Tom Delay = Bad for the Cause

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StrikeFire83

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So I turn on the national news and what do I see? A video of the Houston NRA meeting with their SPECIAL GUEST, none other than Tom Delay.

Now the NRA does a lot of things that I don't like, but I'm willing to forgive most of them because of the great job they do protecting my beloved Second Amendment. But keeping Delay as their keynote speaker is just not very smart. Knowing how the media loves to construe gun owners, Lapierre should know better then to put a man like Delay at the forefront of his conference. It’s just bad politics.

And before everybody accuses me of being a bleeding heart liberal, keep in mind that I’m from Texas. For years I’ve been aware of Delay’s bull$hit on a number of fronts. At best the man’s an ethics violator/liability and at worst he’s a criminal. I don’t want the scandals surrounding him to be connectable in ANY way to the fight to maintain gun rights.
 
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If the Republican party is smart, they better unload radicals and crooks like DeLay, or they will suffer the inevitable back lash of the middle of the road public.
 
You've bought the left-wing propaganda hook, line, and sinker.

Delay did nothing wrong, and he did nothing just about every other congresscritter has done. He's an effective and powerful republican leader, throwing him under the bus would be a huge victory for the left.
 
The Repubs need a lot more radicals and as for Delay what exactly is the crime he supposedly committed? Oh, yeah, he makes a good target for the Dems simply be existing.
 
Didn't Delay save our butts more than once lately? Didn't he make sure AWB II never reached the House floor? I too sort of cringed when I saw all of the references to him and the NRA, but that is exactly what the left wants. Hasn't Delay stood by us this whole time? Don't we deserve to do the same for him? :scrutiny:
 
Yeah, I haven't heard enough to convince me DeLay actually did anything wrong yet. So far, I've heard he hired his wife and daughter and paid them with private donations. Which, apparently, numerous other congressman do as well. If he has done nothing wrong, the Republican party owes it to him to stand by him. Ditching him would be gutless and wrong. And stupid, since he's apparently an effective leader.
 
Delay has gone a little native since going to DC, but he is the best guy --bar none-- to get something done in the House and elsewhere, politically speaking.

What is a "little native?" Well, he does things like hire family to work his campaigns. Is this shady or smart? It is not illegal or considered unethical inside the beltway. Heck there are many Dems, some in leadership positions, who are doing the same. Why is it that there are no co-ordinated NYT & WaPo hit articles on THEM?

Delay is being targeted because he is the most effective conservative politician in Washington. If Republicans & conservatives scapegoat him, the NEXT most effective conservative advocate will be targeted.

Rahm Emanuel [Clinton's former politcal aide & current leader of the Dem House re-election committee] has stated publicly his intention to use lawsuits and ethics filings to help him win the Dems seats in 2006. His is a work in progess and we are currently seeing some of its rotten fruit.

It is a fool's act to seek approval from those that despise you. The fact that so many leftists loathe Delay is proof in his defense that he is doing good work.
 
I don't know exactly what Delay's done on the Second Amendment front recently, but I know that a renewed Assault Weapons Ban had NO CHANCE of coming to the House floor as it's composed now with a strong Republican majority.

As for what Delay's done wrong here in Texas, the list is long indeed.

1) He set up a NON-POLITICAL fund raising machine and then secretly funneled the money into the 2004 campaigns for Republican state senators and reps, including that of a corrupt rep who lost to a crappy Democratic candidate solely because of his corruption alone was so overwhelming.

2) A group of Texan investors, key Delay supporters, screwed a group of Native-Americans out of millions of dollars on the promise that they'd develop a casino. The casino was never built and the indians' money went to Delay's and other campaigns.

3) He led the charge for Redistricting here in Texas, which drew rediculous precinct lines to get more Republicans elected. We're already beating the pants off of the Dems here in Texas and we didn't need redistricting, and now liberals constantly bitch about "undemocratic" practices which were never needed in the first place.

Not to mention THREE 'business' trips that Delay took at the behest of FOREIGN corporations for favorable outsourcing legislation support. He clearly violated the "no gifts" clause with his actions.

I don't want this kind of slime associated with the PUBLIC gun rights fight, even if he has been supportive of the NRA recently. The next time I have to debate some hemp-wearing fool about necessity of gun-rights here at my university all we're gonna talk about is how the NRA supported somebody like Delay.
 
Based on what I've read in the popular press what Delay did is not illegal - it does look like he stretched the bounds of ethics a bit, maybe more than the norm for DC. The NRA bringing him to the convention is stupid, regardless of what good he’s done for gun rights. He’s a lighting rod for negative press right now – and associating that negativity with the NRA isn’t what any of want or need.
 
I'd say given who is prosecuting him in the courts of justice and public opinion, I'd give Delay the benefit of the doubt up to the point he is convicted of a criminal matter, if that ever happens.

I'd hate to have some of the people here watching my six. :rolleyes:
 
Near as I can tell, all NRA did is have the House Majority Leader speak solely on the topic of gun ownership. DeLay is innocent until proven guilty and should be business-as-usual until convicted or asked to step down by his own party. NRA withdrawal of the invitation would have been tantamount to pronouncing him guilty and persona non grata. Not very American, if you ask me. Imagine the backlash in support at the House level. It is not NRA's mission to suddenly make DeLay's issues their top priority to the detriment of their main cause. Had the invitation not already been in place, I don't doubt that discretion would have resulted in a different person being invited to speak. Either that or he would have been invited anyway as a gesture of support in return for his efforts to protect the RKBA.

Note that DeLay's address stuck to the topic of NRA business, so it is inappropriate to project any other baggage onto him in an NRA context. If determined to hate the guy, he can't do anything right, nor can his friends.

Most of all, don't be naive about what politicians can do legitimately. Some of those things may not play well with the voter public in a cold light, but one person cannot hang separately.
 
When, and ONLY when

the Dems concede to forcing Senators Byrd, and Kennedy into political retirement may there be any sort of legal or moral call from them to oust ANY member of ANY other political party.

:fire:
 
I think it is great that this is all the dems have to pick on. With their long list of improprieties, DeLay looks like a saint. And this is all they can find to whine about.
 
The dems have failed to bring any evidence of a criminal act by Delay.

They are assassinating his character and at the same time they are preventing the house ethics committee from meeting to address the issue.

Delay hasn't broken the rules. If we run away from an representative the the left demonizes, then the left effectively controls the government.

The dems are acctively slandering Delay, while at the same time preventing him from being able to defend himself in the proper forum, the house ethics committee.

If the Dems continue to prevent the committee from meeting, they are the ones that should pay the price, but the media won't report on that. Very few people seem to even be aware that they are blocking the committee from meeting.
 
Read the mainstream press and you'll swear DeLay is a corrupt mob boss. Read the alternative media and you hear he is a piker compared to the likes of Feinstein, Boxer, Reid, et al.

One thing I am aware of. Democrats periodically will put out a political hit on their most effective opponents. They will then approve of the selection of leadership spinelessrepublicans choose. Gingrich--hit, Livingston--hit, Hastert--acceptable, Lott--hit (he should have lost his job over his pathetic performance during impeachment, not for his weasel words during Thurmond's birthday), Frist--acceptable.

Frankly neither Haster nor Frist have impressed me, but there they are leading spinelessrepublicans. We now see the same tactics at play with DeLay. He ain't no choir boy and neither is Harry Reid. This is a problem because spinelessrepublican leadership will stand for nothing. DeLay plays hardball and Democrats can't tolerate it and spinelessrepublicans are embarrassed. If that means DeLay gets to tread water so be it.

Just once I like to see national spinelessrepublicans stand up and fight publicly for anything.
 
I think Ted Nugent running around yapping about wanting to kill people is more damaging than DeLay:

Apr 17, 8:46 PM (ET)


(AP) Ted Nugent attending The 2005 International Consumer Electronics Show at the Las Vegas Convention... Full Image

HOUSTON (AP) - With an assault weapon in each hand, rocker and gun rights advocate Ted Nugent urged National Rifle Association members to be "hardcore, radical extremists demanding the right to self defense."

Speaking at the NRA's annual convention Saturday, Nugent said each NRA member should try to enroll 10 new members over the next year and associate only with other members.

"Let's next year sit here and say, 'Holy smokes, the NRA has 40 million members now,'" he said. "No one is allowed at our barbecues unless they are an NRA member. Do that in your life."

Nugent sang and played a guitar painted with red and white stripes for the crowd at Houston's downtown convention center.

He drew the most cheers when he told gun owners they should never give up their right to bear arms and should use their guns to protect themselves if needed.

"Remember the Alamo! Shoot 'em!" he screamed to applause. "To show you how radical I am, I want carjackers dead. I want rapists dead. I want burglars dead. I want child molesters dead. I want the bad guys dead. No court case. No parole. No early release. I want 'em dead. Get a gun and when they attack you, shoot 'em."


Not that Ted is wrong, but this sort of hyperbole only gives the antis ammunition. He could have said the exact same thing in a much more tactful fashion.
 
Look at Newt Gingrich in the 1990s... over 500+ ethics complaints filed against him (over 400 in a single year) and he was found guilty of no wrong-doing in all but one of them. That doesn't make the one incident any less serious; but when it takes you 500 rounds to hit your target, you must not have had much of a target to begin with.

1) He set up a NON-POLITICAL fund raising machine and then secretly funneled the money into the 2004 campaigns for Republican state senators and reps, including that of a corrupt rep who lost to a crappy Democratic candidate solely because of his corruption alone was so overwhelming.

First, Texas law allows campaign donations of that type to be used for administrative functions. The question at issue is whether throwing a party for people who donate constitutes an administrative function. The Travis County prosecutor that indicted Delay is a member of the same county Democrat organization as Bill Burkett (forged CBS document guy) and has indicted other prominent Republicans such as Senator Kay Bailey Hutchinson in the past to no effect.

Campaign law is a cloudy issue at best and I am willing to let the lawyers fight that one out; but as far as I can see no one has proved Delay did anything illegal. I'd also be loathe to call throwing parties "overwhelming corruption".

2) A group of Texan investors, key Delay supporters, screwed a group of Native-Americans out of millions of dollars on the promise that they'd develop a casino. The casino was never built and the indians' money went to Delay's and other campaigns.

And Delay is responsible for what his supporters did? If Delay was involved then let's see the evidence. Otherwise, he isn't responsible for what his supporters did any more than I am responsible for what my friends do.

3) He led the charge for Redistricting here in Texas, which drew rediculous precinct lines to get more Republicans elected.

Give me a break... ridiculous precinct lines have been all that allowed the Democrats to hold on to a majority in the Texas legislature. Texas is one of the more Republican-leaning states in the Union and until 2002, the majority of Texans in the House of Representatives were Democrats due to the ridiculous gerrymandering of districts. Despite this, the Republicans finally won a majority and decided to implement the same strategy. Take a look at the past 10 Presidential elections... the Republican candidate won Texas by what percentage? How about elections to the Texas Senate (John Cornyn won by how much?). Gubernatorial elections anyone?

Yet you are suggesting here that it is somehow unethical or unfair to redraw Texas districts to reflect the strong support that Republicans enjoy in statewide elections where districts can't be gerrymandered?

Sen. Harry Reid (the Senate Minority Leader) has four sons AND a son-in-law working for Nevada lobbyists. Hughes Corp. paid his son-in-law $300,000 to lobby for a deal that would allow them to purchase prime federal land in metropolitan Las Vegas. Sen. Reid introduced the bill in Congress and got it passed into law. The law firms his sons work at have received more than $2 million from special interests lobbying the Senator.

All of that was in 2003 and not only was it not a major press scandal (receiving notice only in the LA Times before vanishing like a stone dropped in water), the very next year the Democrats elected him as Senate Majority Leader. By contrast, Delay paid $500,000 to relatives using his own campaign funds and it is a major scandal.

I can't say whether or not Delay is an ethical politician because I haven't seen enough information to make that case. What I do know is that Delay has always stood firm for Second Amendment rights and that this current muckraking is motivated by political partisanship more than any dedication to ethics.
 
DeLay is a POLITICIAN. He does what POLITICIANS do. Democrats are out of power and out of favor with a rapidly increasing core of Democrats. They are doing what they do best; demonize the opposition with the things that they are well aquainted with themselves. They have credibility to accuse, for they roll in the same catnip. Democratic leadership should consider changing the name of their party to the American Socialist Party.

Hell, their leadership (Dingy Harry) has been quoted even in the mainstream media that their (Democrat) policy is to be obstructionistic, argumenative, disingenuous, accusative etc and to not offer any alternatives.

DeLay has broken what law?

Don't like his methods? Well, dream on, Nirvana is not around the corner. As a Constitutional Republic (a form of democracy) it falls upon us to hire (elect) the men and women who are prepared to do whatever it takes to promote the platform. To any Democrat that has anything to say about DeLay, I say it takes one to know one.
 
Just cause the dems say its so, doesn't make it so. I think we better stand behind Tom Delay. He has been a friend to gun owners and second ammendment rights. The fact that he is addressing the NRA should say something.
 
3) He led the charge for Redistricting here in Texas, which drew rediculous precinct lines to get more Republicans elected. We're already beating the pants off of the Dems here in Texas and we didn't need redistricting, and now liberals constantly bitch about "undemocratic" practices which were never needed in the first place.

So prove to me that the redistricting is illegal or that it is not appropriate. Somehow, adding 5-7 seats over the next 7 years doesn't strike me as beating the pants of the Democrats. Districts that vote majority Republican should get a Republican rep, correct? Why is it ridiculous? Why do you care if we are beating the pants of the Democrats even worse now? Texas has just recently begun a trend of GOP controlled Congress delegations, before that the Dems held a majority for decades (they lost it only 10 years ago).
 
The Democrats don't want an ethics ruling because they would loose. When the Democrats get serious about Clinton rapes, Clinton fraud, Kennedy manslaughter, Kennedy rape, UN corruption, Kerry support of every Communist war of conquest, the whole Democrat party swearing to uphold the Constitution and then trying their best to tear it down....I will pay attention to them again.

When they are true to law and order and freedom, I will listen to them. While they are engaged in Orwellian doublespeak, I know that I am safe to believe the opposite of what they say. The attacks on Delay just mean he is effective......unless the Communist Party of the USA shows some real proof.
 
I am 100% behind Delay until he is found guilty of breaking some law.

This is nothing more than a democratic party hit on him until I see proof otherwise.
 
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