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Top Five Submachine Guns

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Timthinker, Jan 3, 2008.

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  1. Timthinker

    Timthinker Member

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    As a history buff, I am interested in the weapons that have shaped the fate of nations. One weapon that I have not seen discussed very often is the submachine gun, a child of the twentieth century technology. So, what are the top five submachine guns that you, our contributors, believed were most significant in warfare and why did you make those selections? Please remember to support the reasons behind your choices.


    Timthinker
     
  2. 30 cal slob

    30 cal slob Member

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    mac

    uzi

    mp-5

    seem to be a lot of transferables floating around in the u.s.

    for historical kewlness...

    schmeisser

    grease gun

    sten

    sterling

    my favorite open bolt shooters: walther MP-K/L and Uzi.
     
  3. General Geoff

    General Geoff Member

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    Trick question. Everyone knows submachine guns are too bulky to be side arms, and too weak to replace real rifles. :D
     
  4. mpmarty

    mpmarty Member

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    +1 on the scant impact the sub machine gun has had on global warfare. At best it is an urban legend favored by novelists and with limited appeal as an entry weapon. Good pistols and ARs are more practical as both concealable and powerful respectively. MACs are junk, had one in 45acp (MAC-10) the Thompson or HK MP-5 are probably closest to something practical but only when the MP-5 is chambered for the 10MM which in selective fire mode gives it hundred yard usefulness.
     
  5. tegemu

    tegemu Member

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    Thompson, Schmeiser, Sten, The Russian WWII gun (Forget the name), the MP-5. I don't understand reply #2, the original poster didn't mention side arms and rifles.
     
  6. General Geoff

    General Geoff Member

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    I said "trick question," because the OP assumes that any submachine guns were actually significant in warfare on a large scale.

    Compare the actual usage of any submachine gun to that of full length rifles and rifle-caliber carbines in war, and you will see that it is, in fact, a trick question.
     
  7. Cannonball888

    Cannonball888 Member

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    PPsh.
    Pronounced pay-pay-sha according to my wife
    Rarely did they jam, german soldats often prefered them to their own MP40s.
     
  8. Timthinker

    Timthinker Member

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    To avoid dissention in the ranks, let me rephrase the question. What are your choices for the top five submachine guns that have been used in military conflicts? Also, why did you make those particular choices? I like to think my top five can be justified, but time will tell. Before I list my five, I would like to read a few more contributions.


    Timthinker
     
  9. General Geoff

    General Geoff Member

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    Thompson, H&K MP5, Uzi, Grease Gun. I can't really think of a fifth.
     
  10. Remmi

    Remmi Member

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    Clearly someone needs to read up on the FN P-90; and it's signature SS190 cartridge, then re-evaluate their position on 'Bulky' or 'Weak' SMGs.
     
  11. General Geoff

    General Geoff Member

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    I know a lot about the P90 and Five-seveN; while the external ballistics are impressive on the round (for what it is), one could use an FN F2000 and have a more powerful cartridge in the same size weapon (approximately). In short, the P90 is the answer to a question no one asked.

    The Five-seveN's sweet, though. You'll get no arguments against that pistol from me.
     
  12. Timthinker

    Timthinker Member

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    No trick question is intended here. After all, this is not graduate school.:D Actually, one of the submachine guns on my list did make a contribution for one particular nation, but I do not want to "tip" my hand any further at this point. I am just curious about the top five submachine guns our readers consider as significant weapons within the submachine gun category. No one is forced to contribute any answers. As I stated earlier, this is not graduate school.


    Timthinker
     
  13. Remmi

    Remmi Member

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    Hardly the same approximate size.

    19 inches compared to 27 inches in length is a significant difference in exchange for loss of magazine size, as well as the addition of indeed, true 'bulk' from the standard 5.56 NATO magazine and the height that feed mechanism. The F2000 and the P90 both excel at what they were designed to do; but arguably the P90 is smaller, lighter, carries a larger standard magazine, and fits easily into most overhead storage compartments.

    Now, if we were proposing a replacement for the aging M-16A4, then yes. The F2000 would get my whole-hearted vote. But for extreme-CQB, there isn't a much better high-capacity automatic weapon then the P90.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2008
  14. Ash

    Ash Member

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    Actually, it is not at all a trick question. The Suomi played a very significant role in the Winter War.

    Ash
     
  15. General Geoff

    General Geoff Member

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    I want to agree with you, but, the P90 is just so freaking ugly!

    Concept is great, but as I said before, it's the answer to a question no one asked. FWIW, I've never had a maneuverability problem in tight quarters with a full 22" barrelled M1A, so I don't see what all the hype about ultra-short bullpup carbines/SMGs is anyway...
     
  16. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    The Russian PPsh, the British Sten & Sterling, and German MP-40 are probably the only four that had any major influence on the outcome of a battle in WWII.

    There were certainly several others used to one extent or another, but none of them really had any affect on the outcome like those did.

    In later wars, the Israelis and the UZI can't be left out.

    That is really about it of any major importance I can think of!

    [​IMG]
    rcmodel
     
  17. rmkey

    rmkey Member

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    best? smg

    The thompson is my personal favoite because it is 45 cal and because the great Vic Marrow used it!!!
    Actually I wonder if the ppsh41 Russian is not the most significant. Because it had a high rate of fire with controllability due to the smalll 30 cal bullet and high penetration because of the 30 cal and hight velocity. It did kill a lot of Krauts.
     
  18. Kind of Blued

    Kind of Blued Member

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    1) Thompson
    2) MP40
    3) H&K MP5
    4) PPsh
    5) Uzi

    I'm really not educated on the military success or influence of these weapons. While they may not have killed that many people in comparison to heavy machine guns or rifles, I'm sure they KEPT alot of enemies from killing the submachine gunner's comrades et al via covering fire.

    I seem to remember the PPsh being one hell of a brass spitter.

    I guess the MP5 hasn't really been employed to much in warfare, but certainly has made a name for itself in more tactical SWAT team type applications. Possibly just too expensive and not abundant enough for thugs to get a hold of, or maybe I've just watched too many shoot 'em ups.
     
  19. dscottw88

    dscottw88 Member

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    I agree that the P90 excells at what it was designed to do, and the 5.7 rounds are very respectable. Ugly? Sure, but so is the glock, and that doesn't stop me from liking them.
     
  20. AtticusThraxx

    AtticusThraxx Member

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    I'll have to take everyone's word on this one. I live in California and I don't think I'm allowed to even have pictures of submachine guns.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2008
  21. Ash

    Ash Member

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    I would say the most significant subgun was the Suomi followed by the Soviet PPSh and STEN. I think the subgun had the most impact in the Eastern Theatres of the European element of WWII.

    Ash
     
  22. Evil Monkey

    Evil Monkey member

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    The hell with SMG's. Assault rifles have gotten so short now with their bullpup configurations and even shorter barrels on top of that, the SMG just lacks versatility in comparison.

    And while I'm at it, let me attack 308 and battle rifles! :D
    No, I'm only joking. lol
     
  23. Roswell 1847

    Roswell 1847 member

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    The Thompson proved itself pretty throughly in WW2.
    One old German soldier said on TV interview that in battle whenever he heard a burst from a Thompson he knew another of his men was dead.

    The MP40 also proven in Combat
    The PPSH 41 armed entire battalions of Tank riders.
    The UZI proved itself in many battles including the assault on an ancient fortress where Israeli Commandos outshot the defenders on the parapets because they could hold onto the scaling ropes and fire accurate bursts with the other hand.

    The Soumi probably killed more men in combat than any other submachinegun.
    Single Soumi gunners are credited with pinning down and/or wiping out entire Soviet plattoons killing as many as 80 men in a matter of minutes.

    Interestingly the Soumi Gunners invented the ghetto sideways style of shooting. As the gun began to foul and misfeed after hours of continuous use they found that by holding it sideways it continued to function for a few more magazines full.
    This is partly why horizontal feed was used for so many SMG designs. The rounds in the Mag don't have to fight gravity, and the empties aren't as likely to get stuck on the way out.
     
  24. jaholder1971

    jaholder1971 Member

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    MP5

    Thompson

    Uzi

    M3

    MP40
     
  25. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    WWII and the early Cold War were the golden era of SMG's. I'd rank these as the top 5--

    Suomi KP-31
    PPS 43
    Thompson SMG
    MP-40
    UZI

    The Suomi is a remarkable weapon. It shoots at or near MOA, fires a potent cartridge, and is easy to maintain and repair. The Finns spanked the Soviets hard with this weapon. It's no accident that the legendary PPSh-41 looks so much like the Suomi.

    I give the Soviets props for developing the lighter, handier PPS 43 which earned its place in history during the rough end of WWII

    The Thompson is bulky and somewhat antiquated, but you gotta give it credit. It did excellent service during urban and jungle fighting for many many decades beyond what should have been its service life. Plus its legendary status as both a gangster weapon and weapon of war give it a place of honor.

    The MP-40 is bigger than it looks in movies, for some reason. In the flesh it's heavy too. But it is a really cool and interesting, if imperfect, blowback design. And it's become iconic of the German military during WWII

    The UZI is reliable, well made and IIRC ended up as the single most widely used SMG design of all. What's not to like?

    [​IMG]
     
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