Time to get a wolf gun.

[average_shooter]

Have you been in the Yellowstone area? Ever?

That's funny, yes I have been there. Multiple times. I've been to many national parks, forests and refuges. And I've seen how well the BLM grows shot up appliances. Having lots of tourists doesn't change the fact that MT and WY are the least populated states in the lower 48.

I work in the natural resources field, so I guess I'm biased. Yeah, I get bitched at by ranchers for doing my job. Apparently eating cold canned soup or MRE's for lunch on a regular basis and a 2001 model year vehicle that I paid roughly half my year's take-home pay for means I'm getting rich off my job.

The NPS does a good job of attracting people to the parks. You know what those people want to see? Because I spent a week in Glacier National Park just a few months ago and about every other person I met on the trail was asking me if I'd seen any Grizzlies or other (mainly predatory) wildlife while they were holding their cameras in hand. They were not asking so they would know where to stay away from, they were asking specifically where they had the best chances of seeing this stuff.

They want to see bears, cats and yes, wolves. They're not there to see the squirrels and chipmunks. Collectively tourists are spending thousands of dollars a day, supporting local economies, spending money in small-town gas stations and hotels, to see the wildlife they don't get to see any other day.

You ever want tourism dollars in your state? National Parks are big draws for domestic and international tourists alike.

I didn't see a single bear or wolf. I did have two deer accost me at a back country campsite because people keep feeding the damn things. I also saw a fox chasing mice behind one of my campsites and came face to face with a cow elk on a trail coming out of the back country. Then there was the bighorn sheep eating shrubs and snorting at the tourists along the trail in the Grinnell Glacier area. All this in an area with a wolf population.

People are paying just as much money for those experiences as they are to shoot elk. (okay, so they don't typically hire expensive guides and outfitters like the hunters do.) The way things have gone with, from what I hear, hunter numbers declining in recent decades, I'd venture to guess more people are scenic tourists than traveling hunters.

Grizzlies and wolves don't do well with people, and know what we have a lot of in the US? Oh yeah, people.

So yeah, every now and then some guy thinks he has become part of the pack and gets himself and his girlfriend eaten by bears. Every now and then a stupid tourist tries to get a picture riding a bison and get his guts strewn across the western states. But if you do not allow for someplace for these animals to be, they've got nowhere.

300 million people in the US, yeah, mostly along the coasts and in the east. There's roughly 6 billion (with a 'B' and nine zeros) people in the world. I guess I don't see where you're going with that. If you want to talk carrying capacity there's plenty of research suggesting humans are at roughly double the planet's carrying capacity for the species.

 

[Art Eatman]

People being able to look at wolves and bears in parks is wonderful. I'm all for it. Just one leetle problem, said Columbo.

Critters don't know where park boundaries are, and so they wander out and go to eating cows, sheep, horses and puppy dogs, just doing what comes naturally.

Those responsible for reintroduction or protection of wolves and grizzly bears don't want to pay for the damage they do. Kinda like not carrying liability insurance on your car. Same sleazoid cheapskate motivation.

So, conflict.

At least a .243, I think oughta work okay. Bigger, I doubt you'd need more than 150 grains of anything.

 

[ArtP]

I can't be absolutely certain of the authenticity of these pictures, specifically where these wolves were taken. But the pictures came from someone I trust very much who says these wolves were taken in Idaho.

What I find spectacular is the size of the heads and attached jaws.

I'd certainly want something more than a 223.

 

[caribou]

My First Wolf was big enough that I could not pick up his floppy slick body and get it up 2 feet and into my sled, so I put a noose round his neck, lifted his head into the sled, tied him down and then lifted the rest of 'em into the basket ~~LOL!!~~
The lower Black Wolf pix looks sceptical, at first, but the different guy holding the same rigurmortised body looks right.

 

[Ben86]

Why. The average wolf isn't even as big as an average mule deer out here. I guess I'd better break out the .416 for wolf hunting, wait, no, I'll opt for something with a little more authority, .600 NE

LOL I know Billy, I guess since they have teeth and weigh over 100 pounds (Actual average weight of over 30 that I've taken has been just over 100 pounds) they think they need a Howitzer to take it down!

I guess we have varying degrees of margin of error, but I still wouldn't feel comfortable hunting wolf with .223. Mainly because of my goal of a quick clean kill for humane reasons, and my wish not to have to track far. They still seem a bit big for .223. I own dogs, (every heard of a Great Pyrenees?), that are large enough for me to want something bigger than .223 if I were hunting them. Not saying it doesn't work, but I just feel like it's a stretch.

 

[Girodin]

I get a kick out of hunters who in one breath talk about the importance of hunting to manage deer, elk, etc populations and in the next breath cry about wolves effectively doing it (so there is less need for people to do it).

I appreciate the strain they can put on ranchers. I have little sympathy for someone complaining about their sport hunting being affected.

 

[Art Eatman]

Girodin, a seriously large number of hunters shoot deer, elk and moose for the meat--so it's an impact beyond "just sport hunting for the sport of it". It's direct competition for food: Just like me'n Ol' Wily for blue quail.

Knowledgeable folks here or at TFL say that a typical wolf pack seems to be around six animals. I'm working on the assumption that a wolf's metabolism is about like that of a cougar; they're about the same size, anyway.

So a pack is gonna do in a couple of deer a week, or an elk a week, as a reasonable basic number. 100 deer or 50 elk in a year, per pack of wolves. Okay, divide six into however many wolves are estimated, and then multiply by the number of deer or elk. That's a reasonable guesstimate on the depredation number. As near as I can tell from behind a keyboard, anyway.

 

[Girodin]

I know a lot of people myself included who eat animals they shoot. I do not know anyone who truly relies on hunting to sustain life. In fact most of my hunting friends spend a good deal more on gear, tags and travel than what it costs to just buy food. I'm certain that there are people in the country who have more of a need for it. I'd imagine they are a minority.

 

[jgiehl]

I love this place, where else can a bunch of people get together and completely dodge a person's question with absolutely no regard as to answer it?
Only a few have actually answered his question. Everybody else is just pissing and moaning.
"I kill wolves any way I can."
Really?
Really?

I'd be utterly ashamed to say something like that. Something is fundamentally wrong with that statement.


And just to finish this post, I know quite a few who have used a 150 grain 30 caliber to do the job with excellent results.
Hope I was of some actual help.

 

[RevGeo]

Just a couple of thoughts from wolf-ravaged North Idaho -
'Man' didn't screw up the earth, civilization did. If we would have remained aborigines we wouldn't have been able to increase our population to the extent we have with the resultant effect on the earth. Personally I think we went wrong with the invention of agriculture.

Next, I think wolves should be in our mountains and hunted (managed) like any other game animal. In the long term I think it would balance out.

Freedom Fighter is correct IMO - the old planet will shake the fleas off and go onto another phase, whatever that may be.

I believe I have discovered the solution to the political problems of this county: CARIBOU FOR PRESIDENT.

And finally, if I go wolf hunting I will undoubtedly carry the same rifle I use to hunt deer, elk, bear and moose - my 31-40 Ackley Improved. If I were to buy a new rifle specifically for wolf hunting I think I'd try to find an old Savage 99 in .250-3000... just because.

 

[Art Eatman]

jgiehl, if you think of a wolf from the standpoint of somebody repelling predation, would you expect concern about "moral and ethical"?

Snakes, chicken-house predators, herd predators: Do you really care about anything other than actual results?

I don't see that effort as being anywhere near what we in modern parlance call "sport hunting", where morals and ethics play a major role. When you're protecting your billfold or your food, all bets are off.

 

[KodiakBeer]

The season on wolves is open in the western states, and the same thing is about to happen across the upper midwest, so go shoot your wolf. An unchecked wolf population is a problem, but now that it's a game animal the problem is over.

Most livestock in the west are on public lands, so those people should just accept the wolves (as they do coyotes) as the price of admission. I do think private landowners should have an exemption and be able to shoot wolves on sight. Wolves are smart enough to learn the lesson and avoid such places.

 

[elkdomBC]

a rancher friend of mine has killed/shot about 20+ wolves near his winter feed lot over the last 3 or 4 years, in around where he keeps his Black Angus cattle ,,,

apparently SOME wolves are taking A LONG TIME learning to avoid "such places",,,,,,,,,,,

 

[redneck2]

FWIW....Deer hunting a couple of weeks ago on our farm in very north central Indiana (South Bend area). Deer come busting out of cover, and a couple hundred yards behind is what appears to be a large coyote. I take a crack at it (full run) with my muzzle loader but just skim over it's head.

A few minutes later a huge "coyote" follows up. This thing has to be 70# plus. Later I tell this to the owner of the LGS. Now, this guy is not a BS'er. Says he shot one that scaled 82#. DNR sent in a hair sample and confirmed his was a wolf. Part of the strain that is in Minnesota. Several others have also been verified.

 

[KodiakBeer]

The "Eastern Coyote":

A study showed that of 100 coyotes collected in Maine, 22 had half or more wolf ancestry, and one was 89% wolf. The large eastern coyotes in Canada are proposed to be actually hybrids of the smaller western coyotes and wolves that met and mated decades ago, as the coyotes moved toward New England from their earlier western ranges.[24] Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources research scientist Brent Patterson has revealed findings that most coyotes in Eastern Ontario are wolf-coyote hybrids and that the Eastern wolves in Algonquin Park are, in general, not interbreeding with coyotes.[30]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coyote

Though coyotes are often mistaken for a domestic dog hybrid, recent genetic research has attributed the eastern coyote's larger size and unique behavioral characteristics to interbreeding with Canadian gray wolves.

http://www.wildlife.state.nh.us/Wildlife/Wildlife_profiles/profile_eastern_coyote.htm

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

Very interesting study there Kodiak. I always just attributed the larger size to more abundant, and easier to hunt, deer in the North Eastern coyotes. More food plus easier to get food usually equals larger sized predators.

 

[caribou]

"a rancher friend of mine has killed/shot about 20+ wolves near his winter feed lot over the last 3 or 4 years, in around where he keeps his Black Angus cattle ,,,

apparently SOME wolves are taking A LONG TIME learning to avoid "such places",,,,,,,,,,,"

That would be 'Flipped' as we say here, or the 'other way around', elkdom, if your Rancher friend has killed the Wolves that arrive to his cattle, theres no learning curve for the Dead, but there is something hanging around "such places" and thats the Cattle that is attracting Wolves to an easy, cant runaway kill.

Now if a repeatedly wounded Wolf kept returning, that would be somthin'........

Wolves "Learn" individually, they do not pass on information to other Wolves that are not visually watching them nor out of howling range.......no internet, no reading/writing, not even a specific vocabulary, they use site, example and scent to comunicate with other Wolves and teach their young.


Wolf Specific rifle? No need if you have a good Deer rifle...... anything at 2,550 FPS, 150grn. .30 cal , and for Wolf Fur, FMJ's ROCK!

 

[elkdomBC]

wolves killed in and around these particular cattle feed lots are only a portion of large numbers of wolves,that move down from the foothills, along with the elk,the moose, and the range cattle,
the wolves we have educated(dead wolves) do seem to exhibit SOME ability to learn not to return !,,, the other wolves that haven't sucked up a 180 gr btsp ,seem to have NO respect for a loud noise or their team mates dropping dead beside them,

oh well, back to loading bench, there is always another day

 

[caribou]

""oh well, back to loading bench, there is always another day ""


Right on! Get some!

The Wolves will always go for the food, especially if they know its not going anywhere, they will return till they do get it.

Loud noises dont seem to bother Arctic wolves, but then again, during cold spells, we have alotta "Crack"ing going on with our surface tension on permafrost, one big crackling ice cube. I will drop a couple Wolves at a kill, and if I've shot the Alpha and Beta, I can always get the young ones that return for the easy feeding with snares and leg holds, but the two oldest wont return, nor the pack If i shoot a couple while they feed.

 

[elkdomBC]

yes caribou; the wolves always go for the food, local domestic cattle start calving here in January and February, easy pick-nik-ins for wolves

my house is about 200 feet from the lake shore, when the ice cracks during very cold weather, the sound is near deafening, shakes the house and ground like an earthquake, the wolves will sometimes stop their howling festival for few minutes after an ice thunder, but are soon back at their howling in minutes,

I agree on the younger wolves being dumb, the mature ones have lots of smarts,

 

[caribou]

Owoooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!

Try Howl them in, if you can. I catch about 1/2 my Wolves here in the Polar dark with a shotgun, 00buck and howeling them in. I like highground above a wide spot inna river. A lake does very nicely too, they will approch from the open.
Wolves are gonna come down and checkout/mate/eat the strange Wolf they think is in their terrritorry.

Howling just like you hear it on a Cartoon, no electronics needed.

When Howling them in , be sure to be intermmitten, too much will make em think twice and hesitate, if they think your not a Lone Wolf.

 

[elkdomBC]

in order to " howl like wolf ",,,,,,,,,,,,,

I have to HIT my thumb with a hammer ! Owooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh !!!