To carry or not to carry OC Spray, that is the question.

[zignal_zero]

I understand what you two are saying - after you spray someone, you still have a lot of work left to do on them. I just feel the remainder of that work gets considerably easier after they're sprayed I've never once sprayed anyone and had them not show a little worse for wear. It takes enough out of them to swing things around to my advantage. I hate fair fights and OC keeps the playing field fixed. Now, my LT swore to God he dumped a nice long blast into this one guys face (while they were fighting) and the only difference it made was the guy paused to say "I love spices, got any more?" Then when back to fighting. My LT had decided he was really going to have to shoot this guy, then a bystander jumped in to even it out. So, yea, the spray proof folks exist, but they are few and far between. Most people are affected enough where taking them down gets easier than without it.

 

[carpettbaggerr]

Yep. OC is an edge which is 'no harm no foul'.

If I have to defend myself with bare hands my attacker is going to be in much worse shape. And that usually means a much longer talk with the police......

 

[theicemanmpls]

Yep. OC is an edge which is 'no harm no foul'.

If I have to defend myself with bare hands my attacker is going to be in much worse shape. And that usually means a much longer talk with the police......

Macho chest pounding?

I stopped with fist fights in junior high.

Just saying.

 

[2WheelsGood]

I usually carry both. Largely for four-legged control when I'm out with my dogs. But also for those times I'm forced to leave the gun in the car when entering a criminal empowerment zone.

 

[RTR_RTR]

I don't carry it and won't. I used to have to get sprayed annually as part of my qualification to carry OC as an MP. This qual entailed being sprayed in the face and then preforming multiple police skills fighting open handed, fighting with an ASP and given verbal commands to a suspect. I never saw anyone fail this evolution and it made me lose confidence in OC. The real kicker of this whole thing is that while I was sprayed annually I was never once issued OC...My point is while OC is extremely aggravating it will not stop a determined individual.

And the person who you had to do all this to - they stuck around or they hauled ass away from you? Because that's a pretty important distinction

 

[Loosedhorse]

Yep. OC is an edge which is 'no harm no foul'.

Use of OC is harm. So it is a foul: unless justified, it is assault.

I may be misinterpreting, but there seems to be an impression among some posters that the police will give you a free pass if you OC someone, but would run you in if you arm-barred him down (and ran).

I can understand the idea of "me no want touch him--he's icky." But OC is force. And it occasionally kills the person sprayed.

 

[NOLAEMT]

I think that is a very good point that many people miss. OC or pepper spray is LESS-lethal force. It is not non-lethal.

If you spray someone who has asthma, or other respiratory ailments, you could very well kill them, or at least put them in the hospital.

 

[carpettbaggerr]

Hmm. I guess I wasn't clear enough in my last response.

I wasn't speaking of a fistfight or a barfight. I was talking about defending myself against someone who made it clear they were going to attack me. Perhaps a street person, perhaps an EDP. Perhaps a case of roadrage.

OC spray is much safer for me. Less chance of injury (broken knuckles, sprained or strained muscles) and even if they aren't dissuaded completely I expect it to be much easier for me to leave the area. Much better to run from someone who has trouble seeing and breathing.

I would only use OC as self defense -- spraying someone I would otherwise be hitting. Its possible the spray could cause an allergic reaction or trigger an asthma attack. But if I punch someone they could fall and hit their head on the curb and die.
My opinion is that striking someone is much more likely to cause a longer lasting injury than spraying someone with OC. Isn't that why officers are sprayed when certifying for OC but aren't required to be struck with a baton in order to carry an ASP??

If I did defend myself with OC I would contact the police asap -- Just as if I defended myself in any other way. But it seems easier to explain why I sprayed someone than why I hit them so many times.

 

[glistam]

I second the argument that when you spray, you should be running. The "anti" examples offered so far seem to involve the person spraying, then continuing to engage the attacker in some manner or just standing there hoping he will just lay down and hold still until the police arrive.

Also on the lethality issue, it's not quite the same thing. Life-threatening reactions from OC are possible, but are rare and more importantly, unanticipated. If you shoot someone with a gun or stab them with a knife, a court will be completely justified in assuming your intent was to kill or seriously wound. If you spray with OC and the person is allergic, 99.999% of the time there is no possible way the sprayer knew that was going to happen, thus there is no lethal intent. At worst it's manslaughter, which also assumes the spraying was not justifiable as self-defense. And yes I know about the "eggshell skull" concept, but that's about lawsuits which are a separate matter entirely.

 

[bdjansen]

And the person who you had to do all this to - they stuck around or they hauled ass away from you? Because that's a pretty important distinction

Yeah, I agree. Were you able to catch somebody trying to get away from you?