Time to get a wolf gun.

Status
Not open for further replies.
here in NE British Columbia wolf populations have exploded, although there is open season all year with some restrictions, few are killed by hunters,an overpopulation of wolves is having a very negative effect on moose, elk, caribou, wild sheep and deer ,Government wolf reduction is on standby because of general public attitudes(The Disney Concept) that wolves can get along in nature without wolf numbers control programs, not true!

I will include a couple pictures of some "good wolves",,,,,,,,,,,,,,
 

Attachments

  • P1010886 (600x398).jpg
    P1010886 (600x398).jpg
    56.7 KB · Views: 32
  • P1020004 (600x398).jpg
    P1020004 (600x398).jpg
    66.9 KB · Views: 37
  • P1010661 (300x225).jpg
    P1010661 (300x225).jpg
    32.3 KB · Views: 33
The wolves were here loooooong before we were. I think the attitude of "they don't deserve to be here" is the same attitude of "manifest destiny". These people/animals don't fit my idea of what this land should be like or about, so let's kill 'em by any means necessary. Let's start with some nice smallpox-infested blankets...

Don't get me wrong. I'm far from being a tree hugger. I'm actually a life-long hunter and shooter, which means I've killed many an animal....but always humanely and quickly...even rats.

When people say asinine statements like "In my world the only good wolf or coyote is a dead one.
Therefore I will use whatever I have at hand to kill them even if it's not the most effective and causes them to run off and die a miserable death days later.
Clean and ethical kills are for animals I respect."

...it makes me want to post disclaimers stating, "...this person's views do not in any way represent those of the hunting/shooting community-at-large".

If the wolves need to be culled for their own good or the good of the prey species, fine. I'm all for that. However, for God's sake, do it right...do it humanely. Do it in a way that shows you are more advanced than the animals you are culling.
 
Last edited:
FreedomFighter: I admit I'm from the city of St.Louis and have never even seen a wolf in the wild. I never said that hunting a wolf is wrong, I'm not on expert on the problem with livestock and such, but if they need to be controlled so be it.

Yet you said I was spewing ignorance. I think that you don't have to be an expert on wolves to know it is wrong to wish an inhumane death upon an animal. It is also absurd to hate something based on it's nature.

Just to clarify once more
Wolf hunting=OKAY
Wishing them to suffer=Wrong
Yeah, I don't object to the hunting. I just don't think it's ethical or humane to torture any animal, especially if they're doing what comes natural. Besides, man's greatest friend would not exist were it not for the wolf.

Let's not do the macho, sadistic view of animals who are only doing what they do because it's in their nature. Besides, we moved in on their habitat.

These type of comments only help the anti-gunner movement. Grow up, fellas!
 
Last edited:
Before you pipe up and spew your own brands of ignorance about a subject, bone up on some facts please. Those of us in the real world that actually DO have experience with these animals may just know quite a bit more than you guys reading animal digest for your knowledge base.

Ha ha! I live in Northern Minnesota and have volunteered at two wolf research centers tracking and tagging them. Its an area of study for me. I'd say that's pretty real world.
 
Ha ha! I live in Northern Minnesota and have volunteered at two wolf research centers tracking and tagging them. Its an area of study for me. I'd say that's pretty real world.



Sure not evidenced by your highly uneducated comments in saying that most of us could not tell the difference between Wolf and feral dog tracks. Also not evidenced by your extremely uneducated comments alluding that the Wolf population does not endanger cattle. Let me educate you there young man. When that pack of yours starts getting low on deer, which will happen in a short period of time, the cattle around you will start experiencing Wolves in all of their glory. I do not, nor would I ever, advocate extermination of a species (except wild hogs but thats a different subject all together) but I do advocate the CONTROL of Wolves as I have seen first hand the damage that they pose if left unchecked. Just take a look at Wyoming, Montana, and Idaho's Elk population since the Wolf was reintroduced! One thing about math, it can not lie!
 
For those who don't think wolves are a problem for ranchers, consider that the original reason for eradication was their depredation upon the cattle herds in the early years of northern-state ranching in the west. Remember, the buffalo were replaced by cows--as well as sheep.

Livestock losses in New Mexico are well established, as noted in quite a few articles at http://www.rangemagazine.com. Check the archives. Quite a few first-hand reports.

Regardless of hunting or not hunting, "balance" or eradication, the restoration of wolves is a feel-good deal. Wolves or grizzly bears, they are not needed for us to survive as a species--with plenty of meat for us to eat as well as our having wool sweaters and leather belts and shoes. If people are going to impose their own notions of righteousness upon others, they bear the responsibility for the problems they cause.

In the meantime, I'd suggest a bit more cartridge than a .223. :)
 
Here in Alaska, there are plenty of Wolves, Game and few people.

The southern 49 is not in a natural balance at all. Herd animals such as elk, Buffaloe and such were decimated years ago with Fences, loss of habitat and cattle/pigs competeing in that habitat.
Wolves do not decimate herds, people do by taking over lands and "Man-ageing things to our emotions and belifes.

If left alone in a natural world, there is always a balance struggle, but we as Humans, being top predators often see wolves as compitition.
Poor Hunters often find a reason for their lack of sucess, and blaming Wolves is getting popular.
Try blaming people for taking up habitat and installing competitive animals that we value as $$ and it gets bad. A deer eaten by Wolves go's un-noticed, but a Cattle is rightaway.

Here in the Arctcic The wolves and their pray are and have been in balance, what you see down south is NOT a balance, and if man keeps interfearing, it never will be.

Hunt Wolves, Hunt Deer, Hunt Elk, be sure to the predator you are and respect them for the predator they are .

Look at he game populations since europeans came over, first decimating the East of Buffaloe, then the plains, the they worked out The Wolves and the naturall balance went to ****.

Imagin if 60,000,000 Buffaloe were reintroduced? Then the Wolves would be at their natural food source, herd animals.

No, we managaed the Buffaloe nearly outta existance. Fact is man has screwd it up, not The Wolves.
 
Last edited:
Fact is man has screwd it up, not The Wolves.

That I agree with, but for man to attempt to "restore" the balance that was is folly at best. There is no longer a place for the wolf in the lower 48 as far as I'm concerned and animals like cattle, sheep, elk, and deer have a place far above the wolf in my book.

Biker
 
the Island Province of Newfoundland Canada has 0 wolves and moose populations are incredible, about 150,000 moose ! and in spite of very generous tag allotments(30,000) per year, the moose population thrives,,, NO wolves in Newfoundland ! hmmm??

how about NewZealand ? NO wolves there !, but ungulate populations thrive to the point, Wildlife Land Managers resort to poisoning ungulates to curb ungulate populations, residents hunt as many ungulates in most regions of NewZealand as they wish and tags are basically NO Charge !, again NO Wolves in NewZealand !


here is a picture of carcass of mature cow moose (about 800-900 pounds live weight) less than 12 hours after a 6 pack of timber wolves took her down, not much left!
 

Attachments

  • P1030662 (640x480).jpg
    P1030662 (640x480).jpg
    83.4 KB · Views: 28
ElkdomBC, Caribou is correct to a point. Man is to blame for the problems we have here in the lower 48. Hell, man is to blame for 99.9% of the problems in nature on the whole planet. But you also have to look at it like this, while yes we have caused problems in nature, we can at least TRY to make up for it and try to adjust the populations of animals that we do still have and keep their environment healthy by keeping them in numbers that the current environment will sustain. Wolves used to be natures balancing tool and were damn good at their jobs. BUT since we have already decimated most of the Wolves natural prey, it is just not feasible to reintroduce this killing machine to areas that will not truly sustain it's predatory nature. By it's very nature, it will turn to our cattle which makes for an easy prey. Wolves up in Alaska have MUCH more territory, MUCH more game to hunt, and, if you think about it, there really isn't anything else that they need. You don't have cattle grazing in Alaska to worry about. Nature is MUCH more in balance up there and thankfully it's one place man has not completely screwed up. But comparing Wolf populations of Alaska to the lower 48 is like apples to oranges. Completely different areas and no comparison can truly be used. HOPEFULLY it will remain so and man will not completely hack that wonderful place up like he has everywhere else.
 
ive heard the inuit used to freeze blood on a razor blade attached to a stake and the wolf will lick the blood then cut its tongue and keep licking its own blood and die
not advocating this practise but if they needed wolves dead that bad maybe they are bad crittters
 
Eskimo valued the furs of Wolves for their propertys in below Zero weather. Ice will not stick to Wolf, Wolverine or Polar Bear fur. Such is used as a trim on fur garmets because the edges are where sweat vapors are emerging into the cold and freezing to fur, and brushed off easily. If the Warm Caribou hide has ice on its hairs, they must be thawed or pulled out. Thats why Wolf pants and Mukluks were desirable, so a man could sit and not "stick' to the ice while waiting for a Seal and such. Light weight skins to boot.

My Fatherinlaw used "Whale bone traps" , long , folded and tied with sinew, sharpend at both ends. Bowhead Whale Baleen was made into such and frozen into a chunk of meat , and apon digestion would unfold and straighten, peircing organs and killing the Wolf, Fox, polar Bear fairly quickly , and tracking these animals down was the way of the day. He did this on Kobuk River , Kotzebue sound and up along the Beufort sea when he was young.
There are no Old Inupiaq Eskimo stories about wolf attacks , except against Dog teams. A fire or an alert man would easily scare the Wolves away. The Father in law said Wolves were never a problem for him, unless he was trying to hunt them, then they were too smart :D...He was better a trapper than a wolf shooter. For him, the big deal was Ferral dogs, "The Ultimate disaster" who would go to camps and attack people and eat them and other dogs. If wolves were forming up on a man travling by Dog team, hed drop of and wait, letting his wife carry on. Often you wait untill they are 50 or less feet away before shooting the rear most ones, but you have to be ver still and lying straight on tawrd them, looking small. Good shots are right where the hole allready is under the tail on the Wolf running away from you ~~LOL!!~~

I do belive that unnatural reintroduction isnt very smart.
 
I wonder how many understand the missions of the various land management agencies when they start complaining about wolves.

A popular example is the re-introduction of wolves to Yellowstone National Park. The National Park Service has a mission to preserve the natural state of things as best they can while providing for access by the public to experience the natural wonders of nature, for generations to come. The NPS does not exist to provide breeding grounds so hunters have unlimited amounts of deer and elk to take to the slaughterhouse. They are attempting to restore natural populations within the parks as closely as they can to what was there before European expansion and settlement.

I don't see how anyone can complain about the wolf, elk and deer populations in a National Park, by and large there's no hunting within National Parks anyway. (Preserves and rec areas are managed differently.) And any wolf on private property outside a park is pretty much fair game.

People like to say that wolves and coyotes will eat all the elk and deer. Funny, wolves, coyotes, elk, moose, deer and everything else maintained a decent ebb and flow balance for eons before our interventionism took over. Wolf populations are likely to increase while other populations decrease, then the trend will reverse. Over time (not just a couple years here, over a longer time) a balance will be seen.

Flipside example; I worked for a brief period in CO with the US Forest Service. I heard a fair bit of talk about folks complaining that Aspen was losing all its Aspen trees (in general CO's Aspens are in a poor state of affairs). There's a couple reasons for that, one of which is that there's so many elk in CO they nip all the seedlings before they can mature into trees to replace the old trees that are dying . But elk hunting is a big draw and money game for the state, so people would bitch if they lowered elk tag prices and took out a significant chunk of the population. No-win situation there.

So adding wolves to the mix could help restore a more natural balance and also benefit the forest lands. But wolves will kill all the elk, but we want our forests to maintain a balance, but we want to eradicate wildfire completely, etc. Guess what, you can't have it all. Appropriate and effective management utilizes all available resources, natural and man-made, including original species.

Frankly, if there's more wolves here maybe we'll have less deer road kill and lower insurance premiums. MN born and raised I'd say probably about half the people I know have hit a deer at some point.

Really I don't care if people want to hunt wolves. Do it. We hunt everything else. But to say that they deserve to die horrible deaths and have no business here is truly ignorant. It's like the people in the new subdivisions complaining about the coyotes killing pet Fufu, which they let run loose in coyote habitat.

In the end it's all a money game, and I think that's a shame. People don't want competition because there's money to be made in ranching every inch of land, farming every inch of land, bulldozing and developing every inch of land, and hunting every inch of land. Then people want their children to be able to go someplace to understand what nature was like before we screwed it up. But don't put all the native animals back on that educational land, we don't want our kids to know there used to be wolves and coyotes here. :rolleyes:
 
No, Memphisjim, I havent heard of such around here on the Alaskan NW side.
Myself, I think a Wolf would balk at the slightest sting in the tounge, thay do , after all crunch bones and deal with them for a living.
prehaps razor sharp "whalebone traps" where the baleen stabs the throat, stomach, wherever it opens is the reference, They would , indeed , swallow their own blood in such a case.
 
I don't base my opinions on what i read on the net, or what i saw in a book, OR what i saw on the disney channel.

I lived in Alaska for 25 years, and not in town either... I've seen what wolves can do, and what they are like.

I've seen wolves kill caribou after caribou in the artic. Kill them, and run after the caribou herd, killing another and another... WAY more than they could/did eat.

I've seen them pull down a cow moose, rip her belly open, pulling the unborn calf out of her, eating SOME of the calf, and leaving the cow to bleed to death! (how's that for a painful death?)

AND YOU GUYS are worried about a wolf not having a painful death????

You guys need to live with them for years, like i did! Perhaps you would have some "first hand" info on wolves, instead of what you read/saw on TV/was told/ or dreamed!

Our forfathers had it right the first time!

DM
 
I have seen wolves eating the moose calves as the cow moose was giving birth, and found evidence of the same on domestic cattle.

my neighbor, has lost 18 mature head of cattle to wolves, out of 200 cattle in his pasture this fall,


we will continue to shoot as many as possibly can, poisoning is not allowed by law, the cattle association has bounty of $100 per dead wolf head,

a local woman suggested that we live trap these wolves and sterilize them,,,??? ***?
that pretty much demonstrates the mentality of the average "wolf-hugger" :banghead:
 
average_shooter, your points are valid and understandable. One problem I have with them though, is you spoke of the reintroduction of Wolves in Yellowstone and why we would have a problem with that since it's a national park. Well, here's the problem. They didn't STAY in that national park! Yes we have screwed up the natural order of things and yes it's partially about money and land. Hell it's MOSTLY about those 2 things. Thing is, man has changed the natural order of things to better suit his needs and wants. Cattle farming is this nations primary meat source. Now, what do you think a Wolf is going to go for, a hard to catch white-tail or Elk,,, or a nice easy fat cow? They are VERY opportunistic and will always choose the easy meal over the hard one. Typically they are very shy creatures and a good couple of herd dogs will be able to protect cattle herds. BUT, once their natural source of food is limited, I.E. Deer or Elk, them herd dogs will be killed quicker than you can blink and you will start losing cattle. It's that simple.

Wolf reintroduction into areas where cattle farming is the number one source of income is just retarded to say the least. These are the same morons that thought the reintroduction of Coyotes was a good idea. Look how that turned out! Wolves are an Apex Predator. Nothing on this continent will mess with a pack of Wolves. Not even a Brown Bear. Reintroduction of them into populated lands is just simply idiotic, foolish, retarded, short sited and whatever else you want to call it.
 
Well, here's the problem. They didn't STAY in that national park!

Well, like I said, on private property shoot what you want. You can't shoot the elk in the park either, but you can once they leave the park.

As an aside, I've personally witnessed a pack of coyotes taking down a wolf. In Yellowstone National Park. So saying nothing messes with wolves is bogus.

"Short sighted" is hunting animals to near extinction in the first place. If we had been smart 200-300 years ago we would have domesticated the buffalo, leaner meat, locally available and easier on resources.

Many issues resource management agencies run into stem from the attitude that, "This is the way it's been done for years / decades / generations." Well, times change. The farmer that didn't change with the times is now sitting on a plot of burned out topsoil that won't grow anything but cacti. Or more likely, the property became bank-owned.

Reintroduction of them into populated lands is just simply idiotic, foolish, retarded, short sited and whatever else you want to call it.

As far as I'm aware, they've never been introduced into populated areas. If they had been I'm positive they would have been shot right away, legally or otherwise. And I would be really hard-pressed to see how you consider Yellowstone NP and the surrounding area "populated." Could you even find an area less populated? Wyoming and Montana have the fewest people per square mile, excluding Alaska. It's not like they released a breeding pack of wolves in downtown Boston, though that might be a fun experiment...

I'll probably never understand the wolf debate. As best as I can tell it's always been legal to shoot anything harassing your livestock. If you want to set snares around the pens, go for it. I'm not saying a wolf should never die. But again, to call for extermination is really short-sighted.
 
Human population low, cattle farms HIGH. Lots of beef is raised in the Montana and Wyoming territories. I, and most others, call that populated. And as far as your statement about domesticating "Bison", if we domesticated it, it's naturally leaner nature would disappear quickly. Wild game is generally leaner because of it being wild. Proof is, go to the store and get you some of that farm raised Bison. You will see a higher fat content in it than you would from a wild Bison.

Man is a stupid, short sighted, and selfish creature no doubts about that. We have generally ruined the Earth and all of her majestic qualities. Soon enough, old mother nature will say enough and shake the fleas known as man from her back and correct the problems we have created. Until then, all we can do is TRY to correct some of our mistakes. Reintroducing the Wolf would be fine for natures rules but for mans rules, it just doesn't click. Plain and simple.
 
Until then, all we can do is TRY to correct some of our mistakes. Reintroducing the Wolf would be fine for natures rules but for mans rules, it just doesn't click.

See, this is what I really don't understand. Your two sentences there seem to completely contradict one another. I do not understand how you rationalize that.

Of course, I believe what I believe, and you believe what you believe, and I understand we're not going to succeed in changing opinions. But if we're going to try to correct our past mistakes, there's not much point in going at it half-assed.
 
It's simple average. We have dominated the Earth and screwed it up. But the fact is, no matter how hard we try, we can never completely undo all the damage we have done. Not as long as humans inhabit the earth now. SOME damage we could fix, but most damage is irreversible as long as we are alive and rely on our technology for comforts. So, with that in mind, think about it. We can not fix most things by natures rules because as long as we exist and advance, natures rules do not fit OUR rules. So we have to fix things to a degree that is acceptable by us and OUR rules. Introducing the Wolf with the already dwindling Elk populations is basically the same as putting a live grenade into a bunker. It's going to get messy and everything is going to die. Wolves, by their very nature, seek and destroy. It's what they were designed by nature to do. Period.
 
Could you even find an area less populated? Wyoming and Montana have the fewest people per square mile, excluding Alaska. It's not like they released a breeding pack of wolves in downtown Boston, though that might be a fun experiment...

Have you been in the Yellowstone area? Ever? Know how many people live here, travel here, hunt here? There are over 300 million people here in the US, it's not the 1820's anymore, just fyi. Grizzlies and wolves don't do well with people, and know what we have a lot of in the US? Oh yeah, people.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top