tax $ to finance policing instead of improving our lives or letting us spend the money to do so.
Freedom is not safety, people throughout generations didn't come to America to be 'safe'. They came to be free and enjoy the philosophy that living free is better than living enslaved.
I would much rather live where a psyco can hurt one before people react and stop him, than where he can hurt dozens while police watch it on security cameras, and start heading to the scene. If you really think a police state is the safest place to live then why are prisons (that cost per capita more than a society could afford for the masses) dangerous even though they have few rights and are always watched? Is that the ideal society? Liberals seem to think so, I mean they get free food, medical coverage, and housing while working as slave labor.
Allow men and women to be housed together and raise a family in a prison setting and you have the ideal liberal society! Few rights for safety of all, constant surveliance, no weapons allowed which requires constant searching of everyone...Of course the strong will walk over the weak but they will be recorded on video doing it! The safest people are the criminals with the most disregard for the rules and the best connections. The state would have direct and complete control over all education and knowledge. They can exploit and use the population as seen fit. But don't worry you would be safe because they say so. Of course this means the only aspiration of anyone that wants to be anything in the ensuing corruption is a police officer. Want a piece of the corruption pie and you have to be part of or control the authority. So then the only pro self defense crowd is corrupt LEOs and the rest are sheep that victimize eachother.
No thanks I like freedom even if some think it is more dangerous, I know it is no more dangerous and a whole lot more enjoyable.
Not that I dont think this a GREAT cause....
What are the odds that some EXECUTIVE who just approved thousands and thousands of dollars to put up "no ccw" signs is going to reverse that....
on that note, even tho i dont live around that type of theatre, i will be writing them soon. Thanks geek!
as far as getting these letters into the hands of the right people, if the letters are also sent to the local theatre that you will not be supporting i'm sure their manager will let corporate headquarters know his bottom line is suffering.
also, while a few of these letter suggestions have been worthwile, i sometimes think a short note may get as much attention as the person reading the mail (doubtfull that it will be the ceo) is probably scanning the letter for the general idea.
In response to someone looking for the legal notice of other states.
In the state of Oregon a public place is defined as any place or building, privately owned or otherwise that the general public has access to.
A CHL holder may carry a legally concealed handgun in any public place.
In addition public place ALSO means any public or private, school, or college.
IF they have a sign stating no weapons, and you have a CHL IF they find out you are carrying all they can do is ask you to leave. AT that point if you tell them to bug off, you are tresspassing, because at that point whether you have the gun or not, you are not welcomed onto that property, and the fact you are tresspassing WHILE carrying a gun makes it a major felony. So as long as it's not actually against Oregon law(Oregon law is the only law that matters, city local and county laws regarding firearms are null and void according to Oregon pre-emption laws), and as long as nobody sees you packin, go right on ahead, who will know? They will be grateful you disobeyed their sign when you save the lives of 300 movie goers that each give them 60 bucks a night whenever they watch a movie. You just helped save a large chunk of their profit margin. When they bitch you saved lives agsinst their policy, bring up how you saved their profit margin and theyw ill change their tune.
Remember, to get these people where it counts you have to get them in the pocketbook. They don't have generally high moral values usually. Their biggest concern is the amount of money int heir wallet and bank account.
"We have put ‘no weapons’ signs up in all of our theaters across America," said Melanie Bell, the vice president of corporate communications for AMC. "We believe the movie theater is a place for families, and so we’re asking people not to bring weapons inside."
Apparently the employees at the AMC theaters in the Great Lakes Crossing in Auburn Hills, Michigan haven't gotten Ms. Bell's notice.
The mall isn't posted, nor is the theatre. The wife and I watched the new James Bond movie, "Casino Royale". The movie was great and I never had to draw my pistol.
I'll check here in Indy. "Nationwide policies" on guns generally don't seem to apply here. It could be the stream of people turning around at the door having an effect.
I have never seen a sign in the Silverdale, WA AMC theatre I go to quite often. I always have my P3AT in my pocket. Hell, even if there is a sign, and I read it, I would ignore it. Saying "No Packing" in a theatre is like saying "Theatre Food Only". Bottom line? AMC isn't going to frisk every person that walks in with a lump in thier pocket. So, really, who cares?
For me, it's the principle.
"Coloreds sit in back" would net the same result in my mind.
I couldn't agree more with that sentiment. It is a matter of principle - if they don't want me, I won't go (and they've got lots of competition, direct and indirect). However, I'd like to have the option of going to the movies, as I have for most of my life, without being insulted by implication, attacked without being allowed to defend myself effectively, or both.
I haven't personally been to the local AMC (or any moviehouse) in a while, mainly because going to the movies with She-Who-Must-Be-Obeyed costs about $50 (between the movie, snack & drink and the babysitter), vs. about $4 to rent a video or do PPV via cable. Oh, and I can stop the movie to go to a clean bathroom, or get a generous refill of soda or popcorn (or beer, for that matter, which isn't available at any theater) for nothing and no line. Oh, and I know that my car will still be in the garage when the movie is over, unkeyed.
Nonetheless, I'll take the time to write to several of these folks in the next several days. Some of the letters posted have been EXCELLENT, and I'll not only use the format, ideas and words posted here in my letters to AMC, but also to a local Jewish Community Center that is posted with the correct 30.06 sign.
I would not mention, however, that their sign is wrong. Save that for those who need it
funny i read this just now. im in CA visiting the family for a few days and didn't see any "no guns" sign at the AMC movie theater that i had just went to on Wednesday 12/20 here in the Bay Area. oh well.
They may figure no one in the Bay Area has guns, so why scare anyone with that horrible picture of a gun...
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