NYC arrests CCWing nurse from TN

[crracer_712]

Yes, you should know the law

'A tourist from Tennessee reportedly thought she could check her loaded gun at New York City's Sept. 11 memorial.


The New York Post says 39-year-old Meredith Graves was visiting the memorial at the World Trade Center site on Dec. 22 and noticed a sign that said "No guns allowed." The Post reports that Graves asked police where she could check her loaded pistol. She was arrested on a gun-possession charge.

Graves has a legal permit to carry a weapon in Tennessee, but New York's gun laws are stricter.

The Post says Graves posted bond and is due back in court March 19. She faces 3½ years in prison if convicted.

“You’d think states would reciprocate with the Second Amendment. She has a license to carry in Tennessee,” her mother-in-law told the Post.


The newspaper says her attorney at Legal Aid did not return phone calls.'

She should have check reciprical states before the trip. Apparently she's not a nemesis (she wanted to check the gun in due to a no gun sign). I hope I find something posted about the outcome whenever it takes place.

 

[ClickClickD'oh]

Could be an interesting test case to force reciprocity through the the full faith and credit clause. Not much of a chance, but an interesting possibility.

 

[CoRoMo]

If only some big money/attorney power would get involved with her defense.

 

[Tommygunn]

Just heard this over the radio news.
Sorry but New York City, AKA "The Naked* City," is notoriously antigun. As a prior poster said she should have checked the law.










* Naked; alt meaning; "unprotected." how appropriate. Or, "Gotham," meaning "city of fools."

 

[newbuckeye]

And yet another example of gun laws only working on those trying to follow the law....(except where she carried into NY)

 

[dusty14u]

She should have checked recipriosity before she went on the trip. I hope she is able to get off of the charges. NYC is like a completely different country than the USA.

What I find ironic is that they put up a no guns sign at the World Trade Center when the whole city is pretty much a gun free zone and the citizens can't even possess blackpowder weapons in their homes. I remember a case in the last few years that they were threatening a citizen because he had a blackpowder replica and didn't have a permit, although by law it didn't require one. So why would they even post a sign if the citizenry is not allowed to carry?

 

[bikemutt]

So why would they even post a sign if the citizenry is not allowed to carry?

It is possible to obtain a carry permit in NYS, I imagine those folks are the intended audience for the sign, and of course any law-abiding criminals and terrorists.

Concealed Permit:
May Issue to Residents Only
The determination whether to grant the license is completely within the discretion of the licensing officer. However, the licensing officer must state specifically and concisely in writing the reasons for a denial. A denial can only be overturned in court if the denial is shown to be arbitrary and capricious.

Issuing Authority:
Licensing Officer of the City or County where the applicant resides, is principally employed, or where his principal place of business as a merchant or storekeeper is located.

NICS check: Yes

 

[ForumSurfer]

Oh yeah, she should have checked the rules before going anywhere. I always do. I check the rules in the states I travel to and through.

As others mentioned...yep, the sign only works for people who are "trying" to obey the rules.

I really hope she comes out of this OK. It would be sad to lose your gun rights and spend "up to 3 1/2 years" in prison over something so simple.

 

[Bobson]

I agree it was her responsibility to know the law of a state she was visiting, but 3.5 years in prison seems extremely harsh... it also means it would make her a felon, stripping her of her future right to own firearms.

Absolutely unfortunate, but ultimately preventable.

 

[Rob G]

From a stricly legal point of view she's pretty much SOL. The law is clear on that one and New York is not known for leniency when it comes to guns. She's probably looking at the end of her 2nd amendment rights.

I really hope though that she gets a decent prosecutor, judge, or jury who consider intent in their decision, even though I'm pretty sure they don't have to.

Maybe this is one the NRA could help with?

 

[AlexanderA]

This thread should be read in connection with the other thread here, "People who carry without a permit in strict states criminals?" If you carry in defiance of the local law, don't get caught. Can you guarantee that you won't get caught? Or, if you go the civil disobedience route, volunteer to be arrested and make a test case of it. Lots of luck.

 

[leadcounsel]

NYC - check your rights at the door...

 

[alsaqr]

The lady should have taken a minute to check the reciprocity map. NY does not have reciprocity with any other state.

Reciprocity map:

http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry_permit_reciprocity_maps.html

 

[ns66]

is USA pretty much the only country where different places have different laws? as if we have too much time nothing better to do than read lots of laws

 

[JRH6856]

Not only does New York State not honor other states' permits/licenses, even a New York State Permit/License to carry is not valid in New York City without a special NYC Endorsement.

 

[Derry 1946]

If she drove there with a TN permit, she needed to avoid a few states along the way (to say nothing of NY). If she flew, there are some TSA regulations involved.

 

[friscolatchi]

There was a case where a FL guy was acquitted of possession in NYC by a jury. From my recollection of the story, he traveled by car to visit his girlfriend in Queens, was stopped making an illegal turn and in the process of getting his registration from the glovebox, the officer noticed the gun. My understanding of the defense was that had he been aware of the law he would not have openly allowed the officer to see the gun. I hope that this can be used by this person and that she contacts the attorney who represented this man.

That being said, there is no better preventative than understanding the gun laws of the state (s) that you will be traveling in. I will contact the SP and the DA offices even after reading the state laws if something is not clear to me. I'm sure that she learned this in her CC class.

 

[Loosedhorse]

I remember when Plaxico Burress was arrested, and some were calling for the NRA or SAF to back him for appeals. That was ridiculous.

But here we have a classic "sympathetic defendent": a nurse/medical student with a valid out-of-state CCW: a bona fide good guy, who is facing 3 1/2 years in prison. Because she asked where to store her gun.

The gun controllers in NYC are already running scared:

New York City Councilman Peter Vallone Jr., who is chairman of the Public Safety Committee, said prosecuting people like Graves will spur gun advocates to fight harder against restrictions on weapons.

"By prosecuting this woman and seeking 3 1/2 years of jail, we are shooting our own [gun-control] efforts in the foot and giving the rest of the country ammunition,"

If they try and convict her, she can appeal on 2A and 8A grounds, claiming that it is unusual to jail for 3 1/2 years a person with no criminal intent and in possession of a valid CCW issued by a sovereign state for a first-offense simple possession charge. And she has strong reason to appeal, as conviction will ruin her career(s) in medicine.

If they decline to prosecute, then every person they prosecute in the future (and even those like Burress, that they have already convicted) can appeal as not having been treated equally under law.

I wish she hadn't "volunteered" to be the perfect test case. But she has. We are foolish if we don't realize we've been dealt quite a good hand here.

Those of you who are NRA and SAF members: make sure you let them know you have a strong interest in this case, and so should they.

 

[NavyLCDR]

New York City Councilman Peter Vallone Jr., who is chairman of the Public Safety Committee, said prosecuting people like Graves will spur gun advocates to fight harder against restrictions on weapons.

"By prosecuting this woman and seeking 3 1/2 years of jail, we are shooting our own [gun-control] efforts in the foot and giving the rest of the country ammunition,"

If his law is such a good one, then why is he afraid of enforcing it?

 

[Loosedhorse]

^The answer is obvious: they want the power to jail gun carriers they don't like, and excuse gun carriers they do like...

...or those whom it would be politically risky to prosecute. Neither justice nor rights enter into it one bit.

 

[NelsErik]

Marine faces 15 years behind bars for unknowingly violating gun law

It just happened again... tourist in NY gets busted.

I think the discussion in the comments section of that article is pretty interesting...

 

[Snowdog]

I had my leatherman taken and "secured" several times during several visits to NYC. I can't imagine the chaos if I had a pistol.

I can expect NYC to honor my NC driver's license to allow me to drive a 3 ton Escalade through the crowded streets, but heaven forbid if I were to expect NYC to honor my NC CCW.

Oh well, it's a good thing I don't visit NYC often.

 

[wannabeagunsmith]

How screwed up is this?! A lady is facing prison time just for carrying a gun for self-defense???? I mean this isn't really a reason to get locked up it dosen't seem! AND IN NEW YORK!! Some of the biggest gangs are in N.Y. and if you are gonna get robbed/raped/murdered it would likely be there! New York is such BS!

 

[Bubbles]

Is it not common knowledge that concealed carry in NYC is about as welcome as a fart in a dive helmet?

While the onus is definitely on the gun owner to know the local laws, people who have never lived in a state with strict gun control laws often don't realize just how bad things are in other states.

 

[nyrifleman]

It is possible to obtain a carry permit in NYS, I imagine those folks are the intended audience for the sign, and of course any law-abiding criminals and terrorists.

Not really. I believe there are only a few thousand people (out of 12 million people in NYC) who have carry permits that are not current or former law enforcement. Most who do are VIPs. And include several prominent anti-gunners -- it's quite infuriating.