Touring with a gun in Chicago...

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"Ignorance" of the law is no excuse. Hmmm.......... I suspect that was written when the Law was based on a simple and widely understood moral code of action. For example, the Ten Commandments , and the Bill of Rights.

Any idea how many "laws" are in effect in this country? Me neither, but I will bet it is in excess of one million. To argue that ignorance is no excuse is a farce, ESPECIALLY when the LAW has NO moral justification, so that a reasonably intelligent, upstanding person cannot base his actions on whether something is "wrong" or "right".

The very fabric of the law is being ripped apart because folk can see clearly that the laws are not based on an ideal of justice or morality or right and wrong, but is being used as a tool to empower certain classes at the expense of others.

The other thing I would like to point out, is that the law has increasingly been used not to punish ACTIONS, but to prohibit ITEMS. To have a proscription against murder or maiming is simple. To have a prohibition about knife length, knife type, hammers, guns, calibers, cars, ropes,chemicals, screwdrivers, ammo, ball bats, ( I think you get the point..) And all of these ignore the MAIN POINT, which is INTENT to DO HARM.

Some states, in an attempt to prohibit drug use , have outlawed drugs.
Then they outlawed "precursor chemicals"
Then they required a permit to purchase test tubes.
How far will they chase the idiocy? Make glass factories illegal? Outlaw the possession of spoons?
YIKES!
 
Tokugawa, I have a hammer and it has done harm, (but only to myself) Was there an intent to harm?? No. It was more an end user problem.

What I see is that her class instructor apparently left out some pretty critical stuff. Like........ "your permit is only valid in TN and certain states, check these sites for reciprocity".

I don't agree with Chicago's "laws" and the way Illinois treats their firearms owners. It's high time that someone took them to task and gets that crap all straightened out.
 
This story should be almost funny to anyone who's ever spent any time in Chicago. Here, the cops are arresting middle-aged women with out-of state permits, at Sears Tower. These are the same cops who hear gunfire coming from Cabrini Green, on any given Friday night, and do absolutely nothing.
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That is completely untrue and unfair cop bashing.

There have been Chicago Police Officers who have made sure that one side or the other in such disputes in Cabrini-Green and elsewhere were at the least, supplied with ammunition:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4155/is_20030124/ai_n9615174

Notoriously crooked cop sentenced today

Steve Warmbir
Listen to Joseph Miedzianowski, the man called Chicago's most crooked cop, and you hear a terrifying talent for talking.

It's a talent that helped him nab criminals, seduce informants and perpetuate his own tough-guy legend.

It's a talent that also helped turn his informants into partners in crime and inspire equal parts fear and loyalty among his cronies in the cocaine ring he ran.

And in the end, it's a talent that trapped him, as federal prosecutors wiretapped his phones to record his secret life as a drug dealer and as a close friend to gang-bangers.

Today, in federal court, Miedzianowski, 49, will learn whether he gets life behind bars, or could possibly get out an 80-year-old man if he receives the lower sentence requested by his defense attorneys.

Miedzianowski, as solid as a gravel truck with a voice to match, has long insisted on his innocence and in prison has talked about killing the federal prosecutor most responsible for putting him behind bars, Brian Netols.

Miedzianowski also has allegedly plotted to have associates get guns and missile launchers in an attempt to spring him during a court hearing, sources said.

He was convicted in April 2001 along with a cast of gang-bangers, drug dealers and his mistress for running a Chicago-to-Miami drug ring.

Prosecutors have said in court that the world of Joseph Miedzianowski was upside down, where cops were thieves, where bad guys got police help to beat criminal charges.

And it was a world underscored by brutality.

In one conversation with a gang member, Miedzianowski says: "Because I tell you, if somebody f---- me over, I would not only f--- them, I would f--- their brothers, their sisters, their aunts, their uncles. . . . If they had a parakeet, I'd f--- the parakeet."

In his upside down world, Miedzianowski arrested punks to get guns off the streets, but then secretly put weapons in the hands of his gang-banger buddies.

And what are guns without bullets? Taxpayer-paid ammunition was stolen from the Cook County Sheriff with the help of a Miedzianowski friend and passed on to gang-bangers, prosecutors argue.

Miedzianowski had three words for his friend when the time was ripe to swipe ammo.

"Steal, steal, steal," Miedzianowski said.

His criminal life infected families, including his own, which has supported him throughout the case. Miedzianowski had his photograph taken with a drug dealer's child. And Miedzianowski had his own son photographed with a gang member.

Copyright The Chicago Sun-Times, Inc.
Provided by ProQuest Information and Learning Company. All rights Reserved.
 
All she must do now (to avoid felony rap in Chi): be contrite, kneel and kiss the ring of 'Himself-the-Mayor', bo-hoo a bit, give her gun to Jesse Jackson (staged photo-op------WHY NOT?), and promise to always be a good little girl from now on.


Or maybe plead not guilty----exceptions to the constitution should at least be noted on a sign at the city gates. After all, Chicago (birthplace of the atomic pile in 1942, but why pi$$ & moan) has sign
s on major highways touting it is a NUCLEAR WEAPON FREE ZONE. They bothered with that, but no 'no CCW/ handguns' signs'?
 
Warren, of Memphis, is charged with one count each of unlawful use of a weapon, no firearm owner's identification card, and failure to register a handgun, all misdemeanors, police said.
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Oh my god! So two of her charges are, in all likelihood, not possible for to have complied with as an out-of-state resident: for a FOID, she's got to be a resident, and to register the pistol I would not be surprised if she were required to be a "member of the community in good standing" in Chicago. And the 'unlawful use of a weapon'? She didn't use it, she was transporting it! (Kinda like it being illegal to have a pack of smokes in your pocket in a NYC bar - oh wait, even that isn't illegal.)

Furthermore, that charge is likely a freakin' redundancy of the other two to try and get her to shut up (while the lack of a felony is likely an attempt to get her to accept the lessened charges).
 
On the number of laws in this country, yeah, it is wayyyyyyy to many. Its hard for me to remember ALL of the laws exactly on firearms to know EXACTLY if I am in the right or wrong. There was once a time (so I am told) that if you did something against the law, and instead of jail time community service and this and that, the officer set your mental law book strait and told you to go home. Not anymore.

IMNSHO this woman's case would be an interesting legal confrontation. She's been permitted by her home state to carry a concealed weapon in areas where it is not prohibited but the minute she crosses a bridge on the Ohio river she becomes an instant felon.
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Highlight instant will ya.

was it Thomas Jefferson? who once said "I'd rather see 10 guilty men go free than jail one innocent one"
 
I presume you meant don't go to Chicago; yes?
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I used to go there once a year because my mother is old and won't be around forever. She moved to one of the suburbs last year. I loathe Illinois too, but at least I don't have to stay in Apartheid Chicago anymore.
 
Warren, of Memphis, is charged with one count each of unlawful use of a weapon, no firearm owner's identification card, and failure to register a handgun, all misdemeanors, police said.
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Non-residents do not need a FOID. (430 ILCS 65/2) Valid TN CCW permit covers this eight ways from Tuesday...

Non-residents do not need to register handguns (Chicago 8-20-040) and CANNOT unless they have a valid IL FOID first, never mind that it wouldn't be approved.

She didn't get charged with "possession of ammunition" even though it was loaded...

UUW in a non-school, non-bar setting is a misdemeanor (IL). All city violations are $300-$500 and/or 10-90 days in jail, period.

Police recommended that Warren be charged with a felony for unlawful use of a weapon, she said.

"We would like people to recognize how serious this is. ... We take our gun laws very seriously," Bond said.
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Remember, ignorance of the law is no excuse...unless you're a prosecutor, a member of CPD, or a spokeswoman.
 
"There was never any danger to the occupants," Bond said.
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Wow. They've admitted carrying the gun was not "dangerous" in and of itself--because the person carrying had no criminal intent. Too bad they lack the intellectual ability or courage to carry that thought to its logical conclusion.

K
 
I'm orginally from Chicago

And I'm sorry to say that the city is pitiful (that's why I left). The city's conditions warrant the use and concealment of firearms when it comes to tourists.......Did you know that my beloved city even prohibits the sale, use, and ownership of Stun Guns!!!! A non-lethal self-defense tool. When I first started my Crime Prevention business I had to have the stun guns mailed to a friend in Indiana (where it is legal to have stun guns). The woman should only be fined, had no intent to maliciously use the firearm other than for her protection against the would be attackers ( undesirables) simply because of not only the 2nd Amendment, but for the right to defend herself and others.......Now I haven't read all the threads on here, but so far it has led to negativity. She should have the chance to pay the fine and get her firearm back. She should NOT lose her license to carry a weapon because the state who issued it was not the state she (the issued carrier) violated the prohibition of a concealed weapon in. Daley has his own problems to deal with, alienating tourists is certainly NOT "GOOD BUSINESS" for the city, and bad P.R. for him and his misfit staff. OH I know all too well the corruption in that city, one day Daley will fall, just you wait and see..........Another example on the Windy City Policy: Did you know that though it is illegal to fight dogs? (though it's wrong & inhumane)....... It is perfectly legal to fight to the death in Indiana (which is also wrong & inhumane)........funny isn't?....And since when did states override the U.S. Constitution? There's a shirt on sale at infowars.com that has 3 pictures of the past dictators. I think the title is " MURDERERS ROW".........DICTATORS AGREE............GUN CONTROL WORKS.............The pictures are of Stalin, Hitler, & I think the North Korean "President"..........Maybe we should have our politicians that oppose citizens of owning and carrying firearms on that list also...

Good night & God Bless to all.


P.S. Anyone from El Paso, TX: I'll be at the Provost Gun Show this weekend.
 
Couldn't she have been charged with Aggravated UUW, which is a felony?
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Of course it's a stretch, but you'd have to prove that the revolver was all of these: Loaded, uncased and immediately available.

Loaded: no argument

Uncased: A paper bag could be a case, a fanny pack IS a case, and depending on the outcome, a holster with flap may be a case. It wasn't found on her body, so it must have been in some sort of container...

Immediately available: Hand any male her purse, time them to find a gun and bring it to readiness (the tube of lipstick wedged in the trigger guard, the keyring snagged on the front sight, various business cards caught under the hammer, etc.) She could probably do it in like 2 seconds and another woman might take 10 seconds, but a guy? Half a day, easy, unless he dumps it, in which case maybe 10 minutes :)

IANAL, but if it is in a container/case, it cannot be "immediately available." If it is immediately available, it cannot be in a container/case. It was found by a metal detector, not visually, so it was enclosed.

If the court (with likely necessary appeals) ultimately finds that the revolver isn't "immediately available" the Chicago Unlawful to Carry ordinance and the State UUW falls apart and she walks (along with her gun). She needs a competent lawyer who is willing to fight - as opposed to a $500 fine (Chicago) + fines/jail time (IL) + confiscation of her firearm (Chicago) + misdemeanor conviction/plea + possible TN CCW revocation or denial of renewal. Being Chicago, there's a good chance of a sweet-sounding deal that ultimately will bite her down the road.
 
"There was no intent," he repeated to a police officer, then wondered aloud what he was going to do alone all day. The two had driven from Tennessee and are staying at a hotel in Michigan, Bond said.

So do TN and MI have recopricity?
 
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