Quantcast

Thumper Revisited - Magazine eject

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by alfsauve, Sep 13, 2018.

  1. alfsauve

    alfsauve Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2008
    Messages:
    127
    Location:
    N. GA
    I couldn't add on to one of the older Thumper threads, so here's a new one.

    It dawned on me that my .458 Socom meets some of Cooper's criteria for a Thumper.

    What I hadn't seen discussed before was his idea that when the gun chambered the last round the magazine would partially eject letting you know that you were down to the one round.

    Anyone seen such an animal?
     
  2. Browning

    Browning Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2007
    Messages:
    1,829
    Location:
    DFW - TX
    No, I haven't seen that. (Partially ejecting the mag)

    If my memory serves me correctly didn't he say something in 'To Ride, Shoot Straight And Speak The Truth' that it should have a flashing red light or something to that effect?
     
  3. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2005
    Messages:
    15,686
    Location:
    Elbert County, CO
    With all due respect to Col. Cooper, and assuming he actually said it, that's the kind of idea someone who has never designed hard use machines comes up with. When you start trying to incorporate features like that requiring delicate little parts in place of an otherwise robust retention system, you get problems. And mechanical complexity aside, the idea that someone in a gunfight would notice a fairly subtle thing like a magazine sticking out a tad farther than normal is pretty silly, especially on a rifle that already has a protruding mag. Think about it; would you even notice your AR's 30 round mag dropping down 1/2" (or even inch) while shooting at the range, where your focus is on the weapon and shooting for fun, not on trying to avoid being shot in a dynamic, high-stress situation?
     
  4. alfsauve

    alfsauve Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2008
    Messages:
    127
    Location:
    N. GA
    I agree on the fragility issue and on whether it would actually be all that useful. But I'm still curious whether anyone has tried this.

    To Ride, Shoot Straight, and Speak the Truth, 2005 edition, page 185, 1st paragraph.

     
    Browning likes this.
  5. Mosin Bubba

    Mosin Bubba Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2012
    Messages:
    832
    Cooper had some very good ideas and some very strange ideas, and the problem was that he was fanatically committed to both.

    Having a magazine somehow stick halfway down when the last bullet is chambered definitely falls under part B. I don't look at my magazines while I'm shooting - how about you guys?
     
    cheygriz likes this.
  6. LoonWulf

    LoonWulf Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2010
    Messages:
    6,340
    Location:
    Hawaii
    Could just go with a CK that drops the mag when it runs empty and Chambers the next round upon insertion of a fresh mag.

    Friend of mine has one, I haven't played with it at all yet tho.
     
  7. alfsauve

    alfsauve Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2008
    Messages:
    127
    Location:
    N. GA
    I don't always cotton to all of Cooper's ideas either. I was curious to see if anyone had actually done this.

    I'm not anticipating participating in any close quarters battles, but this might, and I said MIGHT, be handy when afield after game, like hogs. If it were available as a drop-in (pun intended) piece to an existing AR lower I might want to at least give it a try.

    I'll have to get out one of my lowers and stare at it long and hard, while consuming appropriate beverage to see if something bright idea strikes.
     
  8. desidog

    desidog Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2008
    Messages:
    2,397
    The closest thing i can think of is the clip in an Italian Carcano; when the last round is loaded the clip falls out the bottom.
     
    Kendal Black likes this.
  9. adcoch1

    adcoch1 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2015
    Messages:
    1,429
    Location:
    Centralia Washington
    This is what I think of too. A dangerous game rifle with this feature might be nice...

    I must admit though, in a bolt gun with detachable mags, that a floor plate bolt stop does the trick nicely to let you know you're empty.
     
  10. kBob

    kBob Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2006
    Messages:
    5,030
    Location:
    North Central Florida
    He wanted a built in system for a bolt action hunting rifle that would allow him to easily access a round or three to top off with that was not ugly or in the way. A mutual friend sent him a couple of ideas I had and he did not like them....so I suggested magic.

    I wish I had been able to spend time with him. Whatever folks feel about him he was one of the late greats.

    -kBob
     
    alfsauve, adcoch1 and LoonWulf like this.
  11. kozak6

    kozak6 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2011
    Messages:
    1,151
    Location:
    Arizona
    I think there are some gun gamer accessories that automatically eject empty magazines. Get one of those, increase friction in the magwell or invent a partial detent, and you are in business.

    The only problem is that it doesn't sound particularly useful. You'd never ever notice the magazine jump down a little unless your shooting position results in a hand on it (which would be obscenely unfashionable in the age of the "hold the weenie" grip). And then it would slow down reloads since you'd probably need to manually yank the magazine out of the gun.
     
  12. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2016
    Messages:
    3,990
    I’m in agreement with the sentiment - “Cooper had some great ideas, and some stupid ones, but was equally dedicated to both.” The magazine partial eject is a stupid idea. It’s effectively a jam - the magazine serves no further purpose except to force the shooter to manipulate and correct the condition before proceeding to fire. A full eject, I can get on board with, in certain circumstances - but ONLY in a bolt gun, where the bolt must be manually operated no matter what. A mag eject in a semiauto, again, is effectively a failure to fire or a failure to feed, such the shooter has to manipulate the action to continue to fire after they fire that last shot and the action closes on an empty chamber.

    What I DO appreciate in a rifle, is the ability to drop rounds in the port, or even load rounds into the mag if so desired. A 700 style action cut for AW mags is so capable. AW mags also offer a bolt stop so the shooter won’t run dry. It’s easily disabled if the shooter prefers to drop one but not push it down into the mag, but in some circumstances, having the follower block the bolt, indicating empty, is very nice.
     
    chicharrones and LoonWulf like this.
  13. rodregier

    rodregier Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2007
    Messages:
    1,755
    Location:
    Halifax,NS Canada
    Looking beyond the mech tech Col. Cooper was proposing, we could make a reliable electronic
    indicators of ammunition exhaustion. However, that does add parts and a battery requirement
    independent of any electro-optical sight. Not a happy encumbrance of a military weapon design.
     
  14. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    23,990
    I agree that partial ejection of an empty magazine would serve no purpose I can tell.

    On the other hand, a box magazine cheap enough to completely eject and discard like the en-bloc clip of a Mannlicher or Garand would be a help in sustained fire.
     
  15. JONWILL

    JONWILL Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2017
    Messages:
    478
    Your response reminded me of reading about the adoption of the M-14. There was an argument at one point about the enbloc clip vs a magazine
    Each had its benefits.
    The argument for the enbloc over the magazine was that the ammo in enbloc clips could be dropped in ready to stick in a rifle. The magazine on the other hand had to be loaded from loose rounds. Concern was long term weakening of the magazine spring
     
  16. jeepnik
    • Contributing Member

    jeepnik Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,841
    Location:
    SoCal
    45/70 definition of a Thumper
    RvyHwmo.jpg
    Large caliber, heavy bullets, reloadable on the fly and reliable functioning.
     
    adcoch1 and DannyLandrum like this.
  17. kBob

    kBob Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2006
    Messages:
    5,030
    Location:
    North Central Florida
    jonwill,

    The M14 had a stripper clip guide that allowed the use of 1903 like "Mauser" stripper clips to load a magazine in the rifle. Ammo to Infantry units was in bandoleers just like the M1 clip bandoleers with each pocket holding two five round stripper clips instead of one eight round in block. Each bandoleer also contained one "spoon" magazine loader that slipped over the back of the mag and held a stripper clip for loading individual mags off the rifle, just like with the M16A1 and its strippers.

    I think the only time most of us loaded "loose rounds" in the M14 in service was when loading blanks from 20 round boxes or Match Ammo in a competition from the cardboard boxes as well. Some of us even risked trouble by saving a few stripper clips and then on field problems where only a single magazine had been issued but two or three 20 round cardboard boxes of blanks, loaded used strippers with blanks for easier and quicker loading.

    With a partially empty M14 one could pull back the bolt and lock it (and eject one live round) then top off with stripper clips on the gun. Not something one could do with an enblock clip fed M1.

    -kBob
     
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice