Tom Gresham: NG trooper said, "Turn [supplies] around or I will shoot and kill you"

[AZRickD]

I was driving around down and flipped on the syndicated radio show "Gun Talk" hosted by THR member Tom Gresham.

It was closing on the hour so I caught the tail end of a conversation. Tom said that one of his [acquantances] drove up to New Orleans with supplies and was told by a Nat't Guard trooper that if he didn't turn his vehicle around (he may have been towing a boat), "I will shoot and kill you."

Lovely.

Rather than pass on half of the story, I'd like Tom to fill us in and have others comment.

Rick

 

[kbr80]

 

[mete]

They won't permit individuals to enter the area.You must be part of an authorized group. This prevents chaos and unknowns from entering the area.Does the NG know who he is ? Is he a potential looter etc ??

 

[thorn726]

at this point, too much chaos,. i kinda agree the NG has no way to know whether he really intends to help or intends to take advantage

 

[kbr80]

Does not matter if the NG knows him or not. Threatning to Shoot and Kill someone is not right.

 

[thorn726]

ok yeah, good point, the "i will shoot" is unecessary.
i only agree with the not letting random people in part

 

[Rockstar]

Tom might have been a Commie terrorist, as far as the NG guy knew.

 

[Joejojoba111]

I guess this is how it goes, not enough people helped to clean the mess up, now no-one's allowed to help, and you'll be billed for it. Sort of like if you don't mow your lawn, the city will send someone to do it and charge you a couple hundred dollars.

 

[Battlespace]

I tend to agree on keeping out anyone who is not part of an organized relief effort. You can't every Tom, Dick, and Harry who own a boat running around. There has to be an organized search pattern. If he wants to help have him contact a relief organization and I am sure they will put him to work. It might not be doing some glamorous job, but it will be doing something that needs to be done.

 

[Joejojoba111]

I don't understand, you are afraid we'll save people too quickly? Is the traffic from rescue boats really an issue?

Why does the search pattern have to be organized? Why not impromptu and immediate? "Oh look, there's people there, lets get them." instead of "Oh look, there's people over there, let's tell the boss when we get back from our route so he can call his boss and they can approve a route which would get them."

"Hello relief organization? Yes I'd like to help. I have a boat and a trailer and I'm 30 miles from New Orleans-"
"Yes, I'll hold."
...
"Ok hello? Hi I have a boat and a trailer and I'm 30 miles from New Orleans-"
"Yes I have a credit card handy, why do you ask?"
"No I don't want to make a donation I want to HELP."
"Yes, I do have fax machine. What-"
"Ok I have the form here, what section do I fill out to use my boat? OK I'll hold."
...
"Yes hello I have a boat and a trailer and your 3e1 form and I'm 30 miles from New Orleans and I'd like to help."
"What do you mean authorization? It floats, what do you need? It's a flat-bottomed boat, it floats, yes I have life jackets, the boat floats what are you talking about? Yes I'll hold-"
...

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Does not matter if the NG knows him or not. Threatning to Shoot and Kill someone is not right.

You are absolutely right. The Governor had already ordered the NG to shoot to kill. Everyone should have known that. Warnings were uncalled for. The Guardsman should have told the driver once to turn around, and if the driver declined the Guardsman should have shot him without warning.

Warning, indeed!

 

[bg]

Lil off topic. Please forgive me, but I for one will remember this should a new
Admin/Congress deem all firearms must be confiscated in the future.

Who says the Military and Police wouldn't come after our weapons if
ordered..After all they would just be "following orders"..

I don't in any way mean to belittle the tragedy in the South.

 

[jefnvk]

I'll probably get flamed for this, in the way that I do everytime I question the claim of police brutality, or question an accusation put forward, but oh well.

My guess is that the man was told in more polite terms that he was not allowed in the area, and deadly force was authorized. Not 'turn the truck around, now, or die'.

 

[Coronach]

Indeed. most of the complaints of "officer was rude" or "officer threatened me" are easily understood when you look at the interaction that occurred prior to the threatening/rude comment. Usually the firm-but-rasonable preceeding comments of the cop and the asinine-and-unreasonable actions of the complainant are somehow left out. Might be the same sort of thing here.

Or, might not be. Can't say, wasn't there.

Martial law has been declared. NG troops should be able to shoot people who don't comply with their orders.

Mike

 

[kbr80]

Martial law has been declared

Unless I missed a news report, Martial Law has not been declared, by the president, of governor of any states damaged.

 

[Joejojoba111]

"Indeed. most of the complaints of "officer was rude" or "officer threatened me" are easily understood when you look at the interaction that occurred prior to the threatening/rude comment. Usually the firm-but-rasonable preceeding comments of the cop and the asinine-and-unreasonable actions of the complainant are somehow left out. Might be the same sort of thing here."

"People are drowning there. I have a boat here. This truck can get the boat from here to there. People will get in the boat, and stop drowning."

"-i have no idea what words a person could insert here after the preceding statement, but a trained bureaucrat here might be able to help fill them in-"

 

[Camel]

I don't understand, you are afraid we'll save people too quickly? Is the traffic from rescue boats really an issue?

Thy aren't letting people into NO for the same reason the fire department won't let you run into a burning building. It's a heroic gesture but in the end you're just one more goober that needs to be pulled out of the fire.

The last thing FEMA needs is a bunch of amateur heroes running around the city mucking things up.

 

[TallPine]

NG troops should be able to shoot people who don't comply with their orders.

Remember, you read it here on THR first....

 

[DorGunR]

My guess is that the man was told in more polite terms that he was not allowed in the area, and deadly force was authorized. Not 'turn the truck around, now, or die'.

I believe that's the way it really happened.

 

[spartacus2002]

The last thing FEMA needs is a bunch of amateur heroes running around the city mucking things up.

Yeah, because FEMA is doing such a wonderful job , such as turning away tractor trailers full of donated water last Wednesday.

I'd rather let amateur heroes do the job than professional bureaucrats led by a fired horse-judge commissioner -- which is what FEMA Director Brown was before his political bedfellows rescued him with a gummint job.

 

[Sean Smith]

Figures a vague story about somebody saying something, or not, to somebody, would turn into ideological wanking.

But no, time to whip out the tried and true OMG MOMMA THE JBTs ARE A-COMIN' silliness for yet another re-hash.

Anyway, how, exactly, is the NG supposed to impose order on a famously criminal-saturated, corruptly-policed city that is underwater, and where the principal hobby of the people above water seems to be shooting at rescue helicopters, supply deliveries & patients being evac'ed from hospitals? Give people who won't comply with their orders foot rubs?

 

[Hutch]

Straw man argument, Sean. If someone is visibly able to provide help/safety to the afflicted, have at it, I say. I doubt he looked like he was preparing to join in the pillaging.

The last thing FEMA needs is a bunch of amateur heroes running around the city mucking things up.

While I can't be certain (I'm not there), I'd wager somebody died yesterday of heat/dehydration due to lack of being rescued. Compared to that, what does it matter what FEMA needs? D'ya think the rescuees think it's being mucked up? Consider the reaction the bus-thief/hero got for his exploits. D'you think he should be commended for helping, or jailed for "mucking things up"? What if he'd had a wreck? What if he rescues people out of turn? See where this is headed?

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

Martial law has been declared. NG troops should be able to shoot people who don't comply with their orders.

"They should be able to shoot people who don't comply with their orders?!!!!" These are agents of the government. Therefore, what they should or should not be able to do derives from the only document giving them any authority whatsoever. Where in that document are they given the authority to shoot someone for disregarding the orders of military personnel? Perhaps I missed it. Has Congress suspended Habeas Corpus?

 

[Rockstar]

With due respect to the moderator, martial law has NOT been declared, or, if it has, it's been within the last few hours.

 

[RealGun]

If the NG really was authorized to shoot people under these circumstances, the warning was perfect. He gave the bottom line that makes it clear that there will not be a 10 minute debate in an attempt to persuade the NG to allow passage.