Tooler (sp?) Drills

[HiWayMan]

Does anyone use Tooler Drills to reconfirm how far an attacker can travel before you can clear leather and get a shot off? I use it regularly with my training partner to guage our improvments in both speed and streeful accuracy.

For those that know the Tooler by a different name it is the drill where the shooter and a runner stand back to back and at a signal the runner runs and the shooter draws and fires at a target 21' away. At the first shot the runner drops an object and stops on the second shot. This is usually followed by the shooter turning around and sh**ing their pants at how much distance was covered between drawing and shooting and the first and second shots. Easily the most sobering drill a defensive shooter can do IMO.

 

[sturmruger]

I am glad you got to the part about standing back to back. I could just see your buddy running at you from down range. Stupider things have happened remember that guy that got shot in the hotel while him and his buddy were practicing drawing at eachother. I think they were going to school at Thunder Ranch.


I will have to try this sometime It sounds interesting.


NOTE TO SELF BACK TO BACK

 

[Smoke]

I think you are a little off. Tueller drills usually involve an attacker, and a victim. The attacker usually has a "rubber" knife, the victim has a fake gun.

Whenever the attacker feels like it he tries to cover the 21ft gap while the victim attempts to draw and fire. The victim receives no warning as to when the drill starts, this allows for reaction time.

I've never seen anyone that can get on target that fast.

The issue I have with this drill, is that the victim is at least aware an attack is iminent. Attackers rarely say "Get ready, I'm at 21ft and fixing to come get you."

Smoke

 

[Justin]

I've seen drills like this done both ways, but have never heard an official name put to it.

 

[mpthole]

AFAIK the incident happened at Gunsite and not Thunder Ranch. The bottom line is that it was the idiotic handling of the firearms and not the schools fault for the death that occurred. Enough said on that.

FWIW, there was a column in one of the gun rags a while back titled something like Rethinking the 21-Foot Rule. It was a very good article. To demonstrate it they used "slider" type targets that came towards you at a pretty fast pace. There would be no warning or signal given as to when the target would start its "attack". The shooter could only draw and fire if the target was advancing.

I think Smoke had the name correct: Tueller drill.

 

[Correia]

It is Tueller, as in Sgt. Dennis Tueller of the SLCPD, now retired and teaching feds somewhere. Neat guy. Got to have lunch with him one day. He came up with this to demonstrate that that it was fine to shoot knife or club weilding attackers even if they weren't on top of you, because they still had the ability to inflict immediate grevious bodily harm.

Remember, the 21 feet was from a prepared and moderately skilled individual. As your skill decreases, and your surprise increases, increase the range. Doing this drill in a basic CCW class will show that with a beginner drawing from concealment, and a fast attacker, almost twice that distance can be covered. And don't forget just because you hit them doesn't mean they are going to stop coming.

 

[Correia]

As a side note, I was taking part in a training class once. We were doing some roleplaying. The guy playing the bad guy was a crafty old fellow. The person playing the good guy was young and athletic. The good guy had a bluegun and the BG had a rubber knife. We did this with the gun already drawn. (it was a home defense scenario). They were about 21 feet apart across a classroom.

This was not planned. Instead of immediatly charging, the crafty BG hid the knife behind his back. The GG challenged him. "What are you doing in my house? Stop right there."

The BG WALKED towards him. "I'm from the gas company. Its an emergency. There is a leak. You need to evacuate."

The GG was momentarily confused. The BG kept walking. He acted friendly. "Stop right there! Show me your hands."

Then the old guy moved. FAST. GG reacted. He would have shot the BG, but momentum would have carried the BG the rest of the way, and he would have surely gotten stabbed. You know what they say about old age and treachery. The gas company thing came out of nowhere.

It was very eye opening from a tactial point of view. If you are facing somebody with a contact weapon, the 21 feet is just a basic rule. Try to extend your time to contact. Try to get something between you. Furniture. A car. Door ways. Move off of the center line. Be prepared to block while you shoot.

 

[Dave T]

Just as a point of clarification, the guy who got killed attending Gunsite was not practicing the Tueller drill. Two morons were trying to out draw each other with supposedly empty guns in their motel room after class. One of them couldn't master unloading, hence the reason no one with a brain should try anything this dumb. It had nothing to do with the Tueller drill.

"E" ticket Gunsite graduate, 1977.

 

[sturmruger]

I didn't say they were practicing the Tueler drill just that they were drawing. I also didn't lay any blame on Gunsite. I clearly stated they were in their "hotel" I was simply indicating that allot of guns guys do stupid things.