Time to upgrade my HD gun- epidemic of home invasions in neighborhood

[rondog]

Quote:
Originally Posted by rondog
Absolutely. But imagine the look on a BG's face when he crawls through the doggie door and comes nose to nose with an unhappy GSD!

GSD?

Sorry, German Shepherd Dog. See them frequently referred to as GSD's.

 

[chaim]

You might consider picking up a door bar like this one. It runs about fifteen bucks online. That one gets pretty good reviews, but you'd probably want to shop around and make sure you're getting a quality product. A bar like that will make your door considerably harder to kick in, and may be worth considering if your landlord won't let you do other modifications to the door.

That would help with the front door which opens in, but not if they come from my back door (which is actually on the street as well- my apt is wedged between two streets so both the front and back is on the street). My back door is a regular door (not a sliding glass door) but it opens out instead of opening in like a traditional entry door. Of course, you can't kick in a door which opens out (why they don't make more entry doors open out I'm not sure), but it is mostly glass so... To make that worse, my rear door is in my bedroom

 

[bannockburn]

chaim

I would go with one or both of the SIGs that you currently have and I would pick up a shotgun, like a Mossberg 500; or if you're on a tight budget a Maverick 88.

 

[340PD]

Wow! I am sitting here reading all this and realized how lucky I am. The OP has a number of guns what will do the job. .45 vs 9mm, I don't want to get hit by either of them. I think his real focus is now, "how do I survive a home invasion". I would be prone to getting rid of guns I really do not need or shoot frequently and look at a high capacity semi and maybe a couple of them. Springfield, Glock, and S&W all make guns of different sizes on the same platform. Nothing wrong with a Glock 17 or 19 and a G26 for carry. I love my snubbies, but in today's environment I keep a XDm .45 with light/laser handy as a primary house gun. When with my grandkids, a G19 is always my IWB.

 

[BLB68]

That would help with the front door which opens in, but not if they come from my back door (which is actually on the street as well- my apt is wedged between two streets so both the front and back is on the street). My back door is a regular door (not a sliding glass door) but it opens out instead of opening in like a traditional entry door. Of course, you can't kick in a door which opens out (why they don't make more entry doors open out I'm not sure), but it is mostly glass so... To make that worse, my rear door is in my bedroom

That glass could be a problem, yikes.

 

[AK103K]

I think its a big mistake not to have the gun on you. If you doubt this, try it in practice. Have someone rush in unexpectedly, and see what you do. Even with the gun on you, you'll likely be lucky to react in time. Think of it as the Tuller drill of the house.

Dogs are great at giving you time. They alert, and they can act as a mobile choke point, and tie up.

We have Rotties, and they are VERY protective of the family. No one gets close to the house, without us knowing about it. They usually go off before the perimeter alarms do. If someone were to happen to get in, I'll know just where the problem is too, and I can pretty much guarantee they will be the distracted parties.

Perimeter alarms are great too, and can be had for reasonable prices. Some come with multiple "heads" that will tell you just where to expect things, and you can easily cover the yard, approaches, and doors. Any time you gain, is only in your favor.

 

[BSA1]

My back door is a regular door (not a sliding glass door) but it opens out instead of opening in like a traditional entry door. Of course, you can't kick in a door which opens out (why they don't make more entry doors open out I'm not sure), but it is mostly glass so... To make that worse, my rear door is in my bedroom

To prevent the back door from being entered into I suggest the following;

On the interior of the door install decorative metal grating covering the entire length of the glass. The bars or grating should be spaced close enough to prevent a persons hand for reaching through it.

Install a high security deadbolt lock that requires a key on both sides to unlock it.

A cheap but very effective fix is to buy simple locks that have a sliding bolt. Drill a 1/2 or 3/4" holes in the still at the top and bottom of the door and install the locks on the inside of the door so the bolt drops into the holes. Use long screws (3 1/2 to 4") to screw the metal plate to the casement that the bolt drops into. I did this to the back door of a old house my mother lived in and it locked the door as tight as a vault door yet allowed her to unlock the door easily.

Install plastic film on the inside of the glass that prevents someone from seeing into the house but allows you to see out. The film allows helps prevent the glass from being shattered.

If your landlord will not install these items for you I would do it anyway even if it means lose of your security deposit.

 

[MistWolf]

Of the choices presented, I'd go with the CZ. With modern ammunition, the 9mm will get the job done. Under the circumstances and if legal, I'd forego the shotgun and, for a variety of reasons, buy an AR instead.

You may also want to think about getting a few more quick access safes and placing them in different rooms with a handgun in each

 

[chaim]

There have been a couple more dog suggestions, but the dog has to wait. I am single, I live in an apartment, and I often work 12-13 hour days (regularly about 10 though sometimes longer, two days a week I teach evening school so I have a 13 hour day, counting driving time I'm away for nearly 15 hours those days). So, no dog until: I'm married and someone else can share the dog walking duties, or I have a house with a fenced in yard so I can install a dog door and the dog can walk out into the yard to do his business whenever he needs. Of course, I would never leave a dog home alone that long (on the 13 hour days anyway) so I would have to hire a dog walker two days a week anyway, but I can't afford 5 days a week and even my 10 hour days would be too long to make a dog wait to do his business. As a teacher, I could leave after 8 hours and bring work home, but even then, with driving, that is typically 10 hours the dog would be left alone, and again, that's a bit long to make a dog hold it in.

On the interior of the door install decorative metal grating covering the entire length of the glass. The bars or grating should be spaced close enough to prevent a persons hand for reaching through it...

A cheap but very effective fix is to buy simple locks that have a sliding bolt...

Install plastic film on the inside of the glass that prevents someone from seeing into the house but allows you to see out. The film allows helps prevent the glass from being shattered.

I couldn't do the bars as they'd likely be a permanent fixture, but I like the plastic film idea. Other than the mostly glass rear entry door (though at least I'm on the 2nd floor and not the ground floor), my entire front wall is glass.

I have definitely thought about the sliding bolt locks (or a chain) to help strengthen the front door especially. I figure the holes in the door frame won't be too big for spackle when I move out. Though, I'd probably go with one of those bars like was posted earlier, cheap, and no holes in the door frame to repair.

 

[chaim]

Under the circumstances and if legal, I'd forego the shotgun and, for a variety of reasons, buy an AR instead.

You may also want to think about getting a few more quick access safes and placing them in different rooms with a handgun in each

I already have an AR, and other than HBARs from some brands, MD banned their sale in 2013. I live in Baltimore, so unfortunately, I do have to think about more than just effectiveness. In Baltimore, there is a strong chance that you will be brought to trial in even the most clear cut self-defense case, and most likely the jury will be predisposed to "gun=bad/evil" thinking. So, the more PC looking the better. A shotgun is more effective at stopping an attacker than a .223 (though at HD ranges, .223 is no slouch), and it is much more likely to look "acceptable" to a jury (especially since those "evil black rifles" are so dangerous that the state felt the need to ban them a couple years ago ). Yeah, it might sound a little paranoid, but I want to increase my chances of winning both in a self-defense situation while still maintaining a decent chance of winning in court and this is not just MD but Baltimore. That said, my AR is in my safe, I do have one of my 20 round mags loaded in case there are more than 2 or 3 attackers (it is illegal under the 2013 law to buy/sell/trade/gift mags over 10 rounds, but possession isn't banned). I have thought about a wood stocked Mini-14 for fairly PC looks with good capacity (I can still legally buy 20 and 30 round mags out of state and bring them home for my own use, I just can't buy/sell/gift/trade/lend them here), but for right now the Mini is too much money.

I only need the one quick access safe since that is where the gun goes overnight and when I'm not home. Most of the rest of the time a handgun is on my person.

That does bring up a consideration though (and why I rarely actually use my S&W 625MG)...It is nearly impossible to get a carry permit in MD. Thus, I need to remove my gun whenever I leave the apartment, and then put it back on when I return. I rarely use my 625 (and I'm not sure how much I'd use my CZ) because, as a full-sized gun, they work better with a belt holster. Having to partially remove my belt whenever I need to put on or take off the holster (since it can be multiple times a day, especially on days off) is a pain. So, a pocket holster, paddle holster, or IWB holster (with clips, not loops) are my best bets (and hence, why I've stuck with my little 5-shot revolvers so long). For a heavier gun like a large frame revolver, or a full sized service pistol, a belt holster or an IWB with loops support the gun much better. That said, I may try a clip on IWB for my 625 since I'd really like to use this as my HD gun more often than I do.

 

[Telekinesis]

If you're only carrying at home, why not consider something like a duty belt set up? That way you could size it so that you could just put it on over your normal pants belt and you can just leave it set up with an OWB holster and any mags/mag pouches you might want.

Something like this could also be useful for the "bump in the night" type of thing. No matter what you're wearing, you can throw on the belt and have the gun, spare mags, a light, etc all ready to go.

Unless concealability is a factor (opening the door or maybe when having people over?) a duty belt type set up would be easy to put on/take off, should be more comfortable, and would be easier to draw from than pretty much any concealed holster. You can use this setup with pretty much any gun including full sized pistols.

 

[Girodin]

To get more capacity you could always wear two guns instead of one, way faster than reloading and one on each side would also balance the load

Have you tested out that "way faster than reloading" theory on a shot timer?

I'd pick whichever gun you are willing to actually carry around at home all the time. If that is a 5 shot snub so be it. IMHO a five shot snub that is on you is a superior choice to the 17 shot CZ 75 that is somewhere on the other side of the home.

I'd also have a blade. It is counter intuitive to a lot of folks, but if some one who is 3 feet way from you (like at your front door) rushes you and goes hands on, a blade can be the more effective and easier response. Of course, just like the gun, it requires some understanding and training in its use. I like a small fixed blade for this role. I personally like something like this:

View attachment 738504

or this

View attachment 738505

In what Southnarc calls a "F.U.T." (fouled up tangle) they really can be a better option than a firearm.

Good news is most of the day time break ins are likely occurring because no one is home. The common tactic is to knock on the doors and up waiting long enough to indicate no one is home that's when they kick the door in. There is a reason they are occurring in the middle of the day.

As to the home invasions, respond but do not open the door to strangers or unexpected guests.

For a bedside gun, where a carbine is not an option, one of the clones of the 870 or 500 is really tough to beat in terms of value. The pardner pumps and hawks can be had for as little as $150 and are from what I have seen arguably better made guns than the 870 express line. You can get get one of those guns, a magpul fore end, a weapon mounted light for it, and a velcro side saddle system for less than the price of a new 870 or 500.

This is the type of light setup I have used and really like.

View attachment 738506

 

[chaim]

If you're only carrying at home, why not consider something like a duty belt set up? That way you could size it so that you could just put it on over your normal pants belt and you can just leave it set up with an OWB holster and any mags/mag pouches you might want.

Something like this could also be useful for the "bump in the night" type of thing. No matter what you're wearing, you can throw on the belt and have the gun, spare mags, a light, etc all ready to go.

Unless concealability is a factor (opening the door or maybe when having people over?) a duty belt type set up would be easy to put on/take off, should be more comfortable, and would be easier to draw from than pretty much any concealed holster. You can use this setup with pretty much any gun including full sized pistols.

That is a great idea, if not all the time, for a good portion of it.

With a duty belt idea, I'd need a larger bedside safe (I'm thinking of getting a different one anyway), though I could unholster the gun and put it in the safe while keeping the belt out. It would allow me to keep all my self defense tools together (gun, mags, knife, and flashlight, and possibly pepper spray for when you can see immediately that the potential thief isn't armed so my only options aren't deadly force and fists). I do like that it would allow a larger gun, and typically a larger gun is a more capable gun. Since I'm not a cop or open carry advocate wearing it out in public, I could still use an OWB concealment holster with minimal retention on an open belt and have a very quick draw.

I would want to do that with a backup though. Like you mention when you talk about times it may be needed to conceal it, it would be necessary to conceal it when answering the door and with the unexpected knock on the door you can't plan it (I definitely don't want to open the door for the UPS man or Girl Scouts selling cookies with a visible gun). But, having a discrete place to drop the belt (a basket by my sofa or recliner) and one of my pocketable pistols ready to be dropped in my pocket when I go to the door and it could work well.

I may not go this option though, mainly because I'm leaning towards the .45ACP P250c which is reasonable on either an IWB or paddle holster, and I already have a good IWB concealment holster for it. Just, around the house I won't use a cover garment so it will still be pretty easy to draw quickly except when I need to quickly conceal it to answer the door (this is how I carry my 85CH currently). The added benefit of using a concealment holster, is it is practice for when I do carry out of state on my UT non-resident permit (something I typically do once or twice a month). There are enough advantages to your duty belt style suggestion that, though I probably won't do it right away, I will probably move towards it (buying components for the system a little at a time to spread out the financial cost of a good setup).

 

[TheRealJQP]

What are MD/Baltimore laws concerning pistol ARs? If legal, I'd consider a pistol AR with an 8.5" barrel in .300 BLK, with a Shockwave Blade brace. Before a shotgun, anyway. You'd have to part it out yourself, though, AFAIK; I don't know of anyone selling them complete.

Better shot placement, more firepower, and more compact than a shotgun.

 

[chaim]

I'd also have a blade. It is counter intuitive to a lot of folks, but if some one who is 3 feet way from you (like at your front door) rushes you and goes hands on, a blade can be the more effective and easier response. Of course, just like the gun, it requires some understanding and training in its use. I like a small fixed blade for this role. I personally like something like this:

Girodin, I went through a knife collecting phase for a few years about 10-15 years ago so I have a small but nice selection of just over half a dozen folders and a couple fixed blade knives. I've seen the claims that knives are actually more deadly at short range than a gun (though I haven't seen much about which is likely to stop an attack faster since that is the goal and not killing your attacker). I know at arms length or grappling range a knife can be a very effective (possibly more effective) option.

 

[chaim]

What are MD/Baltimore laws concerning pistol ARs?

No pistol ARs at all. No non-HBAR ARs of any brand. Depending upon the interpretation of the law, no Bushmasters whether HBAR or not (strict wording certainly would ban all Bushmasters in any configuration). If you already have them, you can keep them, but if you want to sell them you must sell them out of state (you can't give them as a gift either). If you are charged after a self-defense shooting (which in Baltimore is a near certainty), you will likely have an anti-gun jury so I'd feel more comfortable using something more PC looking but still capable (like a shotgun or a Mini-14).

Funny though, AR-10s are completely legal (though M1As are banned).

Mag restrictions of 10 rounds of less, though you can buy them out of state and bring them in, you just can't buy/sell/trade/lend/etc them here.

 

[Evil-Twin]

The good news is more frequent awareness of the possibility... No one should wait until home invasions become common place in any community. Suppose you are the first in your neighborhood, to be assaulted? You don't want to be unprepared...

With the violent climate escalating daily in the country, Everyone should make their home as impenetrable as possible. If you lock yourself out of your house, How would you get in?
This should be a focus...

Once someone enters your house... what is your plan? How do you open your door to a delivery, a Knock, ???? How do you react to an unfamiliar noise ?

IM never more than 12 inches from a weapon while in the house... You will never have time to go to a lock box, safe etc, to defend yourself. in the event of a surprise home invasion.( joke.. all home invasions are a surprise ) No one gives a heads up when they are about to break into your house. there is a different defense when you are sleeping and are suddenly awakened, then when you are awake. Awareness of the possibility of a home invasion is the biggest defense against it. Having a plan in place for any scenario is critical. The weapon of choice is very subjective to each situation, house construction, layout, children in the house, eg. you don't want to unleash a 357 mag round or rounds that could exit the house and wind up in your neighbors nursery, Readily available defense is critical... being able to access a weapon in less than a couple of seconds. Having a defensive weapon on each floor of your home is important unless you carry " IN the house " Just some thoughts... Defend your self in your own home, and don't worry about the legalities because those worries are what are going to make you dead if you hesitate to shoot. IN my club, we had a 92 year old Senior citizen and WW II veteran kill two invaders to his home several years ago, and that guy never paid for another meal at our gun club again. He made all the papers, never had an issue with the law over the defense of his home. Sadly he passed away this past fall.

 

[farm23]

I applaud your collection. If I were to get another shotgun [I don't need another one] for home D I would probably look at a SxS from Stoeger. They are inexpensive and work. I admit I like SxS but they do offer two quick shots.

 

[C0untZer0]

I think having a 10-round limit on the AR makes a 12ga with an 8-round tube a more attractive option. I know you have a faster reload with a box magazine but I think an 8+1 shotgun compares more favorably with an AR limited to 10 rounds than an AR with no mag cap limits.

 

[old lady new shooter]

How about installing the 3M security film on the glass -- the landlord wouldn't even need to know, it's invisible.

 

[orionengnr]

For a while my main HD gun has been my 5-shot Taurus 85CH and/or my S&W 442.

You have two 5-shot .38s. When you are at home, one in each front pocket is a good start. At a certain point, if you replace those two with one higher-capacity 9mm...so much the better.

I've followed your posts for several years. I understand that you are religious, but is Baltimore MD the only place in the US where a practicing Orthodox Jew can find a job as a teacher? I find that hard to believe.

I understand that some of the other options (suburbs of NYC, LA) might be equally un-palatable, and I don't know what the Jewish enclaves of Philly, Cleveland, New Orleans, or Houston (and many others) might be. Maybe worth a look? You are still young, and un-attached. Perfect time to make a move, especially one that will pay dividends in the years to come.

In summary, if your current neighborhood is hazardous, especially due to religious persecution, take that as a sign.

Loretta Lynch and the current DOJ gnomes sure as Hell aren't going to do anything about it. If Hillary gets elected, it will not get better. You are responsible for your personal safety.

 

[chaim]

Once someone enters your house... what is your plan? How do you open your door to a delivery, a Knock, ???? How do you react to an unfamiliar noise ?

I usually have a gun on me when at home, and I'm changing that to always. I also have my pistol safe in my bedroom, and if I have time to get to my main safe I have an AR with a loaded 20 round mag if things get really ugly (and I will be adding a 12ga soon). If I have a gun in my pocket (and not IWB) I answer the door for a stranger with my hand on the gun (if I answer the door at all, if Idon't know you and I'm not expecting someone, I may or may not open up).

I think having a 10-round limit on the AR makes a 12ga with an 8-round tube a more attractive option.

Well, yes and no...The mag limits aren't as bad as NJ and other places with restrictions where the possession of the mags is forbidden. In MD it is sale, gift or other transfer of the mags. The ones I have are legal for me to keep and use, and I can go to another state and buy new ones. Though, in anti-gun MD I'd wager that a "high-cap" mag will probably increase the chances of being charged (which is a near certainty in Balt City anyway) and the prosecutor will use it to try to prove evil intent.

How about installing the 3M security film on the glass

I checked on Amazon, even the non-3m brands are pretty expensive, but then I checked some demo videos on You Tube and damn...that stuff is impressive. I'm going to have to give it a try.

You have two 5-shot .38s. When you are at home, one in each front pocket is a good start. At a certain point, if you replace those two with one higher-capacity 9mm...so much the better.

I do sometimes use both, one IWB and one in the pocket, but I'm transitioning to using some of my more capable guns. I was out at the range again this evening with my .45ACP P250c and that thing will eat anything I feed it and it is quite manageable for a lightweight (26oz) .45. That is my primary winter CCW (when in a state where I can) and it will definitely now be my primary home defense handgun. I'll probably back it up with my Taurus 85, SIG P290RS (my 3rd most accurate gun) or Kel-Tec Pf-9 (after another range trip I can't sell it, it fits my pockets so well and is reasonably accurate for the size/weight). Because the my CZ75B and S&W 625MG are my most accurate handgun (CZ) and second most accurate (625) I will occasionally use them, but the SIG will definitely be the primary (the original intent of this thread was for help on that decision).

I've followed your posts for several years. I understand that you are religious, but is Baltimore MD the only place in the US where a practicing Orthodox Jew can find a job as a teacher? I find that hard to believe.

Well, yes and no...

Teaching is state licensed so it will take some planning. I did not major in education (I was a psych major) and my masters in education is the version that experienced teachers get, not the one for new teachers to get certified. When I got certified, a couple years after getting my degree, I got a job teaching on a "conditional" certification, what some states call emergency certification, and simply took the extra courses I needed to get my regular certification in MD. Because I did not attend an "approved program" and used an "alternate route" to certification, not all states will accept my certification (two of the states I'd most consider moving to, MN and PA, will not). Anyway, I am starting the process to get my NJ certification in a couple days, and I'll probably add DE certification.

There aren't major communities everywhere I'd otherwise consider going. Baltimore is a pretty big one. Since I'm single, and smaller communities won't have so many single religious Jews, I probably need to move closer to NYC (where there are more social opportunities) or LA or Chicago (ick, the other largest communities). I'd love to move to the Richmond, VA community, but the number of single Orthodox women in my age group there can probably be counted on one hand.

Also, my parents are now in their 70's so I already wanted to stay nearby, and recently my dad has had a heart attack and other heart problems, so I want to stay a reasonable drive from them. I want to see them as much as I can while they are still around, and I want to be nearby to get there quickly when/if my dad has another emergency.

So, all that comes together with, I am trying to get my NJ and DE certification so I might be able to get a job near and move to Philly. That would be a DC sized community (medium), cut the distance to NY in half for dating, and still be 2.5-3 hours from my parent's house should I need to get there quickly. The other option is northern NJ (more pay, more social opportunities) until I meet someone and get married, and then hopefully I can talk her into moving somewhere else (or I can join the NJ pro-2A fight, there's no way it can be more hopeless than here). But, all that is for next year (if I can find a job in DE or NJ) because if I leave my current contracted position without the school approving it, I can lose my teaching license.

You are still young,

Well, I'm more middle-aged now. I'm in my mid-40s.

 

[old lady new shooter]

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[Mr Woody]

I took GSD to mean a German Shepard Dog; but I am not very good at some of the initials used around here.

A way to gain a few moments when someone kicks in your door is to mount a light cable about 10 inches off the ground with one side on the door jamb and the other on the door. When the door is kicked open the cable goes up and trips the bad guys as they come in. Gives you more time to react.

 

[highpower]

One of the reasons they are targeting your neighborhood is that Jews tend to be liberal and seen to have a problem defending themselves. My family is Jewish and painfully liberal except for me.

Surely your life and possessions are worth looking at finding a place to live that is out of the war zone you seem to be living in. I would rather drive for an hour to worship than to live in fear of the very real possibility of being a target for these pieces of human debris. You talk about arming yourself better, and that is a good thing, but unless you take all your guns with you wherever you go, there is the risk of have all your guns stolen if they decide to go after your apartment. Also what kind of life is it when you have to live in fear and go armed constantly in your own home?

However, it is your life and you have to live it as you see fit. As for armament, I would buy a Glock 21 and load for bear. Carry it in a good OWB holster and practice like crazy drawing and firing. Put a shotgun (it doesn't matter what type) by your bed for things that go bump in the night and you will be as prepared as you can be.