Time to make a plan !

[jakeraney87]

Ladies and gentlemen

This is the place and now is the time. We as a community must stop the violence and as gun owners should be able to provide ideas to prevent such violence. People want to disarm you and gun owners thinking that doing so will only decrease the violence but it will only do the opposite. How ever, some one or several people in this forum has the ear of some one important and now is the time to use that ear, let us provide the base for a plan. Gun owners are willing to compromise but not willing to surrounded that is why you own a gun cause you would rather defend then surrender right? So set up a plan to prevent gun violence. Mitigate what could come down the pipe by meeting the anti gun persons some of the way. They say only ten round mags should be legal guess what, a dedicated person will just carry more mags that it all, that will not stop any of it. Let us start something here and now build a plan refine it then send it up. You can not fight a battle with out ammo and a plan what we need now to provide that ammo. Stay quiet for to long and and it will be to late but start with a mummer then let it grow. Let us establish a plan and send it up to trusted people in high places and let hem use to it further the prevention. Guns don't kill people we all got that how ever if you do not want to be put through a process to get another firearm then set this idea into motion and let us build it here and now.

 

[Trent]

Nuts.

Let me rephrase that.

NUTS!

 

[Trent]

We've been "CONCEDING" since the 1920's.

I'm DONE conceding.

DONE. DONE. DONE.

No more of this crap. They've taken enough.

MY CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN WILL NOT PAY THE PRICE FOR THE EVIL OF OTHER INDIVIDUALS.

 

[Caliper_Mi]

Sorry, I agree with Trent. There is far too much "compromise" already. (I really don't think this qualifies as compromise anyways because we aren't getting anything in exchange for restrictions on our rights)

We are dealing with people for whom laws against murder don't matter. A man who had no problems killing both young children and his own Mother. Do you think that the "No Guns" sign at a school means anything?

Would this have been any better if he had used a knife (as has happened in China) or a golf club or a baseball bat? After all, more murders are committed by blunt force trauma than rifles. Being as I am more likely to be killed by somethng like a baseball bat than with a rifle, I think we are looking at the wrong items to regulate.

Seriously, if you want to compromise, I've got a proposal. We can keep the current FFL system, background checks and licensing for full auto. We'll even make a background check system that lets a citizen get a background check on someone he is making a private party sale to without having to go to a dealer. But let's end laws keeping law abiding citizens from carrying a gun to defend themselves. Remove restrictions on barrel length, caliber, suppressors and importation.

 

[oneounceload]

Sorry, there is no compromise from the left - they are employing the "Soviet style" negotiations - they HAVE to win and you MUST lose - there can be no equality in their eyes

the Republicans caving on the fiscal cliff without getting anything back is another prime example of the left will never compromise

The question becomes, when and where does the next Lexington and Concord happen?

 

[SamWitch]

I also agree with Trent and bluEyes. Our right has been whittled down so much already. But I sorta agree jakeraney87...not on preparing what we are 'willing' to give up, but ways to help anti-gun people see our side without sending them into a knee-jerk, blinding GUNS-ARE-EVIL rage.

Are there any?

 

[Texan Scott]

Maybe I'm just tired... but I've read that post three times and I'm still not sure what he was "orating" about... calling up the militia, advocating concessions, fomenting civil insurrection?

 

[Sky]

Also I was thinking today; Mexico has one of the more serious gun bans for it's population in this hemisphere. There is a drug war there just as our leaders claim and fund @ $500 a second we have here. The people cannot protect their lives, property, or livelihood and look at how many people are killed there yearly. Governors, police, news people, are prime targets. Yep those gun bans work for those who have their own private security detail but it appears not so well for the peons or those whose security is lacking.

From another thread I posted on.

 

[slim76]

What I object to most is the insultingly silly arguments made by the anti-gunners. It shows that they really don't even know who we are and that their attempts to "create change" in our community are based upon the a caricature or who they think we are.

It's rude, and it shows that they haven't even bothered to know their enemy.

A semi-literate paragraph attempting to instill fear, uncertainty and doubt are supposed to work on me? Mmmm-hmmm.

If I just compromise everything will be ok. That's the key thing we're suppose to get here right, that compromise is the only way.
How about I just don't compromise. How about I just say no. I just disagree and have a different idea and say you are wrong.
I think you've mistaken gun owners for consensus craving insecure children. You do know you're addressing grown-ups, right?

 

[Walkalong]

We've been "CONCEDING" since the 1920's.

I'm DONE conceding.

DONE. DONE. DONE.

Same here.

We have plenty of gun laws to enforce. Neither existing laws, nor more laws, will not stop crazy people from committing heinous crimes.

People pretending to be pro gun and telling us we need to "compromise" AGAIN don't help either.

So called assault rifles are not a problem. The law abiding citizens the antis are going after are not the problem either.

 

[d2wing]

The obvious solution is train and arm teachers or other school staff. Every mass murder has been of defenseless confined people where guns are not allowed. Hello. A couple armed good guys in each situation is answer.
Spread that idea.

 

[Robert]

Laws only work on those that choose to follow them. I am not giving up my rights because of the actions of a deranged idiot.

 

[oneounceload]

The obvious solution is train and arm teachers or other school staff. Every mass murder has been of defenseless confined people where guns are not allowed. Hello. A couple armed good guys in each situation is answer.
Spread that idea.

Why is that the "obvious" answer? We have had mentally deranged folks since the beginning of time. Kids used to take their guns to school up until the 70'-80's, yet these incidents NEVER happened. Sorry, but you are proposing a cure for something non-existent - there is a true reason for these events, and their cause/cure needs to be examined, not the contents of my safe

 

[Bird Dog II]

They can make ten round mags the law and it will do very little to stop this. This kid was said to be off the charts IQ wise. Do you know how easy it is to fabricate or modify a magazine? I am pretty sure this kid could have gotten it done. Not to mention the fact that there are probably 100 million larger ones already in circulation. I'm not a black rifle or handgun guy, so selfishly I don't care what they do to magazines so long as my single shots, bolts and shotguns are not affected. But a mag limit will do little if anything to prevent this. That is a fact.

 

[gdcpony]

The obvious solution is train and arm teachers or other school staff. Every mass murder has been of defenseless confined people where guns are not allowed. Hello. A couple armed good guys in each situation is answer.
Spread that idea.

This.

If you think about all options and their enforcement this is the one that is the most logical. It is not perfect- no plan ever is, but it is doable.

It is cheap. Dirt cheap! A course on Deadly Force to make the liberals believe an already CCW holding teacher can be trusted to protect their children would be cheap. A small increase in annual salary to those teachers. This would be far more cost effective than hiring a slew of new people to prevent these tragedies.

It will work. Right now a school is an easy target. Taking that away is a deterrent that means we may never know how many lives it would save. Should some crazed dog decide to go ahead anyways, then a method of ending the crisis is only a few classrooms away. Teachers are about a determined as parents when their charges lives are at stake.

It is simple to implement. A course to take and you have a force to be reckoned with. Within a month you could have thousands of determined, economical, and dedicated guards in our schools.

By the same token there is a sacrifice to be made here. If the teachers are to defend against armed intruders, then armed public like many of us will have to leave our firearms out in the car. No biggie, I would give that to make their job easier. It is no more than we have now and actually is a step in the right direction.

I am a firm believer in fighting fire with fire. I carry and if you mess with the helpless around me you will be dealt with according to your behavior. I think our teachers should be able to do the same.

 

[David E]

Concede? Acquiesce? With antis?

I'm reminded of an example that illustrates how the antis "negotiate."

"they" want your wristwatch. "Give it up!" they say, "for the children."

"wait a minute, can't we work something out?" you plead.

"well, we know how important your watch is to you, so you'll just have to give it up 6 months each year. See how flexible and understanding we are?"

"that's still too long," you protest, "let's keep working towards a solution."

So you slyly negotiate that you'll give up your watch for only 6 hours once a year. Boy, they sure didn't like that deal, but you stood firm!

You smugly pat yourself on the back at your resolute negotiating skill until you notice they're chuckling to themselves, barely able to contain their pure and utter glee. Then it hits you: this is YOUR watch! They gave up NOTHING, only you did.

So it is with gun control.

 

[zdc1775]

Using your law I would never be able to own a firearm due to mental illness (dyslexia) even though I have served this country in the military and persued training outside the military. Also I possibly, depending on your X amount, wouldn't have been able to buy more than one weapon in the time that I have been buying them (approx. 2 years) and possibly not again for a while, mainly because you think I have better things to spend MY money on. Lets just say that I have several issues with what you propose, and I am actually sickened by the fact that someone who calls themself "pro-gun" would propose something like this.

 

[zdc1775]

Oh and btw notice I said time that I have been buying, not that I have owned but how could I prove to the gun store that I got my first gun 19 years ago this Christmas or that when I bought my first I already had five in the house?

I am also noticing that a lot of these what should we give up threads/posts are being started/made by members with less than ten or so post.

 

[Apachedriver]

Concede? Acquiesce? With antis?

I'm reminded of an example that illustrates how the antis "negotiate."

"they" want your wristwatch. "Give it up!" they say, "for the children."

"wait a minute, can't we work something out?" you plead.

"well, we know how important your watch is to you, so you'll just have to give it up 6 months each year. See how flexible and understanding we are?"

"that's still too long," you protest, "let's keep working towards a solution."

So you slyly negotiate that you'll give up your watch for only 6 hours once a year. Boy, they sure didn't like that deal, but you stood firm!

You smugly pat yourself on the back at your resolute negotiating skill until you notice they're chuckling to themselves, barely able to contain their pure and utter glee. Then it hits you: this is YOUR watch! They gave up NOTHING, only you did.

So it is with gun control.

That's an interesting analogy but true.

The only thing anti-gunners have in common with gun owners is Sacrifice.
The difference is the gun owner is willing to sacrifice his own safety for the rights of others. This gives everyone freedom from control.
The anti-gunner is willing to sacrifice everyone else's rights and safety in place of their own. This allows them to maintain control of everyone.

 

[d2wing]

One ounce, I am not sure how you think deranged killers do not exist or whatever you mean. Yes it would help if we could put God back in schools and convert people back to morality but that isn't going well. The genie is way out of the bottle. Now we need to protect ourselves and our children by shooting back. Innocence is lost, we must protect the innocent.

 

[dark.zero.x]

We've been "CONCEDING" since the 1920's.

I'm DONE conceding.

DONE. DONE. DONE.

No more of this crap. They've taken enough.

MY CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN WILL NOT PAY THE PRICE FOR THE EVIL OF OTHER INDIVIDUALS.

This.

Now is the time for us to fight for our rights. Being only 22 and have read all the previous laws and regulation set forth LONG before my time I refuse to lose what little I have left when it comes to my rights.

 

[col.lemat]

With Trent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give up nothing!!!!!!!!!!

 

[mtuchris]

Three part plan if I were a pro-gun senator:

1) First and I believe foremost is to immediately address the root of the mass killings which is people who need help and did not get it. I believe a simple campaign run by the states through social media to reach out young individuals to shift the stigma of mental disorders can be a big help. Stop letting these young people slip through the cracks of society. Also, this doesn't have to cost the taxpayers an arm and a leg to have some child psychologists work out a plan and create some social media accounts and advertising to begin awareness. We need to get parents involved and away from denial that their troubled, or, seemingly normal child "could never do something like this". We need to motivate friends and relatives to reach out to each other when early warning signs develop. It works for stopping terrorism, it can work for stopping gun violence. Think of the "see something, say something" campaign. This is especially true in schools and universities.

2) Create that "well regulated militia". Not to defend against tyranny or invasion, but protection for the people, by the people. I am thinking an advanced CCW program implemented and run at the state levels to get CCW volunteers advanced training with law enforcement, by law enforcement. And include first responder training for medical emergencies. These people will have advanced CCW rights to carry in all pistol free zones, with national reciprocity. They will be authorized only to intervene in situations that involve deadly force, but not given rights to arrest, etc., they are not cops. They will be familiar with local law enforcement and their tactics and able to assist officers in responding to these mass killings or terrorist threats. The local law enforcement will know them and their faces because they have trained with them. By allowing, civilian volunteers with advanced LEO training to be anywhere at anytime, the effective deterrence of the police force can be magnified. I would also suggest that these volunteers undergo extensive background checks, and mental health screenings. They should be permitted to keep long guns in their vehicles or places of work to respond to mass murderers with equal and effective force. Work hard to bring the percieved status of these civilian protectors up to the level of law enforcement in the eyes of the anti gun crowd so they are not seen as just another yahoo with a gun.

3) We, as the responsible gun owners of this country need to pressure each other to keep weapons inaccessible to those who don't have any business getting to them, like unsupervised children, relatives, friends, etc. Its seems most of these weapons come from a friend or parent who did not keep them locked up when not home. As a gun owner, you might as well hand it to them.

 

[JayDT]

Compromise?

Why don't all the leftists who don't like the USA, our Constitution (with the Bill of Rights) just leave. Go to a country where others think as they do and leave us alone.

On Joe Huffman's blog, he makes the point that all these legislators, lawyers and progressives (I'm paraphrasing) need to be held accountable for creating "Gun Free Zones" that have lead to the death of others. It would appear that the individuals are accessories to murders.

Compromise? No way. Progressives/socialists don't compromise. Stalin, Hitler, Mao, and Pol Pot "compromised" millions of their own people -- to death.

 

[barnbwt]

Gun owners have been involved in the discussion for years now; that's why we've seen no new legislation passed at the Federal level. For some reason, both gunnies and antis seem to think that "no action" is not itself a policy decison. Politicians have done nothing since that is the "will of the people."

Let's be gentle on the OP's grammar; it's entirely possible English isn't his first language...

"Why don't all the leftists who don't like the USA, our Constitution (with the Bill of Rights) just leave. Go to a country where others think as they do and leave us alone."
"Stalin, Hitler, Mao, and Pol Pot "compromised" millions of their own people -- to death."
I feel you, but please ease it up a notch. This isn't some Yahoo! News comments board; you don't score points by being loud. It's hard enough to have meaningful conversation without such hyperbole whipping people into a fury. --Thanks

TCB