To lube or not to lube?

[Abran]

When me and my dad first got I to reloading he was all about the lee carbide dies since you supposedly didn’t have to lube the cases... well I ruined a .308 resizing die years ago and just tonight ruined the decapping pin from my 8x57 Mauser resizing die....

Do I have to lube my cases contrary to what my dad taught me or am I doing something else seriously wrong? Part of the problem with the .308 was undersized primer holes from rp brass, but the 8mm has been reloaded once before and was ultrasonic cleaned and tumbled before trying to resize... but the first case stuck and took hammering on the decapping pin to remove, which bent the decapping pin....

 

[ColtPythonElite]

You have carbide rifle dies?

 

[warnerwh]

Yes if you don't have carbide rifle dies you will stick a case as you know. Some lube is absolutely necessary with steel dies.

 

[Highland Lofts]

I lube all necked cases. Even with straight walled cases when useing carbide dies I will spray them periodically.

 

[Jim Watson]

Even if you have a carbide sizing die - unlikely for 8x57, and very expensive for the few cartridges they are made for, you must lubricate cases. A bottleneck case is in full contact with the sizing die, too much area not to lube. A pistol carbide die only has a narrow carbide ring against the straight case.

Sorry OP, you misunderstood what Dad said.

 

[kelbro]

Carbon steel dies might be what your dad said. Yes, you need to lube the brass.

 

[edwardware]

Carbide dies (even IF you had carbide rifle dies, which you don't) still require lube for FL sizing bottleneck cases.

"No lube because carbide" only applies to straight wall cases, mostly pistol calibers.

Start with a small can of Imperial sizing wax. You'll be amazed at how easy it goes.

 

[cfullgraf]

There are one or two bottle neck rifle cartridges that one can get in carbide but they are designed for the HIGH volume loader who would wear out a steel die. The dies still need to have the cases lubricated, and they are very expen$ive. Dillon makes a couple.

As already said straight walled handgun cases have a carbide size die option. They can be used without lubricating the cases but many find a little bit of lubricant makes the resizing process easier.

The OP needs to lubricate his rifle cases before sizing.

 

[lordpaxman]

Welcome to THR! You’ll get a lot of useful advice here.

Most die companies have carbide pistol dies, but few have carbide rifle dies. I wasn’t aware Lee had them. It’s possible you have some carbide pistol dies and just steel rifle dies which is much more common. There are various lubes available, you have to use enough, but not too much otherwise you’ll get shoulder dents in the case. These aren’t detrimental, just a sign you have too much lube.
If you’re new to reloading, hopefully you’ll read one of Dad’s reloading books, they have good information regarding this topic. Good luck!

 

[Abran]

Ok, lube it is! At least once my new pin comes in....

i may have misunderstood him or he might have misunderstood, we started reloading at the same time. He did reload some .270 but mostly .45, and he used a collet die for the .270. I reload some 9 but mostly 8mm Mauser and .223, and haven’t done any reloading in a long time

 

[jmorris]

Lee doesn’t make carbide rifle dies. Dillon makes a few but none are 8mm.

https://www.dillonprecision.com/carbide-rifle-dies-individual-three-die-sets_8_4_24498.html

and you still have to use lube with them.

You don’t have to lube with carbide pistol dies but even then it makes things so smooth, I still do it, despite it not being a necessity, like with bottle neck rifle cases.

 

[JJFitch]

Like math reading instructions is hard! Take a deep breath , you can do it...
Smiles,

 

[Typetwelve]

I agree with what is being said...brass that requires considerable force to resize gets lubed, no exception. Carbide dies or no...doesn't matter. I do not lube rounds like 9mm or 38 spcl but 223, 44 magnum, and 460 S&W? Absolutely.

Now, with that said, I've been on the prowl for a good resizing lube. I started with Dillon spray on...and that stuff is just a mess. When I got a 223 case jammed in my resizing die, I moved to Lee "cream" lube...that worked but it was an even bigger mess.

Finally, I landed up with imperial sizing wax and their dry neck lube. The sizing wax is superb and makes resizing a chonker like 460 S&W much easier. The neck dry lube is great for 223.

 

[mdi]

I have 19 die sets, 12 handgun and 7 rifle and none of the rifle dies are carbide, but all handgun dies incorporate a carbide sizing ring. There are some hand gun cases that size much easier when lube is used, but most do not (44 Magnum cases size much better when every third or fourth case has some lube in it). IIRC there are some premium neck sizing dies that use bushings made of carbide or carbide inserts, but that is beyond my expertise and experience...

 

[horsemen61]

Start with a small can of Imperial sizing wax. You'll be amazed at how easy it goes.

I lube everything that way I can’t forget to lube anything!

 

[dcarr]

I only reload pistol straight wall cartridges, 9mm to 45 colt, all dies carbide, lube nothing but that will change right after i get something stuck i suspect

 

[jmorris]

I only reload pistol straight wall cartridges, 9mm to 45 colt, all dies carbide, lube nothing but that will change right after i get something stuck i suspect

I loaded for around 25 years the same way, until someone talked me into lubing 100 pistol cases, just to see what it felt like. Now I lube everything.

 

[Abran]

Yeah, stuck cases really can change your mind quick...

 

[Obturation]

I don't lube 357, 45 colt, 454 casull. I do lube 45-70, 30-30 & 338 lapua. If it feels stiff, I lube them

 

[Toprudder]

The only bottleneck rifle carbide dies I know of are the ones Dillon makes. Lee does technically make a carbide rifle sizing die, but it is 30 carbine, so not bottleneck, but even so they do say to use lube in their instructions.

For bottleneck brass, I like the Redding sizing dies with the optional carbide expander. I still like to put a little lube in the necks, but the carbide expander makes it less critical, and smoother operation as well.

 

[coondogger]

Lube the cases before sticking 'em in a sizing/decapping die. Never mind the 'carbide' marketing folderol. Dealing with stuck case is far more time consuming than dabbing a bit of zip and shine on a few pieces of brass.

 

[MikeInOr]

I have Dillon .308 and .223 carbide resizing dies. They do make a noticable difference as far as less force needed to resize the cases. i ALWAYS lube all bottle neck cases even when using the Dillon carbide rifle dies. Hornady on shot lube doesn't cut it on rifle cartridges for me, I use a real lube like RCBS, Dillon or one of the other lanolin lubes. I only use one shot for pistol cases with carbide dies... but still prefer one of the other lubes.

The tendancy seems to be to go from no lube to WAY too much lube... at least it was that way for me. A little lube goes a very long way!

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

This will make life easier.

 

[Walkalong]

I used to never lube handgun cases, considered it good exercise for my throwing arm, but I have gotten older, the joints especially have gotten older, and a bit of lube on every few 9MM cases in a long run sure is nice now.

 

[dcarr]

I used to never lube handgun cases, considered it good exercise for my throwing arm, but I have gotten older, the joints especially have gotten older, and a bit of lube on every few 9MM cases in a long run sure is nice now.

I hear you about getting older. One of the major reasons I still reload is to drop the recoil down on the pistols, Took me awhile but I even changed the grips on the blackhawks so they were not so snappy.