To scout scope or not to scout scope...

[Blakk]

To scout scope or not to scout scope that is the question.

I have a Marlin 1895G in 45/70 and been thinking of putting on a scout scope like so many other people have done with this gun. I've never used a scout scope before, and after shopping them for quite some time, I find it surprising the lack of many to pick from and the relative high price in the $300 range for a fixed power, low magnification scope. It can't be because of the longer eye relief, handgun scopes as a rule aren't that expensive. So what are the pros and the cons of a scout scope for my 45/70 1895G?

Am I missing the boat on something here? I want to try one out, tell me why I should or shouldn't please.

 

[heeler]

I understand the concept of a bolt action carbine with a forward mounted scope with very good eye relief.
As an owner of a Marlin 336 carbine(pre crossbolt safety thank you) which is fairly close to what you have in a round about way excepting caliber,I wanted a light,short scope with decent eye relief that did "over scope" the whole idea of a carbine,so I chose the Burris Timberline 2x7x26 mounted on a Weaver rail with Millet low rings and could not be happier with the results.
So my opinion is that the look of a scout scope on your 1895 would be more form than function.
It will work mind you but since the Marlin side ejects why bother looking for a scope that is so specialized for a hunting rifle like your 1895??
But if it's a look you want for your rifle then go for it.

 

[Robert Wilson]

I like IER scopes very much. The only disadvantages, IMO, are 1) that they don't collect as much light as high quality scopes with larger objectives and moderate magnification, and 2) some situations do benefit from higher magnification.

#2 is unimportant for your gun, IMO. By the time 2.5x isn't enough for a .45-70 levergun, you are essentially guessing at holdover. #1 may be critical, however. If you spend a lot of time hunting at dusk or dawn, or in very heavy forest, you may find Scout scopes too dim.

In the advantage column, IER scopes are, IMO, the very fastest aiming systems available, they are very easy to use with both eyes open (no more "getting lost in the scope" and waving the gun all over the countryside trying to locate your target) and they completely eliminate the possibility of getting whacked in the forehead, which is a very real concern if you are using heavy loads in your Marlin.

The Leupold scope is relatively expensive, BTW, because it's a great scope. All of mine have been utterly reliable, have stood up to use on guns as large as the .505 Gibbs, have accurate and repeatable adjustments, and very high quality coatings. I don't consider the cost at all excessive, considering they are almost certain to outlive me.

 

[Blakk]

Well I have a .300 weatherby mag with a real high powered scope I use when Im watching over a field, and expecting long shots. The 45/70 I use for mainly in the woods hunting, where shots will almost certainly be 100 yards or under. And frequently there is heavy brush and new growth polar thicker than hair on a dogs back to hunt in. To my knowledge the scout scopes were made for the quick shot, close range type of situation, which I thought might be what I'd want for the conditions I use the gun in.

 

[heeler]

As I said it will work.
However remember what was said about how they do(can) give up some low light performance and that's just what you need in thick predawn and late dusk conditions in a heavily wooded area.
You can still put a scout scope on your Marlin and if you later find it's not quite what you were expecting you can always sell it and try something more conventional.

 

[Blakk]

For many people who go the route of putting on a scout scope on their 45/70 Marlin guide guns is not only for the looks, but because of the huge recoil this gun has if you fire the hotter loaded rounds the gun can handle. Getting ones eye as far away from that scope as possible so you don't get hit by it, is a good thing. =)

 

[heeler]

I get what your saying and this is the reason that I dont like scopes that have less than 3.5 inches of eye relief.
The more the better and this is one reason I like Leupold scopes so much.

 

[rbernie]

IER scope setups would seem to have the following characteristics:

• Scope location does not impede receiver port (loading/ejecting)
• Rifle balance shifts to forward of the front receiver ring
• Rifle can more easily be carried afield by wrapping a mitt around the receiver
• Scope will not impact shooter's face under heavy recoil
• Forward mounting limits the scope's field of view
• Limited field of view dictates lower magnification than a rearward mounted scope

I prefer scout setups for short-range guns because I find that they 'point' better/faster for me than rearward mounted scopes. I believe that this is due to the fact that I'm not finding the target via the scope, but instead finding the target via my MkII eyeballs and then using the scope to find a specific aiming point. This specific attribute has value when still hunting in brush or hilly terrain but has less value when shooting longer distances or from a supported position.

If your intended uses for the rifle places an emphasis on still hunting, then a scout setup may be of interest. If you are predominantly shooting from a static position or at longer ranges, then a scout style mounting may not work out so well.

 

[greyling22]

I scout mounted my 1894 in 44 mag. I really like it. fast and easy to acquire a target and not so much magnification as to feel like you need a rest. And besides, the rear notch sights are starting to get blurry on me....

I put on a 2x leupold m8 pistol scope. $150 shipped used off gunbroker. It's not quite at nice as my buddy's burris scout scope, but it cost half as much. You can adjust the eye relief by loosening the lock ring and screwing the eye piece in or out.

 

[Blakk]

I appreciate the posts you guys have made on this subject. I think I'm going to put on the X Rail scout mount, and now currently shopping for which scope I want to mount on the gun.

 

[rcmodel]

I put a Leupold M8 pistol scope on my 1894P Marlin in the XS Lever-Scout mount.
I really like it!!

You can pick up a used M8 on Evilbay for around a hundred bucks.

As for use in low light?
It is easily brighter, with better resolution, then the naked eye without it.

Brightness, or low light capability is directly related to "Exit Pupil" size.
The human eye can actually use no more then a 7mm exit pupil on any scope.

A 28mm x 2x scope like the M8 has a 14mm exit pupil, so is twice as bright as your eye can possibly use.

rc

 

[ReadyontheRight]

If your intended uses for the rifle places an emphasis on still hunting, then a scout setup may be of interest. If you are predominantly shooting from a static position or at longer ranges, then a scout style mounting may not work out so well.

EXACTLY!

I like a scout scope setup for walking around because it gives me quite an edge over iron sights, but it's still easy to carry and very fast to point.

When sitting in a stand, I like a bigger scope.

 

[eddism]

Perhaps you might like a holographic sight with a flip-to-the-side magnifier.
I can imagine where this kind of rig would quickly get you on target in close and drop you a bull from afar. Also, they can be purchased for around what you want to spend for a mid-priced scout.

 

[Robert Wilson]

Brightness, or low light capability is directly related to "Exit Pupil" size.
The human eye can actually use no more then a 7mm exit pupil on any scope.

A 28mm x 2x scope like the M8 has a 14mm exit pupil, so is twice as bright as your eye can possibly use.

Exit pupil isn't the whole story, as can be demonstrated by looking through a 2.5x scope with a 20mm objective and an equal quality 9x scope with a 42mm objective. The 2.5x has more exit pupil but you will see far better in dim light with the 9x. I know from personal use that my Leupold Scout scopes are not nearly as bright as my Leupold 4x and 6x scopes, and when I know I'll be hunting in low light I leave my beloved IER scopes at home.

 

[thunder173]

My Dad musta been a genius, and waaaayyy ahead of his time!!

I have his pre-64 Winchester 94 in 30 WCF,...it shoots great still btw,..and guess what he had/has on it? A 2X that looks like maybe a 22 mm tuber, Weaver, long eye relief scope that's been there since he bought the gun back in the 50's,.....it's mounted forward ,...ala "scout" style. Works as good for me as it ever did for him. A real quick shooter.

 

[Blakk]

Sounds like your Dad was one of the original scout scope guys, =)

 

[thunder173]

Blakk: Maybe so,...he for sure was a "Scout".....(as in Scoutmaster)..........

He never owned any other centerfire rifle, except the ones Uncle Sam let him use in WWII,...and I have seen him make shots with that old Winchester 94 that I wouldn't even attempt.

 

[heeler]

Your Dear old Dad was a man who new his gun Thunder.
A lot of those old El Paso made Weaver scopes are still being used every season.
Hell my brother hunts with a guy who inherited his dad's old 760 Remington pump in .300 Savage that has a late 1950's Lyman scope that has not had to be resighted in years.
Gotta love stories like these!!

 

[geologist]

I have a Leupold 2.5x IER in low Burris Zee QD rings on an XS Scout mount. Great setup and lets me shoot to POA out to 200yards with Leverevolution 300 gr ammo. The scout mount and QDs allow me to switch over to my ghost ring sight quickly.

 

[Blakk]

That was another question that I had. Are the scout scopes and the setup as accurate as the typical scope setup. Sounds like you guys do alright with yours.

 

[thunder173]

I use that Winchester of my Dad's every now and then, ...though not hard and not often,...But what I find truly amazing is that I have not had to adjust the scopes setting from where my dad had it set for him before he passed away in 79. So,...it has held that zero since before 1979!!! Gotta be some kinda record for sure. I'd be almost afraid to adjust it at this point.

 

[Blakk]

Reminds me of words old grandpa used to say, "They sure don't make them the way they used to!"

Since we showing guns, this is mine. Marlin 1895G in .45/70



The next picture I'll ever show of this gun will have different optics on top.

 

[ironhead7544]

Concerning accuracy, on Sunday I shot 2 groups that went 3/4 inch at 100 yards using the Burris Scout Scope. Rifle is a scout type Ruger M77MKII in 308 using the Federal 150 gr SP from Wally World. This was from a good bench rest, and with a Timney trigger.

 

[Chrontius]

It seems like there's a big market for Leupold to put out a version of the VX-L series with less magnification and longer eye relief. 5cm low-profile objective? I'd go for it.