Topping off a Garand

[Thomasss]

I found an obscure reading of a guy who found a simple way to top off
an En-block in the action of a Garand. It was often noted only the Germans
could do it to their semi auto rifle.
I'm surprised someone didn't figure that out during WW II.

Another point on the Garand was there were Japanese who did wait to hear
the ping of a Garand and then try to attack the Marines. It's not an urban legend
as many people have thought. On Iwo Jima in jungle fire-fights, some shooting occurred as close as 10 feet between battle lines. The Marines often set up tag teams and allowed one person to shoot while another held back until the familiar "ping" was heard. As the opposition
started to charge, the second Marine partner would start shooting while the first one
was reloading.

 

[JCooperfan1911]

Imo Jiva?

 

[cslinger]

I am not saying it COULD NEVER HAVE HAPPENED, but I have been on a firing line without ears and there is no way I would be able to pick out a PING in that line and pinpoint its location. I just cannot imagine when fighting a group of soldiers all armed with Garands how you could pick out an individual PING in the pandemonium of battle. 1 on 1 maybe. Actual combat with squad or larger sized elements no way.

 

[Orcon]

Okay.

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

Did you see that in a movie?

 

[Risky buisness]

Ok... as a long time Garand shooter, I'll bite.......what's the obscure and simple way to ' top off " a Garand ? Im not even going to go there on Garand ' ping '.

 

[trackskippy]

Hit the clip release and put a new clip in.

 

[cfullgraf]

I'm surprised someone didn't figure that out during WW II.

The problem with the Garand, there is no way to lock the bolt back without ejecting the enbloc clip. But, then, it was designed that way. It would be tough to top off the magazine while holding the bolt open.

You can "top off" the Garand by releasing the clip while holding the bolt open, there is a button on the side of the rifle for that. Then, just insert a full clip. If one has time, you can police up the unfired cartridges and save them when you have time to refill another clip.

There have been some famous experts that have said soldiers carried empty clips around and flung them at the ground ijn the middle of a firefight to get the ping. The hope was to trick the opposition to expose themselves.

As cslinger said, I've been on the firing line during a Service rifle match where the shooter next to me was shooting a Garand and I never heard the "ping".

 

[bannockburn]

A far as hearing things in combat my Dad did say (he fought in France and Germany during WWII), probably the one reason few of our guys would pick up an MP40 or an MG42 was that they produced a very distinctive sound when fired and this could bring friendly fire on to your position!

Other than that no mention of the Germans waiting for hearing an M1 clip "ping" before they attacked.

 

[Dave DeLaurant]

You might find some of the Bloke's M1 Garand videos interesting:

 

[tark]

It's not an urban legend

It IS an urban legend.

 

[lysanderxiii]

Ok... as a long time Garand shooter, I'll bite.......what's the obscure and simple way to ' top off " a Garand ? Im not even going to go there on Garand ' ping '.

Keep pulling the trigger until you hear a "PING!" Then insert a fresh clip. It's easier than hitting the clip release.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

A far as hearing things in combat my Dad did say (he fought in France and Germany during WWII), probably the one reason few of our guys would pick up an MP40 or an MG42 was that they produced a very distinctive sound when fired and this could bring friendly fire on to your position!

Other than that no mention of the Germans waiting for hearing an M1 clip "ping" before they attacked.

Same reason it was dangerous to have GIs trying to use AKs in 'Nam. The distinctive sound of a Kalashnikov on auto was sure to draw friendly fire.

 

[jmorris]

I just cannot imagine when fighting a group of soldiers all armed with Garands how you could pick out an individual PING in the pandemonium of battle.

I think there were about 70,000 US Marine’s that took part in the little over a month battle.

I can’t imagine being one of the 18,000 Japanese soldier’s, that could hear one “ping” and thinking “I gotta jump over that pile of dirt all those bullets are coming from and see what one guy over there is out of ammunition. Hopefully it will be before all the others turn me into chum…”

 

[cslinger]

A far as hearing things in combat my Dad did say (he fought in France and Germany during WWII), probably the one reason few of our guys would pick up an MP40 or an MG42 was that they produced a very distinctive sound when fired and this could bring friendly fire on to your position!

Other than that no mention of the Germans waiting for hearing an M1 clip "ping" before they attacked.

One can absolutely pick out certain guns by their report/ROFs and MG39s/42’s have a VERY distinctive sound, almost like loudly ripping a burlap sack to me. (Not a perfect analogy but sort of similar to my ear). AK’s in x39 are fairly distinct to me as well.

 

[Risky buisness]

Hit the clip release and put a new clip in.

Uhhhh yea....... the OP alludes to a ' new method '.
Thats what i want to hear ....

 

[Risky buisness]

Keep pulling the trigger until you hear a "PING!" Then insert a fresh clip. It's easier than hitting the clip release.

Welllll, thats how I do it, but, theirs suppost to be a
'simple ' method to top off a Garand and i would like to hear about it..... i may have been screwing up all along , punching the clip release, shooting the gun dry, just to put in 8 fresh rounds.

 

[Nom de Forum]

I..... On Iwo Jima in jungle fire-fights,

Iwo Jima did not and does not have a jungle in which to have a "jungle fire-fight".

 

[Thomasss]

To answer a few questions. 1) Topping off a Garand can be done by opening the bolt and keeping it open
by holding Op rod with the back of the right hand and inserting ammo into the en-block with the left. The En-block will not release as long as one doesn't touch the mag release on the left side of the chamber. It was common for the Marines to eject partial En-blocks of ammo and load a full one prior to a massive engagement.
This really upset the COs because they didn't always have a lot of ammo to waste.
2) Although the two videos from Dave Laurant have some validity, they are also mis-informed. Massad Ayoob is his book Deadly Force describes a "rule of thumb" called "Opportunity" in which a person with a large knife can travel up to 21 feet in 1.5 seconds and do some serious damage to a defender. The concept of "Opportunity" is still recognized in our US court system today. Now the video shows reloading a Garand in 3.9 seconds.
3) The tag team situation I described was taken from a documentary I saw on cable that interviewed some grunts that fought on Iwo Jima. It was common for the Japanese to lure Americans by sniper fire in order to set up a Banzai attack usually at dusk or at night. Japanese soldiers were very short on ammo and would run single file down a path toward the US soldiers thinking if the first man fell, the second on would pick up his weapon and continue the attack. The Garand, at short distances, was powerful enough, at time, to do a thru and thru and hit several enemy soldiers with a single bullet.
4) According to what I have read and seen there were plenty of jungle/swamp areas on Iwo Jima.
Although the American military declared that Iwo Jima had been captured the next day, American forces spent weeks on end trudging through the island’s jungles, finding and killing or capturing Japanese “holdouts” who refused to surrender and opted to continue fighting. Source: The History Channel titled: Command Decisions: Battle of Iwo Jima

 

[DukeConnor]

A Garand can be topped off. I read about it somewhere and tried it and was successful. Can't remember how. Not sure why one would want to.

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

If they were 10 feet away I would hope that they had the bayonet attached. My collection of WWII bayonets have convinced me I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of any of them.

 

[CapnMac]

I have to wonder if OP has managed to get ahold of one of the stories about ways of loading a "short" en bloc clip, where conservation of ammo was a critical thing.
This involves some careful manipulation of the en bloc to get it in until the follower can press the "loose" rounds bac into proper tension in the clip.

Trying to "top off" a Garand that is not empty (say, only three rounds fired) is that pulling back the bolt is pulling the loaded round (#4) out of the chamber, which will be in the way of loading more in the en bloc clip.

Fuzzy memory wants to recall old glossy-paper gun mags extolling methods or poking two rounds into a locked-in en bloc for High Power competition before the advent o the 2 and 5 rounder clips.

 

[Hangingrock]

I went thru ITR (Infantry Training Regiment) at Camp Geiger adjacent to Camp Lejeune in the Fall of 1964. Even thou we qualified with the M14 at Parris Island at Camp Geiger we were issued M1 rifles. The M1 is not left-handed friendly in my opinion. There was a left-handed procedure for loading the end-block clip, but you had to be careful. In 1968 as member of 3Rd Battalion 8Th Marines the Sailors attach to elements of the Defense Battalion were issued M1 rifles that had been converted to 7.62mm NATO ether by re-barreling or chamber inserts. The chamber inserts could be problematic by being extracted during firing cycle a rear occurrence but none the less an occurrence to be noted.

 

[MistWolf]

We hunted jackrabbits with everything under the sun, including the M1 Grand. I'd fire off a few rounds at a running jack, then hold back the charging handle with the right hand and top off the clip with loose rounds while it was in the magazine. It was easier than dealing with an ejected partial clip. Sometimes I was able to top it off to a full eight rounds this way. Usually though, I couldn't get the eighth round in. It wasn't difficult, but I'm not sure I'd try it while eating sand under fire.

 

[Sistema1927]

I can top off my Garand with ease.

It has a Holbrook Device.