To have a rail or not, sometimes not even a question.

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watson

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Hello all,

This post is not meant to insult or call anyones opinion wrong, just sharing my thoughts on rails on handguns. You are free to comment back differing opinions but as always lets keep it respectfull. This post IS NOT about rails on rifles or shotguns. To cover that quick and move on. I definitly feel that when used on these weapons to mount a light it allows you to perform a 3 handed task on a two handed weapon. :D




So why put a light on my gun? - Lights on weapons are not always a bad thing however you need to keep in mind that if you put a light on your gun for the purpose of illuminating a target that now anything you point your light at you are now pointing your muzzle at. :what: We in THR should all nod our heads and know that this is not always a good idea. Now if you think you need a light mounted on your handgun always then by all means it's a free country just keep in mind you probably want to carry another flashlight common night time iluumination tasks.


2. My kingdom for a holster - For those that see some cool spec ops Navy whatshisname with a kewl light and say OMGAWSOMESAUCE I must have that. Remember if your going to have a light mounted to let's say a home defense handgun, you'll probably want to holster it at some point unless you plan on never letting go of it like some sort of teddy bear :D.


3. On again off again - Some people might say well it's easy enough to take it on and off I'll buy a holster and take it off when I don't need it and vice versa. Let's stop and think about this practically, most of the time if you need a light on your weapon its you NEED it NOW so fumbling and trying to attach your light under any kind of stress is not a good idea. This is why I (and i believe others) prefer to practice with some sort of decent quality tactical carry flashlight and some type of flashlight handgun hold.

Some common holds can be found here http://www.iwillnotbeavictim.com/flashlight_hold-page.html

Here is a link to the Surfire Combat Rings that can be added to most flashlights to provide an easier hand gun flashlight hold.
http://www.surefire.com/CombatRings


4. Concealed carry - I my humble opinion putting a weapon mounted light on a concealed carry handgun adds more trouble than it's worth. First question is are you going to be drawing your gun to iluminate everything you want to illuminate on your nighttime walk. As Doc Holiday so very well put it "I calculate not". Most of your life spent concealed carrying that gun should spend in it's holster. So if you do decide that you definitly need this on your carry gun better pring along a standalone flashlight as well.




All in all I'm not trying to tell anyone what to do, but these are the points I've come to thought on and decided for my pruposes. The only handgun I put a light on is that "**** just hit the fan at 3am somones breaking down my door and I need a gun and a light NOW!!"


Best




Links to some good pocket flashlights for defensive carry:

E1B Backup (My carry light)
http://www.surefire.com/E1B-Backup


E2D LED Defender (Very Bright)
http://www.surefire.com/E2DL

Streamlight PT2L (Good light for the money, WILL GET HOT if left in High mode for extended periods)
http://www.streamlight.com/product/product.aspx?pid=202
 
Thanks! I hope this will be a great topic.

I am thinking about selling my 1994 P226 (W German) because it doesn't have a rail.
 
^^^ Me too. The pistol I carry on my property and in my car has no light or laser nor a rail to hold them. My night stand pistol has a rail with both.
 
My pistols, no lights on any of them.
The wifes night stand pistol, light & laser at her request of course. Her carry pistol has no light.

I will say with any half decent light you don't have to point the gun directly at whatever your trying to light up, all of them I have ever seen would easily light up an entire room enough to see even with the muzzle angled to the floor.

The one gun we have with a light is her dedicated night stand gun, it's either on the night stand or in someones hand, we don't even have a holster for it. She actually asked me if we could get a light because she kept getting up "just to check stuff out" and she said she either couldn't see or she would just take a flashlight. So basically we bought a light and mounted it on a gun to force her to carry the gun when she checks stuff out.:banghead: Sometimes I think she thinks of it more like a flashlight that happens to have a gun attached to it, just in case.:rolleyes: women, well mine anyway.

Before that when I would come home at 2:00am or some other crazy hour (shift worker here) she would get out of bed and sometimes get the gun then crack the door half way open while half nude and say "Is that you baby?" to which I would say "It is and you better be glad:banghead:"
Now she cracks the door open with gun in hand pointed at floor and can tell it's me well before I get to the door. Frankly I feel safer now, simply because I can be identified.
 
...if you put a light on your gun for the purpose of illuminating a target that now anything you point your light at you are now pointing your muzzle at. :what:
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Dang, when will people learn that illuminating a target does not equal pointing a light at it?
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Two words that seem to completely escape the comprehension of way too many folks in these types of threads...

indirect illumination​

As if a flashlight is completely useless, unless you point it directly at the object you need to identify. :rolleyes:
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As was once said.
 
1.) Even with indirect lighting.....my pistol is in my hand. I'd rather have my pistol in my holster on my belt. Never draw your weapon unless you'll need it and all that blah blah.

Of course many will choose a light on the pistol and a handheld. That's fine. I just don't want that much weight since I'm into heavy 1911's and kinda heavy double stack Glocks.

And even if I'm checking out my own property, I'm in the Peoples Socialist Republic of Ohio. I have to keep my pistol covered up. Even if I'm well within my rights, anything that riles up the neighbors can equal jail time around here.

2.) All my defensive pistols spend time as CCW's. A gun I can leave out for home defense....would be a rifle not a pistol. And it's easier to conceal without a light attached to my pistol. If my pistol is ready to go, it's on my belt, not in a nightstand, on a counter or whatever.

3.) I like my flashlight to be loose. So I can hold it out far away from my body incase my light becomes a target.

4.) I only trust a flashlight I can use every single day. As a field tech I do use my Surefire E2D every single day and it looks like heck, but I know I can count on it. A light that sits in a holster and used rarely has not proven to be all that reliable for me. Not to mention that recoil isn't friendly to lights, no matter what Surefire claims. While they are super tough, they aren't as tough as a simple E2D. At least thats been my experience. YMMV.

5.) I prefer the old school E2D not the LED model. Simple is reliable for me, but costs me in batteries. About 1 box of Streamlight or Surefire batteries a year. Never more than two, so it's not really a big deal.

6.) Shooting with one hand stinks, but I'm OK at it.

7.) Low light training stinks! Definately find a class that deos low light training, if you haven't allready. It's the hardest form of pistol training I know. Very, very, frustrating. Sights don't work. Your flashlight blinds you. Point shooting. One handed shooting. Flash. etc. etc. It's terrible. Really shows how quickly things go bad, and how tough it can be to take a responsible shot in the dark.


Overall you have to do what works for you. Low light is a nightmare. Everyones eyes and home terrain are different and require specialized techniques.
 
I am not a die hard fan of having a rail on a pistol. I own pistols with and without rails. Two of the three pistols (G17 and G19) in my carry rotation have rails. The other one is a G26 and it just wasnt designed to have one. I dont think a rail on a pistol is bad, if you need the rail its there for use. If you dont use the rail, then its just there.

When it comes to a light mounted on a pistol, I am a bit split. I have a Surefire X200 that I will put on my G17 at night for nightstand duty. Hard to forget the light when it is attached to the pistol.

I will occaisionally use my X200 while I am on duty. I do not have a duty holster that accomodates a light mounted duty pistol. My X200 just rides on my belt til needed. There have been several situations where having a light mounted on my duty pistol has paid off. Having the light on the pistol frees up my support hand for other things (opening doors, moving items, supporting other officers, climbing ladders/steep steps, etc). In other situations, I do not like to use a light on my pistol. It does draw attention and give any , who wish to harm you , an aiming reference. Just because you have a light on your piatol, doesnt mean it cant be taken off and used separately. I have known of several people that carry a tac light in their pocket and use it just like any other flashlight, except that it can be attached to the weapon if needed.

When I was in Iraq, a light on your rifle was a must. We couldnt mount lights to our Berettas because they did not have rails. If they did, we would have probably mounted lights on them too. When I spoke of the lights giving the bad guys a target reference, I learned this in the sandbox. If the bad guys were within eyesight of you and they saw your white light or someone spark up a cigarette( learn the hard way), they would start shooting at you. Heck, they would shoot at us at night because they heard our vehicles. Light discipline was extremely important and IR was your friend. I think that is why I am still hesitant to use a lot of light. Old habits die hard.

Like Zerodefect, I also love my Surefire E2D, but I chose the LED model. I blew too many incandescent surefire bulbs while I was deployed to go back to them. For an all purpose , tough, and reliable light, the E2D is hard to beat.
 
It's better to have it and not need it than vice versa. I still haven't put anything on a railed pistol, but I don't see any reason to not have it.


Dang, when will people learn that illuminating a target does not equal pointing a light at it?
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Indoors, maybe. If you go outside to investigate a bump in the night, you'll be really limiting yourself using indirect light pointed at the ground. There's greater distances involved and much less value to reflected light with no white walls and ceilings around. Go outside at night and shine your flashlight at the grass. Won't do you much good outside of a very short radius, except to ruin your night vision.
 
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I too keep a light on my nightstand gun. My house has plenty of 'night lights' for the express purpose of being able to identify people without turning on the real lights. So for me, if I feel the need to check something out with the gun instead of just regular flashlight I'll also feel the need to come to the high ready and cover whatever it is with my muzzle. I also practice to keep the light off until I'm covering the target (Night sights help a lot for this). That way whomever it may be is suddenly blinded by a strobe light, which gives me a few heartbeats to positively identify them as a stranger and inventory whatever weapons they may have then act accordingly.

Also I know indirect lighting doesn't work as well outdoors, but there is nothing in my yard I'm afraid to point my weapon directly at in order to identify. If it does turn out to be a friendly my finger will have never come inside the trigger guard and the safety will have never come off, so no harm done. Like anyone I severely dislike pointing weapons at people I'm not willing to shoot, but I've been flagged by enough friendly loaded weapons in the military during engagements to know that it wont hurt if I don't pull the trigger.
 
I too have a pistol that have a light attached to, and it's on my night stand.

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I think it has a lot good thing's going for it, most of all the strobe effect that has allready been mentioned.

and holster wise I modified my own, and before you ask it doesn't have any special retention and no I don't usually put it on if I think someone is in my house, it mostly either gets hung on a bed post or worn when I'm out in the country or doing some sort of training, I'm getting a safafriland eventually, but this works for now.

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I always have a TLR-1(s) on my home defense handgun. Point the muzzle/light at the floor, turn it on and you'll see how it still lights up everything in front of you without pointing the muzzle at someone/something.

I have a handheld as a back-up but being able to use a rail mounted light while having my handgun at the ready and still be able to open a door, move objects, turn on lights and move family members to another room is an advantage IMO.

Train properly for a rail mounted light and you'll find there are no disadvantages.

As for CCW, the only gun I currently have with a rail that gets carried is a PX4sc. I use the Insight XML that I recently upgraded with the LED bezel. Its nice for a trip or family vacation since the light can be mounted for "HD" use at the destination. Carrying with a light mounted makes it much harder for holster selection while adding more bulk and weight so I don't see the advantage unless your LE.
 
@ THE DRILL INSTRUCTOR: I use night lights too. I sleep better in complete darknes but prefer the ability to see well enough to locate/identify a possible threat.
 
I have to search buildings and areas frequently at night, as I wear a big-city PD badge, and work 2200-0600 HRS. The most important light is the one in my support hand, the second most important light is the spare hand-held light in my back pocket, and the third most important light is the one mounted on the pistol.

Yes, indeed, indirect light IS a factor. If one has only the light on the weapon, it is possible to illuminate things without pointing the weapon directly at them. Even so, a hand-held light is a very good thing to have.

Indirect light is also why it is a mistake to believe one can hold a hand-held light away from one's body, and not (usually) give away one's position. Anytime one switches a light on in the dark, it is possible that one is going to draw fire, so act accordingly.

Just my rambling few cents' worth, as I sit here moonlighting in the daylight, using this iPad to keep myself awake.
 
When I can afford to make my ccw and HD guns separate, by getting another gun, a light will be on the HD gun. I prefer nothing on my ccw. I think laser grips would be a better option than a rail mounted one, for those who use them.
 
I have one handgun with a light rail. It is my newest handgun and I love it. I have had lights on shotguns and ARs but never a railed handgun till I got the Sig Scorpion in trade (it's NIB so good trade) and am going to fit a M3 when needed. I will use this gun for CCW with the light on a rail mount on my mag holder, which is cool because it has a couple rails on it for just that. I am a die hard 1911 fan and never thought I would get a railed one till this trade came up and now I find I have a bunch of uses for it like when I hunt having a tac light availale if needed, and as a night stand gun with the light left on it at night. And to carry to have it if needed. I am not a cop and will train myself well enough to find how to mount it quickly enough for my uses.

I can also use the same might on my remmy 870 which also has a light rail. I have 5 other 1911s I carry that don't have a rail so have plenty of carry fodder for those times I don't feel I need a light.
 
I'd rather have my pistol in my holster on my belt. Never draw your weapon unless you'll need it and all that blah blah.
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Me too, but I don't wear a belt while I sleep.

There are two different scenarios here; carrying during the day vs. waking up to an intruder in the house. On the former, I agree; if it is in a holster on my belt, I can check things out with it right there. The OP seems to be commenting on any/all guns, but then says that he'll want a light on a HD weapon, so I'm confused. I certainly agree with his fourth point on concealed carry. I have a list of reasons that keep me from mounting a light on my daily, and that's one of the primary reasons that I would not go for my daily carry if I wake up to an intruder in the house; it is not set up for that situation. My go-to gun for that, doesn't fit in any holster. This is where we're obviously talking about different things. Therefore his point #2 about holsters does not apply and neither does #3 about needless remounting. Mount it to the appropriate weapon, and for the most part, leave it alone.

The OP's point #1 was what I posted about, and I was referring to a HD weapon. Again, it sort of appears that he agrees with that, but then again, he has some statements in his OP that don't make sense when compared to the last sentence he writes. I can't make much sense of it.
Indoors, maybe. If you go outside to investigate a bump in the night...
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Indoors, definitely. Nobody mentioned going outside until you did. It is derailing this thread from the indoor security check, to apparently a counter assault to retake the neighborhood. That's a different situation altogether. As I mentioned above, I was commenting on the use of a HD pistol. A handgun might not be the best option if you are going to hunt down a threat on open ground. If I felt that whatever threat I'm dealing with is outside, I'm not going out there. But for discussion's sake, lets just say that I felt like GI Joe and I decided to wage war in my yard against an unknown number of combatants. Simply put, I'm not going to take my pistol. I'm taking a shoulder weapon, and yep, it also has a light mounted to it. So I guess that, if I'm pursuing a threat outdoors with a shoulder weapon, pointing my light, and yes my gun at it, shouldn't be particularly taboo in that moment.
 
@ Mike1234567: I also sleep in total darkness. I keep the door closed and usually locked, and then if I have to go check something out my eyes are adjusted to the dark so well that the nightlights make it seem very bright.
 
Being fortunate enough to have a home range where I can shoot during low light and darkness, for some years I have practiced and experimented with what works and what doesn't work very well with gun mounted lasers and lights during low light and darkness.

Without going into a long thing, I have found that lasers, like Crimson Trace Laser Grips, lights and better yet, laser/lights like the Streamlight TLR-2 are outstanding additions to the defense gun. Properly used they enable a knowledgeable shooter to make fast accurate shots that he can't make any other way.

Bottom line, I attempt to mount lasers, lights, or laser/lights on all my defense long guns and handguns.

What is as important as what's on the gun, is learning to use the light or laser properly, and that's not like you see in the movies.


So the rail question. Yes, in most cases I want a rail on the gun.

I even installed a rail on my little walking around the place at night critter gun.
Using just the light, only the laser, or both laser and light, the little gun is deadly in low light or darkness.:)
TLR2andironsights.gif
 
Mike1234567 said:
^^^ Hunt down a threat:confused::eek:
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Yes, if sounds of an assault are coming from the other end of the bedroom hallway, where my sister-in-law and nephew sleep, or the west part of the house, where my father-in-law lives, I will indeed go on the offensive, and hunt for the threat.

If I am the first responding LEO, and the sounds of deadly assault are to be heard, I will indeed go hunting for the threat, even if alone. I will have four or five light when doing this.
 
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