Joshua Hutchison
Member
you know what would be SO cool? a tommy gun in .45 SUPER.....
Tommy Guns are Heavy!
- Thread starter Kamicosmos
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Marko Kloos
Moderator Emeritus
My former boss is hugely into Thompsons. He has some very nice examples.
The Tommy Gun is very heavy, and not very ergonomic...but they are just so cool.
The Tommy Gun is very heavy, and not very ergonomic...but they are just so cool.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
Blues Bear, have you seen one of the Kahr SBR Tommys? FUGULY.
They are not even close to what a genuine Thompson M1 looks like.
And no, the new semis most certainly will NOT work with all of the surplus mags out there without modification to the magazine. The mag release pin hole must be enlarged to fit the larger pin on the semis.
Just because you saw a cool picture on a web site of a SBR Thompson doesn't mean you know anything about the weapons. Don't post what you don't know.
They are not even close to what a genuine Thompson M1 looks like.
And no, the new semis most certainly will NOT work with all of the surplus mags out there without modification to the magazine. The mag release pin hole must be enlarged to fit the larger pin on the semis.
Just because you saw a cool picture on a web site of a SBR Thompson doesn't mean you know anything about the weapons. Don't post what you don't know.
The Thompsons are great collector guns. I have run many rounds through an M1A1 over the last few years. They are plenty contollable and accurate if you do your part. My issue subgun for years was an MP5 and I would definitely go with the third generation gun for serious social work but the Thompson is a lot more fun for recreational use. If you want to knock down pepper poppers or make the dirt fly, the .45 definitely puts on a better show. If you do a little search you can find websites for Thompsons and Kahr collectors that have all sorts of information regarding reliability, etc.
Zach S
Member
I just file (well, dremel) the hole for the mag catch on mine to use surplus mags. Once the mag locks in, you still need to remove material so the bolt cycles easily. It can be tricky, but I've yet to cut too much.
Thompsons are heavy, but if you swing one around long enough everything else seems light. My thompson used to be my primary HD gun.
I dont know if mine was made before Kahr aquired AO or not. I got a deal on it though, a grand even, with two sticks and a drum, when drums were selling for $500.
While the drum looks cool, its a PITA on semis. AO had the ad for the drums on their website on 9/13 or 9/14. I've seen them listed for around $200 at various websites though.
IMO, they need to make a 1927 with the removable 1928 stock.
Thompsons are heavy, but if you swing one around long enough everything else seems light. My thompson used to be my primary HD gun.
I dont know if mine was made before Kahr aquired AO or not. I got a deal on it though, a grand even, with two sticks and a drum, when drums were selling for $500.
While the drum looks cool, its a PITA on semis. AO had the ad for the drums on their website on 9/13 or 9/14. I've seen them listed for around $200 at various websites though.
IMO, they need to make a 1927 with the removable 1928 stock.
I'd like to see one chambered in "dirt cheap compared to .45" 9mm. I'd shoot mine at least twice as much. Its a good reason to start reloading, but I dont have anywhere to set up a press (the only reason I dont do it now).
brian roberts
Member
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2004
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- 153
heavy......
ever pick up a BAR?(no, not the hunting rifle) well, pick that up, then strap on the fully-loaded "gunner's belt"= 12 mags,+1 in the gun, then the gun, + all your "other $h*t"!! those guys in WWII must have been "badder" than tom hanks!!
ever pick up a BAR?(no, not the hunting rifle) well, pick that up, then strap on the fully-loaded "gunner's belt"= 12 mags,+1 in the gun, then the gun, + all your "other $h*t"!! those guys in WWII must have been "badder" than tom hanks!!
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
Yes, the BAR is a monster. I have the A2 and A3 models, it's a heavy beast.
On top of that, traditionally the shortest guy in the outfit carried the BAR since he made a smaller target. Those guys were amazing.
On top of that, traditionally the shortest guy in the outfit carried the BAR since he made a smaller target. Those guys were amazing.
LiquidTension
Member
Does anybody make caliber conversions for these? It would be cool to have one in 9mm (cheap) or better yet, 10mm (just cool). Not that I have anything against .45 mind you.
45wheelgun
Member
As the owner of a full auto 1928a I can say it is heavy. As someone already pointed out, when I stand in the rain, I get wet. At 600RPM, you can do a drum dump in 5 seconds, that makes me wet as well.
Kahr drums? Early reports are spotty at best. Some pretty negative response. You can send them to the "Drum Doctor" and have them worked over, but at that point it is a pretty expensive date. Glad I got my WWII surplus when it was cheap.
Current Kahr manufactured Thompson's? Without a trip to Colorado, you are going to be lucky if they fire at all.
Kahr drums? Early reports are spotty at best. Some pretty negative response. You can send them to the "Drum Doctor" and have them worked over, but at that point it is a pretty expensive date. Glad I got my WWII surplus when it was cheap.
Current Kahr manufactured Thompson's? Without a trip to Colorado, you are going to be lucky if they fire at all.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
Yep, but after the trip to Colorado, you can't tell the Kahr from the real deal, down to the finish, the "melting" of the metal edges, as well as the proper safety and selector switches. VERY nice overhaul by Paul. Great for the collector looking for "authentic" looking piece. My Form 1 should be back this month and my semi will be in the box to him.
My semi is brand new and it will shoot fine actually, and it's decently accurate. I've had no malfunctions in the 100 or so rounds I put through it, but it's going to Paul anyway for a proper SBR and appearance job.
The SBR offered by Kahr is a waste of money. It's not anywhere close to looking like a real M1 or 1928, just a Kahr with a short barrel.
My semi is brand new and it will shoot fine actually, and it's decently accurate. I've had no malfunctions in the 100 or so rounds I put through it, but it's going to Paul anyway for a proper SBR and appearance job.
The SBR offered by Kahr is a waste of money. It's not anywhere close to looking like a real M1 or 1928, just a Kahr with a short barrel.
45wheelgun
Member
TexasSIGman,
Not trying to knock your rifle at all. You having one that will fire a 30 round stick without malfunctioning is a testament to your clean living and good Karma. One reads many sad stories of products from Kahr today.
My '28 is a West Hurley, the bastard child of the full auto group. Before I bought a WWII parts kit, it wouldn't run in full auto. Replaced the guts, and it runs like a champ.
You will love and cherish your Thompson when it returns from PK.
Not trying to knock your rifle at all. You having one that will fire a 30 round stick without malfunctioning is a testament to your clean living and good Karma. One reads many sad stories of products from Kahr today.
My '28 is a West Hurley, the bastard child of the full auto group. Before I bought a WWII parts kit, it wouldn't run in full auto. Replaced the guts, and it runs like a champ.
You will love and cherish your Thompson when it returns from PK.
I think I sold that one
Kamicosmos,
I think that might have been the Thompson I sold KC Cabelas last weekend. They had one other one in a violin case when I brought mine in to sell it. Mine was a West Hurley manf and in great condition, I just needed the cash. Just curious, how much were they asking for it? Mine had a 10rd drum and stick with it as well.
Kamicosmos,
I think that might have been the Thompson I sold KC Cabelas last weekend. They had one other one in a violin case when I brought mine in to sell it. Mine was a West Hurley manf and in great condition, I just needed the cash. Just curious, how much were they asking for it? Mine had a 10rd drum and stick with it as well.
BluesBear
member
True I gladly admit that I have never even seen a Kahr produced Thompson. I have received mixed reports as to their quality. And while I don't know first hand, information from reputable sources cause me to doubt they will stand up to the volume of use the old Thompsons endured.
So I will post what I do know.
From 1978 until 1999 I owned a real honest to gosh Title II 1927 Thompson Carbine manufactured in Hartford Conn. I sold it before my relocation to Washington state in 1999 because I had been incorrectly informed that I couldn't own it here. :banghead: The fact that I sold it for FIFTEEN times what I paid for it was, at the time, a small comfort.
From 1982-1986 I owned a Colt produced 1921/8 overstamp.
It tripled in price during that time.I have also personally owned three 1927A1 carbines and a 1927A5 pistol. All produced prior to 1990.
I had no trouble whatsoever using GI surplus 20 and 30 round stick mags in any of them. Both of my 18 round riot shot mags worked flawlessly too. Affixing those blasted L drums was a trick though. You really do need three hands. And getting a C-drum to work in any of them was an adventure.
But the most interesting 1927A1 Auto-Ordinance I ever fired was one chambered in 10mm. Now THERE is a handful of power! They're almost impossible to sell but they sure are fun!
I have never personally owned one of the M1 or M1A1 Thompson Carbines.
If it didn't use a drum, have an adjustable sight and sport a Cutts, I didn't want it.
My Rat-a-tat-a-tat-tat phase withered away several years ago. Sure the old "Chicago Piano" is still a lot of fun to shoot, but I just don't feel the need to own several anymore. I am now more interested in a single THUMP deivered with precision at a much longer range.
Oh yeah...
Did I mention that as a dealer I probably sold 50 or so semi-auto Auto-Ordinance Thompsons between 1978 and 1995?
TexaSIGGman,
Just because you saw a post from me on the internet, that you happen to disagree with, do NOT imagine that you know anything about me, my knowledge or my experience.
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TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
Well, you posted that buying an SBR from Kahr was a good way to have a collectible type firearm.
Owning a Thompson in the past (I still have my M1 in the safe) and having never seen the Kahr to compare it to, but still recommending it, makes no sense. It has nothing to do with their reliability, they don't even look like a Tommy gun at all.
You said:
Wrong: The mag release pin on the current manufacture guns is larger, and needs to be replaced with a small pin, or ruin a bunch of magazines by taking a Dremel tool to them.
When I recommended sending a semi off for "authentic modifications"
you said:
Be offended if you want, but I have seen the Kahr and a real M1 side by side. They have nothing in common except being called Thompsons.
It's about a $600-700 trip to Colorado to make the current Kahrs look like a real M1. It is possible, but you recommended buying the SBR models from Kahr, and that's nothing but a bad idea and waste of money.
So I don't doubt your knowledge of real Thompsons, but you have not seen a Kahr in person, you said that yourself, and the original poster was asking about that rifle, not a $$$$ authentic collector piece.
Owning a Thompson in the past (I still have my M1 in the safe) and having never seen the Kahr to compare it to, but still recommending it, makes no sense. It has nothing to do with their reliability, they don't even look like a Tommy gun at all.
You said:
Wrong: The mag release pin on the current manufacture guns is larger, and needs to be replaced with a small pin, or ruin a bunch of magazines by taking a Dremel tool to them.
When I recommended sending a semi off for "authentic modifications"
you said:
Be offended if you want, but I have seen the Kahr and a real M1 side by side. They have nothing in common except being called Thompsons.
It's about a $600-700 trip to Colorado to make the current Kahrs look like a real M1. It is possible, but you recommended buying the SBR models from Kahr, and that's nothing but a bad idea and waste of money.
So I don't doubt your knowledge of real Thompsons, but you have not seen a Kahr in person, you said that yourself, and the original poster was asking about that rifle, not a $$$$ authentic collector piece.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
A buddy of mine bought a full-auto Thompson in 1982; around $750 plus tax. He let me run about four or five sticks of ammo through it.
Holding the butt between my bicep and ribs, it was really easy to put two, three or four rounds through the center of an IPSC target at ten and fifteen yards.
Aiming at the center of a three-foot plate at 100 yards, offhand and with no particularly very-tight hold, the first shot would hit the bottom; the second, the middle, and the third shot would just clip the top of the plate. "Vertical stitching"
Fun critters. Wish I'd bought one before Congress messed up the world of full-auto...
Art
Holding the butt between my bicep and ribs, it was really easy to put two, three or four rounds through the center of an IPSC target at ten and fifteen yards.
Aiming at the center of a three-foot plate at 100 yards, offhand and with no particularly very-tight hold, the first shot would hit the bottom; the second, the middle, and the third shot would just clip the top of the plate. "Vertical stitching"
Fun critters. Wish I'd bought one before Congress messed up the world of full-auto...
Art
For what it's worth, I have a British book on their WW II Army Commandos.
It notes that they retained their Thompsons after UK troops in general had to accept the Sten.
I've read a few references by British officers who bemoaned giving up the Tommy gun for the cheaper Sten, too. I guess the weight was worth it to have the better made gun, and no doubt, some preferred the .45 round.
The Commandos usually issued the Colt. 45 auto, so their keeping the Tommy gun allowed the same ammo for pistol and SMG. (They began buying .45's from Colt in 1940, on their formation, by Churchill's order. It may not be cooincidence that Churchill himself preferred the Colt .45 auto, having taken his to France in WW I after being deposed as First Sea Lord. Maj. Fairbairn, who conducted training of special troops and SOE agents, also preferred the .45 auto.)
Lone Star
It notes that they retained their Thompsons after UK troops in general had to accept the Sten.
I've read a few references by British officers who bemoaned giving up the Tommy gun for the cheaper Sten, too. I guess the weight was worth it to have the better made gun, and no doubt, some preferred the .45 round.
The Commandos usually issued the Colt. 45 auto, so their keeping the Tommy gun allowed the same ammo for pistol and SMG. (They began buying .45's from Colt in 1940, on their formation, by Churchill's order. It may not be cooincidence that Churchill himself preferred the Colt .45 auto, having taken his to France in WW I after being deposed as First Sea Lord. Maj. Fairbairn, who conducted training of special troops and SOE agents, also preferred the .45 auto.)
Lone Star
Mk. VII-
Thanks for the photo!
Yes, I'm sure that at a political level, you're right. But, at a user level, the troops seem to have preferred the Thompson to the Sten. I'm sure it wasn't universal, though. The lighter Sten and the lighter 9mm ammo would surely have had their adherents. And I know that some didn't like 50-round drum magazines on the Tommy. Too heavy, and the cartridges rattled a little. Some thought a nearby enemy might hear it.
You've seen that well known known photo of Churchill, cigar in mouth, grinning while holding a Thompson? I like it! Can you see Tony Blair doing anything of the kind?!
Lone Star
Thanks for the photo!
Yes, I'm sure that at a political level, you're right. But, at a user level, the troops seem to have preferred the Thompson to the Sten. I'm sure it wasn't universal, though. The lighter Sten and the lighter 9mm ammo would surely have had their adherents. And I know that some didn't like 50-round drum magazines on the Tommy. Too heavy, and the cartridges rattled a little. Some thought a nearby enemy might hear it.
You've seen that well known known photo of Churchill, cigar in mouth, grinning while holding a Thompson? I like it! Can you see Tony Blair doing anything of the kind?!
Lone Star
Kamicosmos
Member
umc180gr
umc180gr:
I think it was around $900...?
I didn't look at the tag too close because I have recently recieved my income tax return, and I was afraid I'd walk out with it.
I will most likely be out at Cabela's again in a few days....it's pretty much an every other week trip for me. I'll take another look at the tag (if it's still there) and PM you the price.
umc180gr:
I think it was around $900...?
I didn't look at the tag too close because I have recently recieved my income tax return, and I was afraid I'd walk out with it.
I will most likely be out at Cabela's again in a few days....it's pretty much an every other week trip for me. I'll take another look at the tag (if it's still there) and PM you the price.
Joshua Hutchison
Member
havent they already done that? 
but it failed on the market and its rare?
but it failed on the market and its rare?rock jock
Member
The couple I have seen at matches (reproductions from Auto-Ordnance/Kahr) were not very reliable and were extraorinarily difficult to clear a jam from.
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