Trade Sig 229P or S&W Model 19-3 ?

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kemper

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Hey folks,

Got an offer to trade my stainless Sig p229 in 40 caliber
for a S&W Model 19-3 nickel plated with 4" barrel
Gun is reported to be unfired or certainly shot
very little. It does not have the box with it

Does that sound like a decent or fair trade ?
I rarely shoot the Sig and have one 19-5 that I
love, but wouldn't mind having another ?
 
If the M 19-3 is in the condition you describe, its' dollar value, currently, exceeds that of your Sig. Unless you are involved in a protracted fire fight 6 rounds of .357 Magnum ammo should be more than enough to protect yourself.

So, go for it.
 
kemper,

What are you going to do with the S&W 66? Collect it? If so, it's an ok trade.

If you are going to pack it, keep the SIG.

Deaf
 
I don't believe in trading or selling. If you want the 66, by all means buy it. Don't sell the 229. Get a barrel in .357 SIG and duplicate the performance of the 66 with more than twice the ammo capacity.
 
I would keep the SIG as it's magazine holds twice as many rounds. While oxidation protection is excellent nickel-plated guns scratch easily and are pain in the ass to clean from powder residue.
 
Model 19-3

I would be making the trade to keep the revolver as part
of my collection. NOT for carrying.
Already have several Glock 9mm and a couple of 1911 pistols.
Sig still making 229 pistols, but model 19-3 revolvers with
pinned barrels and recessed cylinders have not been made
in a LONG time. That was my thought process
 
kemper

Nothing wrong with your thought process in regards to this trade. A nickel plated Model 19-3, in pristine condition is a much harder to find gun (and probably worth a bit more), than a current production SIG P-229. I would make the deal if that's what you really want.
 
I would be making the trade to keep the revolver as part
of my collection. NOT for carrying.
Already have several Glock 9mm and a couple of 1911 pistols.
Sig still making 229 pistols, but model 19-3 revolvers with
pinned barrels and recessed cylinders have not been made
in a LONG time. That was my thought process
Then what are you waiting for???? Grab it. But do inspect it very carefully before making the trade.

Deaf
 
I would keep the SIG

Unless you do not like the SIG 229, I think you are losing out on this deal. The SIG is a much better pistol, in my opinion.

If you are going to shoot this gun or only shoot .38 wadcutters or mid range .38 Special, you can expect the S&W 19 to be a fine gun. Easy to shoot with wadcutters and mid range .38 ammo.

In my case, I want to shoot my collection and the S&W 19's that I owned and shot were second rate when using .357 magnum ammo. I sold them and bought only L frame .357's after that.

In the defense category, if you change you mind and intend to use this gun, it is really not even a contest. A hot .40 S&W load, like the 155 grain and 165 grain jhp's are equal to the 125 grain .357 magnum. That is what my agency determined by replacing the .357magnum revolvers with .40 S&W.

Good luck,
Jim
 
I do not believe in disputing a man's own experiences, but I do sometimes have a different interpretation of them and more often simply have different experiences. With that caveat, I believe Bill Jordan would have had a hard time with the classification of his ideal fighting revolver as "second rate".

I am well aware of the reported forcing cone issues and the reasons for the development of the L frame. What I am also aware of is the vast majority of documented forcing cone failures having to do with extensive use of lead bullets followed by 125 gr SJHP, the jackets of which pushing their way through a leaded revolver contributing mightily to finding its weak spot in the bottom trimmed forcing cone. Stick with 158's if you want to be conservative or clean and de-lead religiously and I can point out shooters with many thousands of assorted magnums down the pipe of their 19's with no issues.

What in your experience led you to find it second rate? I find the Combat Magnum a true American classic and a fine revolver even with the magnums it was designed for.

Regarding your department's claim of .40 S&W equaling the 125 gr .357;

http://www.speer-ammo.com/ballistics/detail.aspx?loadNo=23920

http://www.speer-ammo.com/ballistics/detail.aspx?loadNo=23961

How do they figure that? Perhaps they meant "close enough"? Which would be highly subjective and imminently debatable depending on circumstance. I am thinking you misstate your case and capacity and economics were greater factors in their decision and they made that claim for the benefit of officer confidence, which is not unwarranted with a good .40 load. It is not however equal. You will need a 10mm to begin making that claim.
 
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A 4" 19-3 around here would get you between $400-$500. Origional nickel in perfect shape -- but no box, and no papers? $650 tops. If your 229 is a base model and was less thn $650, then it might be a fair trade as far as money goes. If I was an $800+ E2 model or some such, then I would hesitate to make an even trade unless I just couldn't live without a nickel 19-3 4"
 
kemper

So did you make the trade or not? What was the determining factor in your final decision?
 
Hey folks,

Got an offer to trade my stainless Sig p229 in 40 caliber
for a S&W Model 19-3 nickel plated with 4" barrel
Gun is reported to be unfired or certainly shot
very little. It does not have the box with it

Does that sound like a decent or fair trade ?
I rarely shoot the Sig and have one 19-5 that I
love, but wouldn't mind having another ?

I'd make the trade in a second! The model 19 is just such a classic!!!
 
Does that sound like a decent or fair trade? I rarely shoot the Sig and have one 19-5 that I love, but wouldn't mind having another ?

Do you HAVE to have the new Model 19? Are you going to regret trading the SIG P229 eventually end up purchasing another one?

Guns have become so expensive after this last round of legislative insanity that you're likely going to lose money on the deal if you get another P229 later. Also consider the spare magazines, holster(s), magazine holder(s) and other gear that will be laying around long after that P229 is gone.

My advice is to not trade the P229 and buy the Model 19.
 
We found it equal in our use of the .40 s&w

rswartsell,

Sorry for not replying before now.

First, my agency had authorized the .357 magnum, the 9m.m. and the .45ACP in privately purchased guns as well as the issue guns which were a mix of a few RUGER SECURITY SIXES and GP-100's plus a large number of S&W 13revolvers with 3 inch barrels and round grips.

The model 13 was what I was issued and when shooting the 110 grain jhp, it was a nice carry gun, but no more powerful than the 9m.m. +P+ loads I was issued for my GLOCK 17, 19 and SIG 226. It was MUCH, MUCH slower to reload and did not have night sights.
Also, my agency had a fair number of problems with the model 13's. My academy class was issued 47 of them and 13 had problems ranging from screws that had been overtightened to plain NON WORKING and LOCKING UP.

I also bought several model 66's for private puchase and carry. They were better than the model 13, but not a lot better.
The best feature of the 3 inch model 13, was its concealability for plain clothes carry.

This qualifies as second rate to me. I considered the GLOCK 17 and 19 and the SIG 226 to all be vastly superior to the S&W 13.

We were not allowed to shoot the 125 grain jhp in these guns after one blew up. No one wanted to shoot the 125 grain jhp anyway as far as I could determine. Recoil was brutal and many of the shooters who were marginal with the 110 grain jhp, would simply not qualify with the 125 grain.

In the model 19's, I fould virtually the same thing, but to a lesser degree. The 110 grain load was acceptable, but offered no advangtage over the 9m.m. +P+ and the 125 grainer was tough to shoot.

For a while, I carried a privately owened S&W 681 and had a nickel plated 581 as a house gun. These are the 4 inch barreled, fixed sight version of the L-frame from S&W. They were MUCH better when firing the 125 grain jhp and I was allowed to carry the 125 grain load and practice with it in my carry gun. I eventually had the gun converted to double action only and MAGNA PORTED after I retired it. With a pair of HOGUE grips, this is my favorite revolver for home defense and combat style shooting.

Yet, it is a still a six shooter and my issued BERETTA 96D was a 12 shooter. I had to stop shooting to reload, but can do a tactical reload with the BERETTA by swapping mags. The BERETTA also had night sigths, so I did not miss my revolvers at all for carry guns.
Also, I added a light to the rail on my BERETTA VERTEC. That is another feature lacking on most revolvers.

As for the .40 S&W being equal to the .357 magnum, it is! Our experience has been that the .40 S&W works very well. We used the 155 grain jhp and I never heard of any complaints and with the number of times it has been used, their would have been if the .40 did not prove equal to the .357.

If the .40 S&W had not worked as well as it did, we probably would have gone to the .357 SIG round, but no one seems interested.

We have now switched to the 135 grain jhp for our .40 caliber H&K's. I would have preferred to stick with the 155 grain load, but the 155 grainer battered the BERETTA and I am not sure how the lighter H&K pistols would have stood up. The 135 grain also recoils less.

That has been my experience with the .357 magnum, 9m.m. and .40 S&W. It is the reason that I have more or less passed up on revolvers for defensive shooting. I use either a 9m.m. or a .40 caliber.

Jim

Jim
 
It's a good trade because like you said you can still buy new Sig 229's.About a year ago I got 19-3 nickeled 4 inch for $375 out the door because somebody gold plated the hammer,trigger and cylinder latch.It sat for about 4 months at my dealer and nobody wanted it so I asked and he gave me a great price so I can live with the gold plating.Gun shoots great and looks great.
 
I'd MUCH rather have the 19 too, They have treated me well, since i bought my first one in about 1971.

DM
 
S&W Mod 19

Can't speak for the trade as that is a value judgement only you can make.

Just purchased a used factory nickle 6" 19-4.

Recessed cylinder, Pinned barrel a real gem and am VERY happy with the purchase.

Think you would be happy too. As they say; they're not making them any more. Get them while you can.:cool:
 
Golden,

It is a fact that;

1. revolvers have less capacity and are slower to reload than bottom feeders

2. for your purposes, you prefer them

3. larger frame revolvers have longer lifespans without requiring maintenance and less perceived recoil firing heavily loaded ammunition than smaller frames assuming same caliber, material and workmanship. Nonetheless many have no problems with either issue using the 19 and prefer the K frame handling characteristics. Each person chooses according to his personal use and capacity.

It is opinion that the problems that your agency encountered with Mod 13s is design flaw or factory related and not perhaps under-qualified armourers as overtightened screws would suggest. IMHO the Combat Magnum has a too long and well documented track record to accept the anecdotal experience of 47 revolvers as gospel confering "second rate" status. The track record suggests the previously mentioned risk of cracking forcing cones under the conditions mentioned and the ability to stretch a frame with MANY heavy magnums, NOT bursting cylinders. Much more would need to be known about the incident related to place fault, but I have NEVER heard of avoiding 125 gr because they will burst a cylinder. I feel there must be more than just the ammo selection to this incident, or your agency is incredibly unlucky.

The degree of the frame stretching is quite often overstated, but it is true that an L or N frame will hold up to long term pounding longer. Every machine wears with use and this is entirely a matter of degree with any handgun. As a practical matter given the level of use most will put on the K frame, you just about have to be trying to beat one to death. I am willing to bet that you will wear out an Airweight J frame with the same magnums well before the K frame. It is just very unlikely that someone will do so, primarily because of their intended use. None of this equates to what "second rate" calls up in my mind such as bad design, materials, workmanship or quality control as can be found with "off brand" revolvers or "Saturday Night Specials". You prefer the L frames as is your right and I cannot fault this as they are indeed fine revolvers (overlooking possible issues one might have with recent quality control, MIM parts and integrated locks). If a man prefers a vintage K frame, I assure you it is not because he has a taste for "second rate".

It is demonstrable fallacy that 9mm and .40 loads mentioned are ballistically equal to .357 125 gr. I'm not saying that they are not sufficient for purpose or cannot be used without complaint, I am saying once again that does not make them ballistically equal. I believe that you are stating that for your purpose they are practically equal, or that you have no need for the difference.
 
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